Could Balotelli Break Riva's Record?

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:

Well we are technically talking about Italian players here, but since you brought up Pato, yes he scored 24 goals before the age of 20, so he does qualify. However, Pato was for all intents and purposes a full time player with Milan those 2 years, whereas Balotelli was a sub for Inter, so Pato played alot more minutes than Balotelli did before the age of 20.

A good point you make Gigi. However you could use this against Balo as well when comparing him to Baggio, Totti and Del Piero. How much exposure a talent gets early in his career is very much influenced by the conditions/situation he finds himself in.

In the case of Pato vs Balo situations , how much of role did his ( Balo ) character and behavior play into him being demoted as a sub player. Pato did indeed become a full time player only because he applied himself to the task better and the fact that he has never stopped working on improving and the results show that.

And you know what, if it wasn't for the injuries, Paro would certainly be considered a world class player today and one of the top strikers in the world, would he not?? So your argument, although valid to some degree, is pretty much irrelevant because a healthy Pato is indeed a world class player...

I would not claim him to be WC player even if he was healthy, he still has much to prove.

spot on. based on pure talent to say Balotelli is nothing short of Italy's most skilled attacker is a fair statement, but that does not translate onto paper if the consistency and results do not.

@Il_Pinguino: Rossi is worldclass.

Anyone who watches football knows that.

JuvenelCuore wrote:@Il_Pinguino: Rossi is worldclass.

Anyone who watches football knows that.

You obviously do not watch football then lol. Go make a poll in any section of this forum or of any forum for that matter.

You do know what world class means, right?

Rossi cannot be claimed as WC for the following reasons

1. He has never won anything on the elite lvl , club or country.

2. He isn't and wasn't considered the best in his position at all, during his career so far.

3. So far in his career he has only had 1 really outstanding season. Whereas other true WC players have half a decade of WC seasons.

4. He is not playing at a higher/same lvl than his peers , which is Eto, Villa , Ibra , Rooney.

5. He is currently sidelined with a serious injury, and thus it must still be determined whether he can get to the same lvl he was playing at last season or crucially if he can get better.

He doesn't meet any of the requirements to be regarded as WC, except in the Talent division, which many players out there fulfills as well.

JuvenelCuore wrote:@Il_Pinguino: Rossi is worldclass.

Anyone who watches football knows that.

http://raeesm.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/defining-world-class-in-a-football-sense/

Must have missed that...phew

And just for future reference, facepalm and espresso smileys don't make you right... Instead of just making a statement and following it up with an indirect insult why not elaborate on the topic and explain why you believe Rossi is world class? You honestly need to drop the arrogance from every post its getting old.

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:Rossi cannot be claimed as WC for the following reasons

1. He has never won anything on the elite lvl , club or country.

2. He isn't and wasn't considered the best in his position at all, during his career so far.

3. So far in his career he has only had 1 really outstanding season. Whereas other true WC players have half a decade of WC seasons.

4. He is not playing at a higher/same lvl than his peers , which is Eto, Villa , Ibra , Rooney.

5. He is currently sidelined with a serious injury, and thus it must still be determined whether he can get to the same lvl he was playing at last season or crucially if he can get better.

He doesn't meet any of the requirements to be regarded as WC, except in the Talent division, which many players out there fulfills as well.

Well put...stole the words outta my mouth lol

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:

Well we are technically talking about Italian players here, but since you brought up Pato, yes he scored 24 goals before the age of 20, so he does qualify. However, Pato was for all intents and purposes a full time player with Milan those 2 years, whereas Balotelli was a sub for Inter, so Pato played alot more minutes than Balotelli did before the age of 20.

A good point you make Gigi. However you could use this against Balo as well when comparing him to Baggio, Totti and Del Piero. How much exposure a talent gets early in his career is very much influenced by the conditions/situation he finds himself in.

In the case of Pato vs Balo situations , how much of role did his ( Balo ) character and behavior play into him being demoted as a sub player. Pato did indeed become a full time player only because he applied himself to the task better and the fact that he has never stopped working on improving and the results show that.

And you know what, if it wasn't for the injuries, Paro would certainly be considered a world class player today and one of the top strikers in the world, would he not?? So your argument, although valid to some degree, is pretty much irrelevant because a healthy Pato is indeed a world class player...

