Post Match Conclusions/Thoughts

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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:40 pm

-Chiellini man of the match, hands down.
-Lichtsteiner got his crossing together, was very threatening.
-I really do not like a 4-2-3-1 formation at all, in the first half it was evident, very little chances, little Matri involvement and little from Vucinic. In the second half this did change.
-Simone Pepe scored, it was a well taken goal but the defending was horrid and lets be real, apart from the goal what did he do? Not trying to hate but honestly, he was pretty anonymous
-The midfield, at the end of the game, was looking quite tired and this is worrying because there are no sound replacements on the bench, this position needs to be reinforced.
-Leonardo Bonucci is a hit and miss player, today he missed, flop of the match for me.
-Buffon is a God among men
-I giggled like a school girl when Quagliagol came on, I wanted to cry. WELCOME BACK FABIO, please stay a while

Your list/discuss mine;
GO

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:50 pm

Chiellini man of the match? I got to disagree. Yes, he made the cross for Pepe, and yes he was defensively good. However when Palermo went on the counter, Chiellini made some silly mistakes. Even when we went on the counter, he made some sloppy plays and messed up many passes if you ask me. A fullback should be able to provide better. Nonetheless amazing performance in the back and great work for the player.

Lichstiener deserves credit today, played finally a great offensive game. Got through his marker many times, gave a great ball for Matri. However in general, most of his crosses were blocked or way far from the players in the box.

Let's not forget that a 4-2-3-1 is bascially a 4-3-3 they shift to either or depending on space and what situations is going on the pitch.

Pepe did score, however was very clumsy through out the game not to mention was very quiet. Lost the ball way to many times, made some useless runs and other than the goal did not provide the ball as much as he did in the past. Not his best game, just average.

The midfield... Marchisio is my man of the match, another goal for him with 5 goals leading Juve with Matri in goals. Won many balls, worked his ass off, and was all over the pitch. Pirlo was a god in midfield and was able to spread play with ease, great movements and almost scored his first goal, but sadly hit off the post. Vidal was good out there, fought hard, but didn't quite find himself in the game mostly. Saw most of him at the end, when Marchisio came off.

Bonucci... worst player on the pitch. Great defensively, horrible offensively. Gave the ball away to many times. He needs to stop with his useless long balls and needs to start training this skill at Vinovo.

Buffon is back, and better than ever. With Illic in great form he made him look like puppet with his amazing diving save and his presnese with Illic on the break.

Quagliarella had a nice chance to score and did very well within his performance. For a guy who hardly played, proved why he should. Great runs, great determination.
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:53 pm

Chiellini's mistakes did not bother me going forward
He was a ROCK at the back, broke up many plays and had great interceptions

Marchisio is worthy as well

Yeah I see what you mean about the 4-2-3-1 pretty much being a 4-3-3 at times but you can see the struggles when it is not

I mean in the first half

Matri isolated up top
Vucinic far out to the left, too far

As a result, both of them suffered

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:59 pm

The problem with Matri was, he wasn't getting enough support. He found the open space he needed and he made his runs. However he just couldn't connect with the supply he got. Yes, I would agree though, in the first half, Matri was most of the time forced to play wide because he was closed in very well. However he still managed to pull through and worked hard up front. At times you saw more Marchisio, Vidal and Pepe in the box and not Matri. Vucinic didn't really do much to help Matri's case as Vucinic didn't seem motivated, if you ask me, Vucinic on the wing had lots of space, just didn't capatlize on his end product. That is why, I believe if we need a creator in that position, if wuold be better to have Elia over Vucinic and Vucinic playing more of the seconda punta instead.
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:04 pm

Definitely agree
Vucinic came alive in the second half, man I love him lol when he wants to he is magical.
Matri thrives off a strike partner, it is about creating the most chances and being effective, Matri up front alone is not as effective as him with Vucinic or whatever.

