Mano Menezes explains why Marcelo/Hernanes/Hulk are out of the Copa América squad

My gosh, could "mano" talk anymore shit?!

So Mano beleives that the advantages of making an example out of marcelo outweigh including him in the tournament, thats fair enough. Still means he doesnt beleive in his talent alot, which is okay its not like marcelo has ever played competitive games for brazil.

Anyways marcelo belongs to madrid not just by contract but by attachment as well, hes practically learnt everything he knows here. I am glad he knew times were important for his team, unlike a certain kaka. In all honesty I hope he doesnt ever join the brazilian national team. Becoming a star there through winning a title usually spells the end to brazil players.

The Franchise wrote:

Lord Hispano wrote:Samba doesn't work anymore. It's been figured out since 1982. Now you need a balance of all aspects to win a tourney.

How so?

They have played short, fast, combination play with the use of individual players doing magic for years since 82'.

There is a myth that Brazil didnt have balance before now, they always knew how to protect themselves defensively, its by keeping the ball.

The problem is that the wonderful '82 Seleção lost to Italy due to some problems defending.. then in '86 we lost to France on a penalty shootout and in '90 we started to play differently, with a more defensive approach.. then we lost anyway, thanks to maradona at the round of 16.. in 1994, with that defensive approach, we won the WC, but that's because we had players like Romário and Bebeto up front, which we don't now..

Anyway, I do think that you can combine beautiful football and winning titles (Barcelona are there to show it), but it takes a long time, it takes devotion, and mentality... a lot of brazilian stars sometimes start to think that they are bigger than the NT, and therefore don't work as hard as they should.. they take our mythological football for granted..

I think Mano has shown that Brazil could play beautifully (against USA back in August 2010), but since then he hasnt been able to use the players he wants to due to injuries (Ganso and Pato) ..

when he can manage to put a front line consisted of Robinho-Ganso-Neymar and Pato up front, Brazil might play nicely again.. and now we also have Lucas.. and then maybe we should get Marcelo as well, if he changes his attitude, and thus Brazil will start to play better and better..

Yuri Yukuv wrote:So Mano beleives that the advantages of making an example out of marcelo outweigh including him in the tournament, thats fair enough. Still means he doesnt beleive in his talent alot, which is okay its not like marcelo has ever played competitive games for brazil.

Anyways marcelo belongs to madrid not just by contract but by attachment as well, hes practically learnt everything he knows here. I am glad he knew times were important for his team, unlike a certain kaka. In all honesty I hope he doesnt ever join the brazilian national team. Becoming a star there through winning a title usually spells the end to brazil players.

Marcelo belongs to Brazil, he was born in Brazil and raised there, that's where he got his footballing skills from. RM have undoubtedly helped him improve, but to me a NT will always be bigger than a club.

rsinatra wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Lord Hispano wrote:Samba doesn't work anymore. It's been figured out since 1982. Now you need a balance of all aspects to win a tourney.

How so?

They have played short, fast, combination play with the use of individual players doing magic for years since 82'.

There is a myth that Brazil didnt have balance before now, they always knew how to protect themselves defensively, its by keeping the ball.

The problem is that the wonderful '82 Seleção lost to Italy due to some problems defending.. then in '86 we lost to France on a penalty shootout and in '90 we started to play differently, with a more defensive approach.. then we lost anyway, thanks to maradona at the round of 16.. in 1994, with that defensive approach, we won the WC, but that's because we had players like Romário and Bebeto up front, which we don't now..

Anyway, I do think that you can combine beautiful football and winning titles (Barcelona are there to show it), but it takes a long time, it takes devotion, and mentality... a lot of brazilian stars sometimes start to think that they are bigger than the NT, and therefore don't work as hard as they should.. they take our mythological football for granted..

I think Mano has shown that Brazil could play beautifully (against USA back in August 2010), but since then he hasnt been able to use the players he wants to due to injuries (Ganso and Pato) ..

when he can manage to put a front line consisted of Robinho-Ganso-Neymar and Pato up front, Brazil might play nicely again.. and now we also have Lucas.. and then maybe we should get Marcelo as well, if he changes his attitude, and thus Brazil will start to play better and better..

I agree, nothing much to add here.

