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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:58 am

So has anyone yet realized how much better Kaka is than Ozil? He pretty much did what Ozil couldn't IMO. Actually show up and make his presence felt in a big game.

What do you guys think?
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Post by McAgger Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:03 am

We all know Kaka is a world class player, he just hasn't shown that form that won him the Balon d'Or with us.....He's getting older and will probably never play as good again, so I have to disagree with you on him being better than Ozil...Last year Ozil showed why he was one of the best AM's in the world. His form might have dipped but Kaka hasn't shown anything special either.
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Post by Omniscient Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:06 am

The one thing I agree with Huntsman on. Ozil is vastly overrated, Kaka somewhat underrated (although people rate him very diversely).

Ozil honestly isn't a player on the same level as Iniesta, Silva, Sneijder, etc. He has some good touches and a wealth of talent, but much more often than not is a peripheral figure in big games and drifts in & out of games constantly. His contribution to games is usually nothing more than a few key passes and sublime pieces of skill which occur every 15 minutes.

Kaka is the type of player Madrid need to play. Fast, great at driving the ball forward, shows up in the biggest games consistently even when injured/"out of form"/injured recently, can beat defenders, and always looks to get involved.

If you look at the recent Clasico, or even the 1-1 at the Camp Nou last year, Kaka has looked great. He's always on the ball, and when running at Barca defenders you can tell that they're somewhat apprehensive, backing off, etc. Ozil doesn't have the same effect. He looks to get in a good position upfield, receive a pass, and try to create a chance. Problem is, if Madrid are being outposessed or outplayed like against Barca, Ozil can't do jack shit to influence the game.

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Post by TheBlueArmy Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:17 am

Omniscient wrote:

Ozil honestly isn't a player on the same level as Iniesta, Silva, Sneijder, etc. He has some good touches and a wealth of talent, but much more often than not is a peripheral figure in big games and drifts in & out of games constantly.His contribution to games is usually nothing more than a few key passes and sublime pieces of skill which occur every 15 minutes.


"Actually show up and make his presence felt in a big game."

WC 2010, 10 goals 24 assists last season for madrid, germany's qualifying run.

This thread is spewing garbage

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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:18 am

TheBlueArmy wrote:
Omniscient wrote:

Ozil honestly isn't a player on the same level as Iniesta, Silva, Sneijder, etc. He has some good touches and a wealth of talent, but much more often than not is a peripheral figure in big games and drifts in & out of games constantly.His contribution to games is usually nothing more than a few key passes and sublime pieces of skill which occur every 15 minutes.


"Actually show up and make his presence felt in a big game."

WC 2010, 10 goals 24 assists last season for madrid, germany's qualifying run.

This thread is spewing garbage


Where is he against Barca, though?
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Post by Guiltybystander Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:19 am

I agree with you guys, and I've said it for a while. Kaka has the presence and stamina Ozil lacks. He should get the chance to show himself again. Ozil is great, perhaps there is a possibility for playing them both at the same time, but the worth of Kaka should REALLY not be underrated. He is something else.
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Post by TheBlueArmy Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:23 am

Lord Hispano wrote:
TheBlueArmy wrote:
Omniscient wrote:

Ozil honestly isn't a player on the same level as Iniesta, Silva, Sneijder, etc. He has some good touches and a wealth of talent, but much more often than not is a peripheral figure in big games and drifts in & out of games constantly.His contribution to games is usually nothing more than a few key passes and sublime pieces of skill which occur every 15 minutes.


"Actually show up and make his presence felt in a big game."

WC 2010, 10 goals 24 assists last season for madrid, germany's qualifying run.

This thread is spewing garbage


Where is he against Barca, though?


Where was ronaldo? 1 game doesn't change the fact that this guy is one of the worlds best AM's. look at his assists alone last year, more than kaka has ever gotten in a single season for madrid or milan.
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Post by VanDeezNuts Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:23 am

Omniscient wrote:The one thing I agree with Huntsman on. Ozil is vastly overrated, Kaka somewhat underrated (although people rate him very diversely).

Ozil honestly isn't a player on the same level as Iniesta, Silva, Sneijder, etc. He has some good touches and a wealth of talent, but much more often than not is a peripheral figure in big games and drifts in & out of games constantly. His contribution to games is usually nothing more than a few key passes and sublime pieces of skill which occur every 15 minutes.

