Where are the pass masters...?

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:I would have also swapped Fabregas for Oezil in a heartbeat.

But then again we compare Cesc's average past 2 seasons to Oezil's awesome ones and it should be default.

Ozil was the most clinical final passer in Europe last season, by quite some margin. The numbers don't lie. Again this season he is way ahead of anyone in Madrid despite playing a weird deep AM role/winger for Madrid

I agree I wouldn't swap Cesc for Ozil for anything.

of course you would .......

Numbers don't lie

What are the numbers for this season like?

For La Liga and Champions League this season only:

Ozil has 2.6 assists per game, 4 goal assists and 21 assists total

Next highest in Madrid is Benzema with 1.8 assists per game, 1 goal assist and 13 assists total

Fabregas is sitting at 1.7 assists per game, 4 goal assists (according to ESPN, 3 according to Opta for some strange reason) and 12 assists total

Fabregas is a very direct player, and this mold of Barcelona cannot play with a direct midfielder. Their direct players are mainly the attacking ones, which is why Fabregas won't perform so well in midfield and it's probably why Pep has him playing up front.
Now, how Cesc isn't a play-maker, how his dribbling and close control suck, how his off the ball running sucks etc. etc. is COMPLETELY beyond me. I'm sorry Mole, but those sound like very very ignorant statements.

I've seen Fabregas play for 8 years here. Watched him play every single match in the past 5 years, and most of what you're saying is just BS. How many assists from the halfway line does he have to make to be considered a play-maker? How many assists does he have to rack up to be considered one? He's a direct player, but that doesn't mean he's not as good as Xavi or Iniesta; he just has a different style and that's perfectly fine.

Do I need to post the youtube videos? Seriously, this is ridiculous. Can't run? Can't dribble? ISN'T A PLAYMAKER? GTFO.
Unless these are excellent attempts at trolling, I just can't see how any of it is true. This is just stupid

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:Fab's CMs abilities can be based on that beautiful backpass he gifted Barca in that famous CL game.

Dont see how, considering that was in the final third of the pitch

No he wasn't.


1:21.

Ingnore the music

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:I would have also swapped Fabregas for Oezil in a heartbeat.

But then again we compare Cesc's average past 2 seasons to Oezil's awesome ones and it should be default.

Ozil was the most clinical final passer in Europe last season, by quite some margin. The numbers don't lie. Again this season he is way ahead of anyone in Madrid despite playing a weird deep AM role/winger for Madrid

I agree I wouldn't swap Cesc for Ozil for anything.

of course you would .......

Numbers don't lie

What are the numbers for this season like?

For La Liga and Champions League this season only:

Ozil has 2.6 assists per game, 4 goal assists and 21 assists total

Next highest in Madrid is Benzema with 1.8 assists per game, 1 goal assist and 13 assists total

Fabregas is sitting at 1.7 assists per game, 4 goal assists (according to ESPN, 3 according to Opta for some strange reason) and 12 assists total

Well I think it'd be better to look at all competitions.

Fabregas has played 25% less minutes that Ozil, yet has the same number of goal scoring assists and has six extra goals.

Numbers dont lie

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:I would have also swapped Fabregas for Oezil in a heartbeat.

But then again we compare Cesc's average past 2 seasons to Oezil's awesome ones and it should be default.

Ozil was the most clinical final passer in Europe last season, by quite some margin. The numbers don't lie. Again this season he is way ahead of anyone in Madrid despite playing a weird deep AM role/winger for Madrid

I agree I wouldn't swap Cesc for Ozil for anything.

of course you would .......

Numbers don't lie

What are the numbers for this season like?

For La Liga and Champions League this season only:

Ozil has 2.6 assists per game, 4 goal assists and 21 assists total

Next highest in Madrid is Benzema with 1.8 assists per game, 1 goal assist and 13 assists total

Fabregas is sitting at 1.7 assists per game, 4 goal assists (according to ESPN, 3 according to Opta for some strange reason) and 12 assists total

Well I think it'd be better to look at all competitions.

Fabregas has played 25% less minutes that Ozil, yet has the same number of goal scoring assists and has six extra goals.

Numbers dont lie

Read up my argument was Ozil was the best final passer in Europe last season

Hence the assist statistics, Madrid doesn't need anymore goalscorers we need playmakers and since this is a "pass master" thread again I say again I would not trade him for Cesc no matter what

Also theres only about 40mins difference in play time between them in UCL and La Liga

yawn....

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:I would have also swapped Fabregas for Oezil in a heartbeat.

But then again we compare Cesc's average past 2 seasons to Oezil's awesome ones and it should be default.

Ozil was the most clinical final passer in Europe last season, by quite some margin. The numbers don't lie. Again this season he is way ahead of anyone in Madrid despite playing a weird deep AM role/winger for Madrid

I agree I wouldn't swap Cesc for Ozil for anything.

of course you would .......

Numbers don't lie

What are the numbers for this season like?