I will say though, Brazil when seen as playing "more defensive" is looked at in a different way to others teams. For example, in 94' there was a more defensive approach, however you compared to other teams wouldnt call them a defensive team. They was by and large an offensive team who had a bigger defensive mentality then previous years. What I mean is, they are defensive only compared to what they had done previously.

rsinatra wrote:
The problem is that the wonderful '82 Seleção lost to Italy due to some problems defending.. then in '86 we lost to France on a penalty shootout and in '90 we started to play differently, with a more defensive approach.. then we lost anyway, thanks to maradona at the round of 16.. in 1994, with that defensive approach, we won the WC, but that's because we had players like Romário and Bebeto up front, which we don't now..

Anyway, I do think that you can combine beautiful football and winning titles (Barcelona are there to show it), but it takes a long time, it takes devotion, and mentality... a lot of brazilian stars sometimes start to think that they are bigger than the NT, and therefore don't work as hard as they should.. they take our mythological football for granted..

I think Mano has shown that Brazil could play beautifully (against USA back in August 2010), but since then he hasnt been able to use the players he wants to due to injuries (Ganso and Pato) ..

when he can manage to put a front line consisted of Robinho-Ganso-Neymar and Pato up front, Brazil might play nicely again.. and now we also have Lucas.. and then maybe we should get Marcelo as well, if he changes his attitude, and thus Brazil will start to play better and better.

Exactly,+1. Brazil was joy to watch against USA but since then Mano did not have the chance to have Pato and Ganso on the field so we were not able to play like that. To play beautiful football you need the right players. In the Copa America hopefully both Ganso and Pato will be fit and we might see the Selecao light up the tournament with some Joga Bonito.

I just cant understand Marcelo!

rsinatra wrote:

Yuri Yukuv wrote:So Mano beleives that the advantages of making an example out of marcelo outweigh including him in the tournament, thats fair enough. Still means he doesnt beleive in his talent alot, which is okay its not like marcelo has ever played competitive games for brazil.

Anyways marcelo belongs to madrid not just by contract but by attachment as well, hes practically learnt everything he knows here. I am glad he knew times were important for his team, unlike a certain kaka. In all honesty I hope he doesnt ever join the brazilian national team. Becoming a star there through winning a title usually spells the end to brazil players.

Marcelo belongs to Brazil, he was born in Brazil and raised there, that's where he got his footballing skills from. RM have undoubtedly helped him improve, but to me a NT will always be bigger than a club.

Which means that knowing he is the only LB at Real Madrid it would be okay for him to miss a friendly international if he had doubts about his health with the toughest month for his club ahead. Honestly Im very proud of Marcelo he did the right thing.

of course, you are a RM fan*, not a brazilian..



*(or at least you've got mourinho as your sig),

The Franchise wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Lord Hispano wrote:Samba doesn't work anymore. It's been figured out since 1982. Now you need a balance of all aspects to win a tourney.

How so?

They have played short, fast, combination play with the use of individual players doing magic for years since 82'.

There is a myth that Brazil didnt have balance before now, they always knew how to protect themselves defensively, its by keeping the ball.

The problem is that the wonderful '82 Seleção lost to Italy due to some problems defending.. then in '86 we lost to France on a penalty shootout and in '90 we started to play differently, with a more defensive approach.. then we lost anyway, thanks to maradona at the round of 16.. in 1994, with that defensive approach, we won the WC, but that's because we had players like Romário and Bebeto up front, which we don't now..

Anyway, I do think that you can combine beautiful football and winning titles (Barcelona are there to show it), but it takes a long time, it takes devotion, and mentality... a lot of brazilian stars sometimes start to think that they are bigger than the NT, and therefore don't work as hard as they should.. they take our mythological football for granted..

I think Mano has shown that Brazil could play beautifully (against USA back in August 2010), but since then he hasnt been able to use the players he wants to due to injuries (Ganso and Pato) ..

when he can manage to put a front line consisted of Robinho-Ganso-Neymar and Pato up front, Brazil might play nicely again.. and now we also have Lucas.. and then maybe we should get Marcelo as well, if he changes his attitude, and thus Brazil will start to play better and better..

I agree, nothing much to add here.

I will say though, Brazil when seen as playing "more defensive" is looked at in a different way to others teams. For example, in 94' there was a more defensive approach, however you compared to other teams wouldnt call them a defensive team. They was by and large an offensive team who had a bigger defensive mentality then previous years. What I mean is, they are defensive only compared to what they had done previously.

True.. and I wonder how it would've been if Raí hadnt been injured, he was set to be one of our stars that year..