I would not claim him to be WC player even if he was healthy, he still has much to prove.

I would say if 100% healthy and in form, Pato is indeed world class. I don't think there are too many strikers better than Pato when he is 100%. Maybe Rooney, Eto, Villa, Cavani and Tevez (when he's in form). That's it. I would actually take Pato over Ibra to be honest. He has demonstrated at such a young age that he is a multi-talented wonder kid. He can play both as an SS and a CF (much like Balotelli), but is better suited as a CF, whereas I like Balotelli as an SS because of his skill with the ball.

In any event, you are correct in that Pato has applied himself much more in his short career than Balotelli. Balotelli's personality has hindered his growth and can still destroy his potential if he is not careful. However, if he keeps his attitude and behaviour in check and is brought back to Italy at one of the big clubs, I don't see any reason why Balotelli cannot become one of the best players in the world and a future Azzurri legend.

JuvenelCuore wrote:@Il_Pinguino: Rossi is worldclass.

Anyone who watches football knows that.

Balotelli > Rossi...

Pato > Rossi...

It is hard to say whether Rossi is world class or not because he is a tweener SS/CF, much like Quagliarella. Rossi's best position is as a central striker, however he is too small to be dominant at that position. So I would say that Rossi is NOT world class by definition. He may never be as he doesn't have a defined position really, but could still be a very good player throughout his career and add value to Gli Azzurri.

Hopefully, he can recover fully from his injury, he is still young so there is hope that he can fully recover and resume his career without much downside.

To be honest, I can careless if Pato did more, he was given more chances. Balotelli had guys like Milito and Eto'o in his way and yet made a name for himself. He left Inter for 30m, at the age of 19... just goes to show how good he is.

At the end of the day, Balotelli is more of a complete striker compared to Pato. Within hieght, strenght, pace, Agility, dribbling, technical and dynamics.

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:Rossi cannot be claimed as WC for the following reasons

1. He has never won anything on the elite lvl , club or country.

2. He isn't and wasn't considered the best in his position at all, during his career so far.

3. So far in his career he has only had 1 really outstanding season. Whereas other true WC players have half a decade of WC seasons.

4. He is not playing at a higher/same lvl than his peers , which is Eto, Villa , Ibra , Rooney.

5. He is currently sidelined with a serious injury, and thus it must still be determined whether he can get to the same lvl he was playing at last season or crucially if he can get better.

He doesn't meet any of the requirements to be regarded as WC, except in the Talent division, which many players out there fulfills as well.

1. Since when did winning things at club level mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean Pinto on Barcelona is better than Buffon ?

2. He was third highest scorer in La Liga behind Ronaldo and Messi. Since when did being the best in your position mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean there are only eleven worldclass players ? Hardly. Being the best is very different from being worldclass, and I am claiming the latter, not the former.

3. He was worldclass last season and that is what I look at. People consider Neymar worldclass and he is 19.

4. He could have made any team he wanted to. Barcelona were interested, as were Juventus, as were Tottenham, and I am sure if he was made available, nearly every club in need of a striker would try to secure his services.

5. Yes, he is injured, but I am claiming he is worldclass up until this point. He was worldclass last season and showed similar form only to be sidelined, meaning I will wait and see, but up until now, he is worldclass.

That is certain.

Il Pinguino wrote:

JuvenelCuore wrote:@Il_Pinguino: Rossi is worldclass.

Anyone who watches football knows that.

http://raeesm.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/defining-world-class-in-a-football-sense/

Must have missed that...phew

And just for future reference, facepalm and espresso smileys don't make you right... Instead of just making a statement and following it up with an indirect insult why not elaborate on the topic and explain why you believe Rossi is world class? You honestly need to drop the arrogance from every post its getting old.

I was genuinely concerned you had beaten me in this case, but then I went to the site, saw it was a blog and opinionated probably by one of your little friends, and now I am ashamed I granted you the benefit of the doubt.

Hope you are happy.

winning things matter but when you are one of the top players of your club.

Rossi is great player and few are better than him in world as SS atm.

the only thing he is missing atm is the transfer to a top club and keep his performance the same or higher with his new club.then he can consider World Class.