For La Liga and Champions League this season only:

Ozil has 2.6 assists per game, 4 goal assists and 21 assists total

Next highest in Madrid is Benzema with 1.8 assists per game, 1 goal assist and 13 assists total

Fabregas is sitting at 1.7 assists per game, 4 goal assists (according to ESPN, 3 according to Opta for some strange reason) and 12 assists total

Well I think it'd be better to look at all competitions.

Fabregas has played 25% less minutes that Ozil, yet has the same number of goal scoring assists and has six extra goals.

Numbers dont lie

Read up my argument was Ozil was the best final passer in Europe last season

Hence the assist statistics, Madrid doesn't need anymore goalscorers we need playmakers and since this is a "pass master" thread again I say again I would not trade him for Cesc no matter what

Also theres only about 40mins difference in play time between them in UCL and La Liga

yawn....

I thought once I pointed out that Fabregas has been much better than Ozil this season, you might admit you'd swap him in a heartbeat.

But you've stuck to your guns. That's fair enough.

Lets see what the numbers say come the end of the season. You might change your mind then.

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:I would have also swapped Fabregas for Oezil in a heartbeat.

But then again we compare Cesc's average past 2 seasons to Oezil's awesome ones and it should be default.

Ozil was the most clinical final passer in Europe last season, by quite some margin. The numbers don't lie. Again this season he is way ahead of anyone in Madrid despite playing a weird deep AM role/winger for Madrid

I agree I wouldn't swap Cesc for Ozil for anything.

of course you would .......

Numbers don't lie

What are the numbers for this season like?

For La Liga and Champions League this season only:

Ozil has 2.6 assists per game, 4 goal assists and 21 assists total

Next highest in Madrid is Benzema with 1.8 assists per game, 1 goal assist and 13 assists total

Fabregas is sitting at 1.7 assists per game, 4 goal assists (according to ESPN, 3 according to Opta for some strange reason) and 12 assists total

Well I think it'd be better to look at all competitions.

Fabregas has played 25% less minutes that Ozil, yet has the same number of goal scoring assists and has six extra goals.

Numbers dont lie

Read up my argument was Ozil was the best final passer in Europe last season

Hence the assist statistics, Madrid doesn't need anymore goalscorers we need playmakers and since this is a "pass master" thread again I say again I would not trade him for Cesc no matter what

Also theres only about 40mins difference in play time between them in UCL and La Liga

yawn....

I thought once I pointed out that Fabregas has been much better than Ozil this season, you might admit you'd swap him in a heartbeat.

But you've stuck to your guns. That's fair enough.

Lets see what the numbers say come the end of the season. You might change your mind then.

Can't really compare 1 month in your right.

Fabregas will have alot more opportunities at Barcelona to get his numbers up the way they play football so it will be intriguing.

January and May are fair times to compare players, so we will look back at it then.

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Irish_Catalan_Scouser wrote:

Crimson wrote:

Sushi Master wrote:I would have also swapped Fabregas for Oezil in a heartbeat.

But then again we compare Cesc's average past 2 seasons to Oezil's awesome ones and it should be default.

Ozil was the most clinical final passer in Europe last season, by quite some margin. The numbers don't lie. Again this season he is way ahead of anyone in Madrid despite playing a weird deep AM role/winger for Madrid

I agree I wouldn't swap Cesc for Ozil for anything.

of course you would .......

Numbers don't lie

What are the numbers for this season like?

For La Liga and Champions League this season only:

Ozil has 2.6 assists per game, 4 goal assists and 21 assists total

Next highest in Madrid is Benzema with 1.8 assists per game, 1 goal assist and 13 assists total

Fabregas is sitting at 1.7 assists per game, 4 goal assists (according to ESPN, 3 according to Opta for some strange reason) and 12 assists total

Well I think it'd be better to look at all competitions.

Fabregas has played 25% less minutes that Ozil, yet has the same number of goal scoring assists and has six extra goals.

Numbers dont lie

Read up my argument was Ozil was the best final passer in Europe last season

Hence the assist statistics, Madrid doesn't need anymore goalscorers we need playmakers and since this is a "pass master" thread again I say again I would not trade him for Cesc no matter what

Also theres only about 40mins difference in play time between them in UCL and La Liga

yawn....

I thought once I pointed out that Fabregas has been much better than Ozil this season, you might admit you'd swap him in a heartbeat.

But you've stuck to your guns. That's fair enough.

Lets see what the numbers say come the end of the season. You might change your mind then.

Can't really compare 1 month in your right.

Fabregas will have alot more opportunities at Barcelona to get his numbers up the way they play football so it will be intriguing.

January and May are fair times to compare players, so we will look back at it then.

[u]

Agreed.

Off topic: Many of you need to check out my thread on learning how to properly quote users

Iceman wrote:Fabregas is a very direct player, and this mold of Barcelona cannot play with a direct midfielder. Their direct players are mainly the attacking ones, which is why Fabregas won't perform so well in midfield and it's probably why Pep has him playing up front.
Now, how Cesc isn't a play-maker, how his dribbling and close control suck, how his off the ball running sucks etc. etc. is COMPLETELY beyond me. I'm sorry Mole, but those sound like very very ignorant statements.