What do you think of Dunga's Brazil, as compared to Parreira's '94's squad?

Why Mano just didn't say he doesn't rate Marcelo and feels he isn't Brasilian NT material. That makes way more sense than the "Something like that" sh1t speech. In fact, I'll maybe willing to accept such a fact considering Brasil had Roberto Carlos and Junior running down the left flank...

rsinatra wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

rsinatra wrote:

The Franchise wrote:

Lord Hispano wrote:Samba doesn't work anymore. It's been figured out since 1982. Now you need a balance of all aspects to win a tourney.

How so?

They have played short, fast, combination play with the use of individual players doing magic for years since 82'.

There is a myth that Brazil didnt have balance before now, they always knew how to protect themselves defensively, its by keeping the ball.

The problem is that the wonderful '82 Seleção lost to Italy due to some problems defending.. then in '86 we lost to France on a penalty shootout and in '90 we started to play differently, with a more defensive approach.. then we lost anyway, thanks to maradona at the round of 16.. in 1994, with that defensive approach, we won the WC, but that's because we had players like Romário and Bebeto up front, which we don't now..

Anyway, I do think that you can combine beautiful football and winning titles (Barcelona are there to show it), but it takes a long time, it takes devotion, and mentality... a lot of brazilian stars sometimes start to think that they are bigger than the NT, and therefore don't work as hard as they should.. they take our mythological football for granted..

I think Mano has shown that Brazil could play beautifully (against USA back in August 2010), but since then he hasnt been able to use the players he wants to due to injuries (Ganso and Pato) ..

when he can manage to put a front line consisted of Robinho-Ganso-Neymar and Pato up front, Brazil might play nicely again.. and now we also have Lucas.. and then maybe we should get Marcelo as well, if he changes his attitude, and thus Brazil will start to play better and better..

I agree, nothing much to add here.

I will say though, Brazil when seen as playing "more defensive" is looked at in a different way to others teams. For example, in 94' there was a more defensive approach, however you compared to other teams wouldnt call them a defensive team. They was by and large an offensive team who had a bigger defensive mentality then previous years. What I mean is, they are defensive only compared to what they had done previously.

True.. and I wonder how it would've been if Raí hadnt been injured, he was set to be one of our stars that year..

What do you think of Dunga's Brazil, as compared to Parreira's '94's squad?

I cant remember 94 anything like as detailed needed to compare, I was 8 years old and nothing is clear outside certain individuals. Cant remember how they function exactly.

In my opinion there was nothing wrong with Dunga team fundamentally, for me, they were the best team, they just didnt get the luck plus Melo did stupidity.

It went against their philosophy though, so maybe luck just wasnt even going to be with them.

I will say this, in 94' they had some individuals, such as Romario who was a real superstar, which Dunga's Brazil didnt quite have. Picking the best player of Dunga's team isnt really an easy task, perhaps Robinho? Fabiano was very effective, but not the best player I dont think...defenders can only do so much when your an offensive team and Kaka wasnt the Kaka of Milan.

I think Brazil's 94 team might be better, but I cant really say with any certainty.

I dont understand, all the RM and Marcelo fans here were saying that the exams confirmed Marcelo's injury, but I've just found a Brazilian article from March, before the Scotland friendly, that says that the exams showed nothing lol, and that still Marcelo complained about the pain and left.

Funny, isn't? (in Portuguese)

a random brazilian article over the official website, great

Yeah Rsinatra, could have put up the article as a link unless you read it in a newspaper...

rsinatra wrote:of course, you are a RM fan*, not a brazilian..



*(or at least you've got mourinho as your sig),

This honestly comes down to how much mano rates marcelo, if he rated him highly he would not have send him back. Anyways a person who doesnt stand with the establishment hes been with since 17 in the time of need will not stand with his country in the time of need.

halamadrid2 wrote:a random brazilian article over the official website, great

Doc wrote:Yeah Rsinatra, could have put up the article as a link unless you read it in a newspaper...

lol, how about you two click on "funny isnt it?" which clearly is the link i posted. it is in portuguese.

and it wasnt a random brazilian article, it was globoesporte.com, one of the biggest in brazil... and back then they would have no reason to suddenly lie about it..

lol at madrid fans

Yuri Yukuv wrote:Anyways a person who doesnt stand with the establishment hes been with since 17 in the time of need will not stand with his country in the time of need.

is that some sort of rule you just made up? it is very difficult to understand what you mean.