Goals are fine but guys in Spain defenses are a joke and thats why people score so many goals there.

eddy wrote:winning things matter but when you are one of the top players of your club.

Rossi is great player and few are better than him in world as SS atm.

the only thing he is missing atm is the transfer to a top club and keep his performance the same or higher with his new club.then he can consider World Class.

Goals are fine but guys in Spain defenses are a joke and thats why people score so many goals there.

He managed to prove the doubters wrong by scoring many goals on the international level as well.

JuvenelCuore wrote:

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:Rossi cannot be claimed as WC for the following reasons

1. He has never won anything on the elite lvl , club or country.

2. He isn't and wasn't considered the best in his position at all, during his career so far.

3. So far in his career he has only had 1 really outstanding season. Whereas other true WC players have half a decade of WC seasons.

4. He is not playing at a higher/same lvl than his peers , which is Eto, Villa , Ibra , Rooney.

5. He is currently sidelined with a serious injury, and thus it must still be determined whether he can get to the same lvl he was playing at last season or crucially if he can get better.

He doesn't meet any of the requirements to be regarded as WC, except in the Talent division, which many players out there fulfills as well.

1. Since when did winning things at club level mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean Pinto on Barcelona is better than Buffon ?

2. He was third highest scorer in La Liga behind Ronaldo and Messi. Since when did being the best in your position mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean there are only eleven worldclass players ? Hardly. Being the best is very different from being worldclass, and I am claiming the latter, not the former.

3. He was worldclass last season and that is what I look at. People consider Neymar worldclass and he is 19.

4. He could have made any team he wanted to. Barcelona were interested, as were Juventus, as were Tottenham, and I am sure if he was made available, nearly every club in need of a striker would try to secure his services.

5. Yes, he is injured, but I am claiming he is worldclass up until this point. He was worldclass last season and showed similar form only to be sidelined, meaning I will wait and see, but up until now, he is worldclass.

That is certain.

1. No. But that does mean Villa is better than Rossi.
2. Doesn't matter if we has third best in la liga. world class means you would make a world team of 23 players. on a team of 23 players, there are what, 5 strikers? thats being generous too. Rossi is not a top 5 striker in the world.
3.Neymar aint world class either, I'm seeing a trend here. I think the problem is the misuse of the word.
4.No, just because clubs are rumored interested that doesnt mean he could have gone anywhere. There is a reason he wasnt bought, and its because he was overhyped and overpriced.
5. I disagree that he was ever world class.

i dont doubt Rossi i think he is the best forward atm we have in Italy national team.
he is a litle far from World Class because he is not playing for a big club and because he didnt play in top lvl with his National team lets say if he plays in Euro and score alot goals and force Italy to the final he will consider World class right away.

they are 2 ways to get the world class title.to help your team won something or to help your national time won something.if you can do both and you playing in top lvl for years then you will go in different list with Pele,Maradona and Zidane.

eddy wrote:i dont doubt Rossi i think he is the best forward atm we have in Italy national team.
he is a litle far from World Class because he is not playing for a big club and because he didnt play in top lvl with his National team lets say if he plays in Euro and score alot goals and force Italy to the final he will consider World class right away.

they are 2 ways to get the world class title.to help your team won something or to help your national time won something.if you can do both and you playing in top lvl for years then you will go in different list with Pele,Maradona and Zidane.

I could go as far to say that Rossi is one of Italy's best attackers when in form- sure. But to say he is world class is just ignorant. I can name 5 players just off the top of my head that are undeniably better than Rossi

The_ItalianFool wrote:

JuvenelCuore wrote:

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:Rossi cannot be claimed as WC for the following reasons

1. He has never won anything on the elite lvl , club or country.

2. He isn't and wasn't considered the best in his position at all, during his career so far.

3. So far in his career he has only had 1 really outstanding season. Whereas other true WC players have half a decade of WC seasons.

4. He is not playing at a higher/same lvl than his peers , which is Eto, Villa , Ibra , Rooney.

5. He is currently sidelined with a serious injury, and thus it must still be determined whether he can get to the same lvl he was playing at last season or crucially if he can get better.

He doesn't meet any of the requirements to be regarded as WC, except in the Talent division, which many players out there fulfills as well.