Kaka is the type of player Madrid need to play. Fast, great at driving the ball forward, shows up in the biggest games consistently even when injured/"out of form"/injured recently, can beat defenders, and always looks to get involved.

If you look at the recent Clasico, or even the 1-1 at the Camp Nou last year, Kaka has looked great. He's always on the ball, and when running at Barca defenders you can tell that they're somewhat apprehensive, backing off, etc. Ozil doesn't have the same effect. He looks to get in a good position upfield, receive a pass, and try to create a chance. Problem is, if Madrid are being outposessed or outplayed like against Barca, Ozil can't do jack shit to influence the game.

ozil is 23, hes supposed to be on the same level or even be compared to the players you listed?


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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:25 am

TheBlueArmy wrote:
Where was ronaldo? 1 game doesn't change the fact that this guy is one of the worlds best AM's. look at his assists alone last year, more than kaka has ever gotten in a single season for madrid or milan.

You think I'm defending Ronny? Laughing

Yeah he's the best assister but where does all of that go when he's got Barca up in front of him?
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Post by Omniscient Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:34 am

There's nothing wrong with Ozil's game in the typical La Liga match, in which 70% of the game is spent in the opposing team's final third, trying to find a breakthrough.

Against top teams like Barcelona, where there's actual end-to-end stuff and the teams are trading blows, Ozil fades away into nothingness and has little impact on the match.

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Post by Giovanni10 Tue Dec 13, 2011 8:04 am

PLAY ALL THE AMs!!!! cheers
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Post by The Franchise Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:45 pm

Dont know what you guys saw.

Kaka did nothing..kick and run move on Puyol which still resulted in nothing was his biggest output. He doesnt connect to the midfield at all.

Ozil had a good game vs us, he tried, he had some good moments and at this point is far better than Kaka.
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Post by Le Samourai Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:50 pm

^ I think kaka or Ozil at this point is a question of tactics.

Who looks better really does depend on who we're playing and what system we employ.It's no suprise that this kneejerk opinion came from someone who dosen't watch Madrid every week.

Kaka looked pretty good for me.....it isn't his job or style to string 6 or 7 passes around......he did what he does suprisingly well and gave an encouraging 15 minutes.
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Post by billy_gr Tue Dec 13, 2011 2:57 pm


Sell Ronaldo? Kaka instaed Ozil? A single defeat and so many fans start becoming radical…
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Post by The Franchise Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:28 pm

ragbirjosh wrote:^ I think kaka or Ozil at this point is a question of tactics.

Who looks better really does depend on who we're playing and what system we employ.It's no suprise that this kneejerk opinion came from someone who dosen't watch Madrid every week.

Kaka looked pretty good for me.....it isn't his job or style to string 6 or 7 passes around......he did what he does suprisingly well and gave an encouraging 15 minutes.

Kneejerk? I watch Madrid often...dont know why you would make such an assumption.

It may not not Kaka´s style to pass the ball around, but it clearly hurts because he is too far away from the midfield and because Alonso isnt a ball carrier it makes the passes from him longer and more difficult.

I dont know what you saw in those 15 minutes....what did he do?

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Post by alexander mahone Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:37 pm

So here's the things,

Last game vs barca ->

Kaka:
Made a few good run which didn't work, gave away balls more than good runs he made which one of those initiated barca's third goal, didn't press & track back properly, and made khedira & alonso were suffering.

Ozil:
Caused a goal, pressed, tracked back & won the ball, connected with Lass & linked up with benzema, di maria very well, his 'unnoticable' simple pass actually worked as a start or part of a numbers of successful build ups (at least until it became a goal scoring chance)

Yet some concluded:
-> Kaka looked great, showed up in big game, much better than ozil, did what ozil couldn't? :facepalm:
-> Ozil faded away into nothingness, has no impact on the match, where is he vs barca? Rolling Eyes

Who's overrated & underrated now? Laughing


Last edited by alexander mahone on Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Lord Hades Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:41 pm

honestly us madrid fans are the biggest knee jerkers around and you only have to give some ammunition like this for the guns to go off.
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Post by Le Samourai Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:43 pm

The Franchise wrote:
ragbirjosh wrote:^ I think kaka or Ozil at this point is a question of tactics.

Who looks better really does depend on who we're playing and what system we employ.It's no suprise that this kneejerk opinion came from someone who dosen't watch Madrid every week.