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Post by JuvenelCuore Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:05 pm

My list, personally:

I. Agree with the point about Giorgio Chiellini. Wonderful cross to Pepe for the opening and decisive goal was the cherry on top of a solid defensive performance.

II. Stephen Lichsteiner was very dangerous and tracked back well, in addition. He got past a few players at one point and nearly put in a cross but it went for a corner [I am sure you saw it, Luca]. He was very pinpoint accurate.

III. Agree about the first half inactivity, though I did like the change in the second half.

IV. Juventus's pressing was phenomenal today. Every player bar Simone Pepe, oddly enough, really got in there and forced some challenges...even Pirlo did at one point.

V. Claudio Marchisio is Juventus's breakthrough player this season by far and it is great to see him kick it into gear with tireless defending and great attacking to boot. He missed a few shots horribly wide it has to be said, but he is clutch when it matters.

VI. Mirko Vučinić impressed me today. He had a lot of chances and he should have scored. Did well to assist Claudio Marchisio, though I credit Alessandro Matri with the finta more than Mirko Vučinić.

VII. Leonardo Bonucci for me played pretty well, but I did not focus on him too much. Know he gave away a foul on Fabrizio Miccoli dangerously close to the box, but luckily it hit the wall on the way up.

VIII. The best part about this game, for me, was the fact that Fabio Quagliarella came on, and I will just list some points.

i. It is evident he is not at full fitness yet, given the fact after a few minutes he went down clutching his knee.
ia. I am somewhat glad...not happy in terms of his injury, but glad to see that Antonio Conte did not play him because of fitness, not because of personal preference or anything.

ii. He still has it; he had a nice raso terra shot that went just wide, and he also was pretty good on the ball, passing it around nicely, but he is not at the level he was last year, which is understandable considering he has played only about twenty-twenty five minutes since January, in a competitive Serie A match.

IX. Gianluigi Buffon for me is back to being the hero I have come to know and love. The save on Josip Iličić was Godly; he saved the game there in my opinion when he was left out, which leads me to my next point.

X. The defence was solid, to say the least, but I find that in all games, not just this one, they make a mistake of two that are brutal to the point where they could potentially/have led to goals. The defence needs to be able to track back a bit more as I feel that sometimes Giorgio Chiellini and Stephen Lichtsteiner do come up a bit too much and play offensively, and may neglect their positions, though this is mainly Stephen Lichsteiner I am finding.

In conclusion, superb match and one of the best displays this season. With that said, however, Palermo have not won a game away from home, so the real test v. Palermo comes when Juventus are away at Stadio Renzo Barbera, where they have had consecutive victories.

Glad to see today that Juventus have regained their first league position along with Lazio [22 points], but it should be noted that Juventus still have a game in hand v. Napoli the 29 of November, so that is a must win. Also glad to see Parma beat Udinese, so they helped out immensely in stunting Udinese's form of brilliance.

The team must not get complacent; they played extraordinary, but Juventus have tough back-to-back fixtures v. Lazio [at Stadio Olimpico] and v. Napoli [at San Paolo] and both of these are very decisive. As aforementioned, Lazio are in first and Napoli are Scudetto challengers, so in order to break away from the herd, Juventus need to capitalize.

I have a lot of my mind, evidently. :coffee:

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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:07 pm

With you on all points
Fabio Quagliarella entering the game was incredible!

Also, Juventus has Lazio next week away- that is such a decisive match

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:10 pm

Luca wrote:Definitely agree
Vucinic came alive in the second half, man I love him lol when he wants to he is magical.
Matri thrives off a strike partner, it is about creating the most chances and being effective, Matri up front alone is not as effective as him with Vucinic or whatever.

That's my issue with Vucinic, yes he's a great player. However his motivation ticks me off a lot. I find him very lazy at times and he just lacks the morale to boost himself up. I don't know, for some reason... when he wants too, he can be the best in the world, when he dosen't... it's like he's on another planet. They need to find away, him and Conte to give more of that motivation. His inconsitency, is what the Romanisti warned me about.