1. Since when did winning things at club level mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean Pinto on Barcelona is better than Buffon ?

2. He was third highest scorer in La Liga behind Ronaldo and Messi. Since when did being the best in your position mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean there are only eleven worldclass players ? Hardly. Being the best is very different from being worldclass, and I am claiming the latter, not the former.

3. He was worldclass last season and that is what I look at. People consider Neymar worldclass and he is 19.

4. He could have made any team he wanted to. Barcelona were interested, as were Juventus, as were Tottenham, and I am sure if he was made available, nearly every club in need of a striker would try to secure his services.

5. Yes, he is injured, but I am claiming he is worldclass up until this point. He was worldclass last season and showed similar form only to be sidelined, meaning I will wait and see, but up until now, he is worldclass.

That is certain.

1. No. But that does mean Villa is better than Rossi.
2. Doesn't matter if we has third best in la liga. world class means you would make a world team of 23 players. on a team of 23 players, there are what, 5 strikers? thats being generous too. Rossi is not a top 5 striker in the world.
3.Neymar aint world class either, I'm seeing a trend here. I think the problem is the misuse of the word.
4.No, just because clubs are rumored interested that doesnt mean he could have gone anywhere. There is a reason he wasnt bought, and its because he was overhyped and overpriced.
5. I disagree that he was ever world class.

1. Not really. He won nothing with Valencia and only got really big in winning things with Spain and Barcelona, when he was 30. Rossi is a lot younger than he is, so give it time.

2. I do not see Rossi as a top five striker, but I do see him as a top ten striker, and I think the top ten players in every position should be considered as worldclass.

3. I am not saying he is. I said "people" think he is, which is true.

4. He could have gone places. Barcelona just chose Alexis Sanchez over him, which is fair.

5. Well then you are wrong.

We must be differing in our perceptions of worldclass. I do not think Rossi is the best, but he is definitely worldclass for me if he can keep it up with his team and maybe move away from this and play well for Gli Azzurri.

guys Villa was not work class when Barcelona sign him but he already won a world cup and he was a starter and one of the important players in their team.also he performed well with Barcelona and he is a starter.he won a champions league and alot more i cant say that i prefer Villa than Rossi but Villa is world class player because he proved himself in the top team of the world and he was a part of a team that won world cup.

JuvenelCuore wrote:

The_ItalianFool wrote:

JuvenelCuore wrote:

Rossoneri Ninja wrote:Rossi cannot be claimed as WC for the following reasons

1. He has never won anything on the elite lvl , club or country.

2. He isn't and wasn't considered the best in his position at all, during his career so far.

3. So far in his career he has only had 1 really outstanding season. Whereas other true WC players have half a decade of WC seasons.

4. He is not playing at a higher/same lvl than his peers , which is Eto, Villa , Ibra , Rooney.

5. He is currently sidelined with a serious injury, and thus it must still be determined whether he can get to the same lvl he was playing at last season or crucially if he can get better.

He doesn't meet any of the requirements to be regarded as WC, except in the Talent division, which many players out there fulfills as well.

1. Since when did winning things at club level mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean Pinto on Barcelona is better than Buffon ?

2. He was third highest scorer in La Liga behind Ronaldo and Messi. Since when did being the best in your position mean you were worldclass ? Does that mean there are only eleven worldclass players ? Hardly. Being the best is very different from being worldclass, and I am claiming the latter, not the former.

3. He was worldclass last season and that is what I look at. People consider Neymar worldclass and he is 19.

4. He could have made any team he wanted to. Barcelona were interested, as were Juventus, as were Tottenham, and I am sure if he was made available, nearly every club in need of a striker would try to secure his services.

5. Yes, he is injured, but I am claiming he is worldclass up until this point. He was worldclass last season and showed similar form only to be sidelined, meaning I will wait and see, but up until now, he is worldclass.

That is certain.

1. No. But that does mean Villa is better than Rossi.
2. Doesn't matter if we has third best in la liga. world class means you would make a world team of 23 players. on a team of 23 players, there are what, 5 strikers? thats being generous too. Rossi is not a top 5 striker in the world.
3.Neymar aint world class either, I'm seeing a trend here. I think the problem is the misuse of the word.
4.No, just because clubs are rumored interested that doesnt mean he could have gone anywhere. There is a reason he wasnt bought, and its because he was overhyped and overpriced.
5. I disagree that he was ever world class.