Kaka looked pretty good for me.....it isn't his job or style to string 6 or 7 passes around......he did what he does suprisingly well and gave an encouraging 15 minutes.

Kneejerk? I watch Madrid often...dont know why you would make such an assumption.

It may not not Kaka´s style to pass the ball around, but it clearly hurts because he is too far away from the midfield and because Alonso isnt a ball carrier it makes the passes from him longer and more difficult.

I dont know what you saw in those 15 minutes....what did he do?


was talking about the OP.

I'm not talking about the 15 minutes.........but this season overall has been encouraging......and as I said.....Kaka in pure counter attack right now......so a smooth link between midfield and attack isn't his job description, at least I'm not expecting him to provide a smooth a link as ozil does since he's never been that type of player.

He is recovering .....that much I can see......also he's much faster than I've seen him in a long time.....overall.....he looks very good and could be very very useful......something I was very pessimistic about for the two previous seasons.
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Post by alexander mahone Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:51 pm

And more:

Past games vs barca ->

Kaka:
Looking good in 1 game (a game the team ended up lost), ghosting in second leg CL semi vs barca (he started the game), had little effect came on as sub in super copa second leg

Ozil:
All right he was poor in 5-0 (who wasn't?) & also first leg semi vs barca, but:
He was the game changer in 1-1 clasico home league (came on as sub), it was even the tougher situation because the team losing 1-0 and played 10 man when he came on.
Had good game in final CDR (best attackers until he's subbed out), had very good game in super copa first leg (scored, creating very good chances, solid game in 90')

Yet still some still believe:
-> Kaka the big game player!! much better than ozil, did what ozil couldn't? Shocked
-> Ozil faded away into nothingness, can't do jack shit to influence the game, where was he vs barca? confused

I can't believe if any madrid fan actually think that way :facepalm:


Last edited by alexander mahone on Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by billy_gr Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:54 pm

To be honest I’d have no problems if your board decided to follow this and

a. sell ronaldo
b. b. sideline oezil for kaka

Make it happen!!!!
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Post by Le Samourai Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:01 pm

I would have nooo problems with selling Ronaldo......not because I don't know that he's the 2nd best player in the world and what not.........but we can survive and win without him

and need to get the best price possible from city because FFP is coming banana

Also Jese will get more playing time :hungry:
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Post by ciro1316 Tue Dec 13, 2011 5:26 pm

kaka is on another level what he has lost ozil will never have

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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:24 pm

diptiman wrote:honestly us madrid fans are the biggest knee jerkers around and you only have to give some ammunition like this for the guns to go off.

This wasn't made by a Madrid fan. (Or closet RM fans for that matter)
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Post by The Franchise Tue Dec 13, 2011 6:51 pm

ragbirjosh wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
ragbirjosh wrote:^ I think kaka or Ozil at this point is a question of tactics.

Who looks better really does depend on who we're playing and what system we employ.It's no suprise that this kneejerk opinion came from someone who dosen't watch Madrid every week.

Kaka looked pretty good for me.....it isn't his job or style to string 6 or 7 passes around......he did what he does suprisingly well and gave an encouraging 15 minutes.

Kneejerk? I watch Madrid often...dont know why you would make such an assumption.

It may not not Kaka´s style to pass the ball around, but it clearly hurts because he is too far away from the midfield and because Alonso isnt a ball carrier it makes the passes from him longer and more difficult.

I dont know what you saw in those 15 minutes....what did he do?


was talking about the OP.

I'm not talking about the 15 minutes.........but this season overall has been encouraging......and as I said.....Kaka in pure counter attack right now......so a smooth link between midfield and attack isn't his job description, at least I'm not expecting him to provide a smooth a link as ozil does since he's never been that type of player.

He is recovering .....that much I can see......also he's much faster than I've seen him in a long time.....overall.....he looks very good and could be very very useful......something I was very pessimistic about for the two previous seasons.

My bad.

Anyway, I dont disagree too much with what you say but for me, its already decieded. The Kaka I saw in 07 was a beast and I would bet anything he isnt coming back. I cant recall any player ever falling off like him and coming back to their old levels...it just doesnt happen.
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Post by Valkyrja Tue Dec 13, 2011 9:10 pm

Ozil is other type of player, a classic 10, who grows in play by age. Kaka is more of a SS, lose pace, lose player.
I personally think Ozil will be on the same level as Zidane, but he has to work. He is now discovering his skills, Kaka lost them. That's my opinion.
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