You see, the problem with Matri though is that, he needs about 5-6 chances to score a goal. Granted, today he did score in his first chance, but that rarely happens. And without the proper support Matri will not be able to score. But speaking of Matri... great game again. Great start so far for himself.

In his last 4 games.

4 goals and 3 assists.(Give him credit also for his dummy with Marchisio). Both him and Marchisio link up very well. Even with Inter, the one-two and now this.

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Post by JuvenelCuore Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:12 pm

Luca wrote:With you on all points
Fabio Quagliarella entering the game was incredible!

Also, Juventus has Lazio next week away- that is such a decisive match

Yes, I agree; both matches last year were won very, very late on in the dying embers courtesy of a rare Sissoko cross to Krasic in the 94', and Simone Pepe scoring in the >85' I believe. :coffee:
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:12 pm

I think when Conte tries to put him in a strict position like in the first half when he is isolated on the left wing he hides in his shell like a turtle

He needs to be allowed to float, like in the second half when he even switched to the right side at times
When he is allowed to float, he dictates the play so much better

He is similar to Krasic in that sense, Krasic needs to be allowed freedom to succeed

The stricter the tactics, the worse both Krasic and Vucinic play

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:18 pm

Luca wrote:I think when Conte tries to put him in a strict position like in the first half when he is isolated on the left wing he hides in his shell like a turtle

He needs to be allowed to float, like in the second half when he even switched to the right side at times
When he is allowed to float, he dictates the play so much better

He is similar to Krasic in that sense, Krasic needs to be allowed freedom to succeed

The stricter the tactics, the worse both Krasic and Vucinic play

Could be, but I would keep it strict. Or else, if we give many players freedom, it may not go so well. Vucinic is a very tactical player who can play in various positions, just like in the left wing. Not his best position, but can get the job done nonetheless. In the first half, he failed to do so... with Balzaretti covering and closing him down very well. That is once again, why I would prefer Elia, as Elia is a perfectionist in that role over Vucinic.
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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:18 pm

+ 1 Nick. I completely agree with everything.
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:22 pm

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:
Luca wrote:I think when Conte tries to put him in a strict position like in the first half when he is isolated on the left wing he hides in his shell like a turtle

He needs to be allowed to float, like in the second half when he even switched to the right side at times
When he is allowed to float, he dictates the play so much better

He is similar to Krasic in that sense, Krasic needs to be allowed freedom to succeed

The stricter the tactics, the worse both Krasic and Vucinic play

Could be, but I would keep it strict. Or else, if we give many players freedom, it may not go so well. Vucinic is a very tactical player who can play in various positions, just like in the left wing. Not his best position, but can get the job done nonetheless. In the first half, he failed to do so... with Balzaretti covering and closing him down very well. That is once again, why I would prefer Elia, as Elia is a perfectionist in that role over Vucinic.

Thats true, but having Matri strictly as a prima punta and Pepe strictly as this offensive- defensive enigma of a winger (LOL) Juventus can afford to let Vucinic float, that is if you want the best from him
We saw it in the second half, more freedom and he was magical
Holding up the ball, creating an assist, a couple good attempts from range
Not much more to ask from him, would have been nice for him to score

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Post by JuvenelCuore Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:23 pm

Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:+ 1 Nick. I completely agree with everything.

Cheers Antonio, do you still have the same opinion of Pepe now ? Razz

You probably do. :coffee:
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:24 pm

Me and Antonio both share a fiery dislike for Pepe :coffee:

really I just dislike the fact that he benches my Milos :dance:

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:25 pm

Oh yeah for sure, if we ONLY give Vucninc freedom then I would agree. But then again, I'd still prefer Elia in that role.
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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:26 pm

JuvenelCuore wrote:
Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo wrote:+ 1 Nick. I completely agree with everything.

Cheers Antonio, do you still have the same opinion of Pepe now ? Razz

You probably do. :coffee:

I give credit for his goal, but overall, not that much.
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:28 pm

You mean, Elia as a LW but Vucinic is still starting alongside Matri?