1. Not really. He won nothing with Valencia and only got really big in winning things with Spain and Barcelona, when he was 30. Rossi is a lot younger than he is, so give it time.

2. I do not see Rossi as a top five striker, but I do see him as a top ten striker, and I think the top ten players in every position should be considered as worldclass.

3. I am not saying he is. I said "people" think he is, which is true.

4. He could have gone places. Barcelona just chose Alexis Sanchez over him, which is fair.

5. Well then you are wrong.

We must be differing in our perceptions of worldclass. I do not think Rossi is the best, but he is definitely worldclass for me if he can keep it up with his team and maybe move away from this and play well for Gli Azzurri.

So the problem is you dont conform to the general communities definition of world class. gotcha. Maybe you should say top-10-class instead of world class.... :lol!:

The only other thing I think is worth responding to is that you said "so give it time." No, you give it time! You are the one saying he world class when in reality he isnt but MIGHT be one day.

Villa was world class long before Barcelona
He is the top scorer for Spain
He won the Euro and the World Cup before even playing a game for Barcelona

Who cares if you deem a player 'world class'
It really doesn't matter, just because we end up agreeing or disagreeing that Rossi is world class- what do we gain here?

World class is a subjective thing, JNC believes Rossi is world class and has backed it up with a number of examples, that should be more than enough to close the topic on being world class....

You cannot measure class, you can use certain statistics but really it comes down to personal beliefs and the reasons that support that belief are the only things that matter

Luca wrote:Villa was world class long before Barcelona
He is the top scorer for Spain
He won the Euro and the World Cup before even playing a game for Barcelona

Who cares if you deem a player 'world class'
It really doesn't matter, just because we end up agreeing or disagreeing that Rossi is world class- what do we gain here?

World class is a subjective thing, JNC believes Rossi is world class and has backed it up with a number of examples, that should be more than enough to close the topic on being world class....

You cannot measure class, you can use certain statistics but really it comes down to personal beliefs and the reasons that support that belief are the only things that matter

There needs to be an agreed upon standard. If world class means top 10 then a world team would contain 111 players.... Hardly selective enough!

Scoring 36 goals in 56 apps, is very close to world class status when looking at Stats. Anyways, if you ask me, Rossi is very close, on the peak of being just that if he does join a big club and keep his form up.

As for those claiming... 'top 23', etc... There's many ways we can look by claiming someone is a World Class player. For example... in Italy we like using the term 'Campione'... 'Cavani, ma che grande campione'! We usually refer to that as someone being a great player, sometimes world class. In terms of world class we say, 'Fuore Classe'... A term used on the likes of Pirlo, De Rossi and Cassano. If any of you tell me that one of these players are not world class and claim they need to fit in a 23 Best man squad are delusional.

To have a world class performance is different than being a world class player... I've read journals in Italia I know how much they exaggerate things too sometimes.

Im not trying to say Rossi isnt good, just that world class shouldn't be applied around to everyone who is really good or else the term will lose it's value.

JuvenelCuore wrote:

Il Pinguino wrote:

JuvenelCuore wrote:@Il_Pinguino: Rossi is worldclass.

Anyone who watches football knows that.

http://raeesm.wordpress.com/2011/06/21/defining-world-class-in-a-football-sense/

Must have missed that...phew

And just for future reference, facepalm and espresso smileys don't make you right... Instead of just making a statement and following it up with an indirect insult why not elaborate on the topic and explain why you believe Rossi is world class? You honestly need to drop the arrogance from every post its getting old.

I was genuinely concerned you had beaten me in this case, but then I went to the site, saw it was a blog and opinionated probably by one of your little friends, and now I am ashamed I granted you the benefit of the doubt.

Hope you are happy.

Missed the point as usual. Your way of defining world class players is off and bias. Rossi is a good player but just that. No where near world class yet. Blog is used as an opinion source in order for people to derive their opinions from another. It's not a hard concept to grasp....
Guess we're gonna have to wait for SKY to give a definition

Every way of defining world class is biased...

Luca wrote:Every way of defining world class is biased...

Pretty much.