It means he had a choice to make and I believe he made the right one, it shows strength of character and good judgement of his situation. Its something brazilians and madridistas should be proud of. If there are any temporary repercussions then so bo it.

brazil medics-marcelo wasnt injured
RM-marcelo was injured

honestly,there is no reason for mano to be lying

Hulk,
should have got a call up but he hasnt really played for brazil enough to hold down a spot

Hernanes,
good player, should have been called up

Marcelo,
Mano....your a f**king idiot

BiasedMilanFan3 wrote:Hulk,
should have got a call up but he hasnt really played for brazil enough to hold down a spot

Hernanes,
good player, should have been called up

Marcelo,
Mano....your a f**king idiot

Hulk: Hulk is not a pure CF, if Mano took Hulk Robinho would have to be replaced. Now, Hulk had a better season than Robinho BY FAR but experience counts in tournaments like these and Robinho has far more experience than Hulk.

Hernanes: Read the OP and you will see that Mano is a great admirer of Hernanes but unfortunately he does not fit in Mano's formation.

Marcelo: Got what was coming to him. Hopefully he has learnt his lesson

The door is still wide open for these players to return after Copa America.

Yuri Yukuv wrote:

rsinatra wrote:of course, you are a RM fan*, not a brazilian..



*(or at least you've got mourinho as your sig),

This honestly comes down to how much mano rates marcelo, if he rated him highly he would not have send him back. Anyways a person who doesnt stand with the establishment hes been with since 17 in the time of need will not stand with his country in the time of need.

Its one of the stupidest thing to do as a player to choose club over countryif this is true.What if Mourinho gets the sack next year and the new coach doesnt rate Marcelo and dumps him.He is not a certainty to play for Madrid his whole career.

EVen leaving all these aside someone choosing club over country is disgusting even if its for a single match.He never deserves to wear that shirt again if he doesnt value it much IMO.At least this is what i would say if he is from my country.

BeautifulGame wrote:

Its one of the stupidest thing to do as a player to choose club over countryif this is true.What if Mourinho gets the sack next year and the new coach doesnt rate Marcelo and dumps him.He is not a certainty to play for Madrid his whole career.

exactly, a player's relationship with his club is usually so uncertain.. once you're sold, you're probably not coming back... as for a NT, you can have 3 bad years (like Ronaldinho) and then get your chance again (Dinho didnt take it!)....

milanista99 wrote:

BiasedMilanFan3 wrote:Hulk,
should have got a call up but he hasnt really played for brazil enough to hold down a spot

Hernanes,
good player, should have been called up

Marcelo,
Mano....your a f**king idiot

Hulk: Hulk is not a pure CF, if Mano took Hulk Robinho would have to be replaced. Now, Hulk had a better season than Robinho BY FAR but experience counts in tournaments like these and Robinho has far more experience than Hulk.

Hernanes: Read the OP and you will see that Mano is a great admirer of Hernanes but unfortunately he does not fit in Mano's formation.

Marcelo: Got what was coming to him. Hopefully he has learnt his lesson

The door is still wide open for these players to return after Copa America.

Catracho made a good point that, Hulk was great, at the Portuguese league, while Robinho (besides his experience) did well at the Serie A which is supposedly tougher...

Ganso wrote:brazil medics-marcelo wasnt injured
RM-marcelo was injured

honestly,there is no reason for mano to be lying

it seems to me that RM fans will never accept that.

Ganso wrote:brazil medics-marcelo wasnt injured
RM-marcelo was injured

honestly,there is no reason for mano to be lying

That means he got injured in the plane

Still discussing this issue! Marcelo didn't fake any injury, the guy was wetting his pants at the thought of playing for the national team after a long hiatus, he had a collision with a player during training which resulted in a bruised rib, the Brazilian Medical team decided not to risk him for the friendly against Scotland! Big deal!

According to the Madrid Medical team, this was confirmed by MRI scan, which meant he had to be out of action for about 2 weeks, thus missing a game which Madrid lost at home, the first in 9 years for Mourinho.

I still don't get why every Brazil fan has ganged up on Marcelo accusing him of choosing club over country. He has done no such thing, and I expect Menezes to come out and apologize to both Madrid and the player, or bring to public the said email and the other evidences to support his case. Leave Marcelo alone, he doesn't deserve all the negative comments after the season he had!