Vucinic-Matri
Elia-Pirlo-Marchisio-Pepe
Chiellini-Barzagli-Bonucci-Lichtsteiner
Buffon

Would not mind seeing a 4-4-2 like that
I love Vidal, the only reason I am suggesting this formation (for a short time) is to try and rest one of Juventus' key midfielders, I really am afraid that Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio are going to burn out

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Post by JuvenelCuore Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:29 pm

Luca wrote:You mean, Elia as a LW but Quagliarella is still starting alongside Matri?


Quagliarella-Matri
Elia-Pirlo-Marchisio-Pepe
Chiellini-Barzagli-Bonucci-Lichtsteiner
Buffon

Fixed. :coffee:
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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:30 pm

Luca wrote:You mean, Elia as a LW but Vucinic is still starting alongside Matri?


Vucinic-Matri
Elia-Pirlo-Marchisio-Pepe
Chiellini-Barzagli-Bonucci-Lichtsteiner
Buffon

Would not mind seeing a 4-4-2 like that
I love Vidal, the only reason I am suggesting this formation (for a short time) is to try and rest one of Juventus' key midfielders, I really am afraid that Pirlo, Vidal and Marchisio are going to burn out

No.

Marchisio - Pirlo - Vidal

Vucinic - Matri - Elia

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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:33 pm

JuvenelCuore wrote:
Luca wrote:You mean, Elia as a LW but Quagliarella is still starting alongside Matri?


Quagliarella-Matri
Elia-Pirlo-Marchisio-Pepe
Chiellini-Barzagli-Bonucci-Lichtsteiner
Buffon

Fixed. :coffee:

Quagliagol will get his, him and Mirko can co-exist
I would love to see them play together, such dynamism :bow: :bow: :bow:

@Antonio
Vucinic on the right? he best be floating in that case
I think Conte must look to alternatives to those 3 midfielders
There are like 6 wingers on the bench first of all
Second of all, they cannot keep this pace for the whole season, no chance in hell

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:34 pm

Thats why I said recently, we only should rely on four wingers.
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:39 pm

Well, yeah
I assume Krasic is already gone so that is one less and the best one out
That helps somewhat about the rotation but still

Marchisio
Pirlo
Vidal

How many games do you think you can get from them at the TOP level?
Especially when dickface Prandelli plays them both the entire game for friendlies. I like Prandelli, I'm just kidding but still, bastard could have let them sit.

Then you have
Alex
Quagliagol
Matri
Vucinic
and now Iaquinta who I pray does not enter the thick of things as well as Toni

Wingers
Pepe
Giaccherini
Krasic
Elia
Estigarribia

Midfield
Pirlo
Marchisio
Vidal
Pazienza
Marrone

The position Juventus relies on the MOST has the least depth :facepalm:
The defense is nearly as bad when you look at the LB spot, Motta is behind Lichtsteiner and Sorensen that poor young man is sitting on the bench wasting his life.

The signings have been disastrous in this sense, but you must blame Conte to an extent. He requested 5-6 wingers, and then Pirlo's immense form, paired with Marchisio and Vidal made him change his mind tactically.
He shifted from this team that is wing play dependent as a 4-2-4 would be, to a team that is Pirlo dependent.

This would not be a problem as much if the right cover existed but there is 5 CMS and 3 start.
There is 6 wingers and 1 starts (I don't count Vucinic)

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Post by Camurrìa.Sto.Stronzo Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:45 pm

Exactly, and that being said.

With Giovinco(most probably coming).

Estigarribia and Giaccherini will go back.
Krasic will most probably leave.

That's already three wingers gone.
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Post by Luca Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:47 pm

Thats for next season though
Juventus need to address this CM problem asap

I would bring in Verratti as a vice Pirlo and call up Gabriel Appelt
Cheap, quality, young

Sell Krasic since it is inevitable
Sell Amauri
Sell Iaquinta

Acquire class LB

win

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