I've seen Fabregas play for 8 years here. Watched him play every single match in the past 5 years, and most of what you're saying is just BS. How many assists from the halfway line does he have to make to be considered a play-maker? How many assists does he have to rack up to be considered one? He's a direct player, but that doesn't mean he's not as good as Xavi or Iniesta; he just has a different style and that's perfectly fine.

Do I need to post the youtube videos? Seriously, this is ridiculous. Can't run? Can't dribble? ISN'T A PLAYMAKER? GTFO.
Unless these are excellent attempts at trolling, I just can't see how any of it is true. This is just stupid

His dribbling and close control do suck and i never said he his off the movement in general is bad just that his off the movement in midfield which requires a more subtle movement is bad, there is no denying his movement in the final third is world class.....

When i say he's not a playmaker i meant hes not a playmaker from the middle of the pitch he wont dictate play from the middle, of course hes a great playmaker in the final third....

All iam really saying is that i dont consider him a pass master, because in my view he only really dominates in the final third in this aspect hes no more of a pass master than Messi is......

To be a pass master imv you have to dominate the other team with your presence and passing all over the pitch not just in the final third.

But he does that. Just because he doesn't do it the tikki-takka way doesn't mean that he doesn't do it at all. He did it at Arsenal, he did it HIS way. His movement in the midfield is class, it's not just his movement and passing in the final third. I'm going to bring out just two youtube videos:





Final third player? Hardly. He's just a direct player with amazing through balls and vision. Why are we holding that against him? Because he doesn't play tikki-takka football? Since when was that a requirement?

see what i did there?

2011/2012

- Fabregas played 9 matches (511 minutes) scored 5 goals & made 4 assists.

- Ozil played 10 matches (716 minutes) scored 1 goals & made 4 assists.

2010/2011

- Fabregas played 36 matches (2551 minutes) scored 9 goals & made 16 assists / average: Goal/Assist every 102 min.
- Ozil played 53 matches ( 3853 minutes) scored 10 goals & made 28 assists/ average: Goal/Assist every 101 minute!

So according to these stats, although Fabregas was underperforming becuz of injuries, still Fabregas was as gd as a fit Ozil LoOoOoOoOoL

----------------------

Fabregas is not a the CM Barca are searching for, i don't think he can replace Xavi.. Fabregas is doing great as a AM, he has a great final pass & 3-4-3 fits him..
IMO, Thiago is the future replacement for Xavi !!!

how many assists and goals has Xavi had this season?being a excellent passer goes beyond the number of assists,another reason why its lol worthy calling a player like Rooney pass master...

Wow, how underrated is Cesc around here, lmao

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Wow, how underrated is Cesc around here, lmao

He ain't, we're just establishing he's a crap CM, but great AM.

The bitchy nature on how he left Arsenal doesn't help, either.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:Wow, how underrated is Cesc around here, lmao

Aensensen

@Mole, you dont think CEsc is capable of dictating the game from deeper in the middle and act like a field general? really?

He played AM by design with Arsenal, but he is more than able to do what you described.

He is a pass master because he dominates the game with his immaculate passing and positioning. His short comings are in different areas, and he is not playing deep because Wenger needed him higher.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:@Mole, you dont think CEsc is capable of dictating the game from deeper in the middle and act like a field general? really?

He played AM by design with Arsenal, but he is more than able to do what you described.

He is a pass master because he dominates the game with his immaculate passing and positioning. His short comings are in different areas, and he is not playing deep because Wenger needed him higher.

When Xavi retires and Thiago ends up replacing him and not Cesc and will bring this up again

Cesc just isnt capable of being a field general, he doesnt have the skillsets required to do so.....

come on mole, he does. Thiago is being bred into Xavi's position, it's only normal that it looks like a natural transition.

Cesc however entered his prime in england while playing AM, so his offensive weapons are more potent. I recall he started at Arsneal in a deeper role and was moved higher for the sake of the team.

He has enough baggage, but it's a matter of him not getting the opportunity.

I actually see Cesc as one of the few players in the world that excels at all passing categories... short linkups, medium passes and long passes. He has great vision from short to long depths. I rate him a much more complete playmaker and passer than Thiago honestly.

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:come on mole, he does. Thiago is being bred into Xavi's position, it's only normal that it looks like a natural transition.

Cesc however entered his prime in england while playing AM, so his offensive weapons are more potent. I recall he started at Arsneal in a deeper role and was moved higher for the sake of the team.

He has enough baggage, but it's a matter of him not getting the opportunity.

Opinions bro opinions, in my opinion he doesnt have the skillset to be a great CM and dont think he ever will but will most likely be remembered as one of the best AM's of his generation.....

Besides i hate him

sportsczy wrote:I actually see Cesc as one of the few players in the world that excels at all passing categories... short linkups, medium passes and long passes. He has great vision from short to long depths. I rate him a much more complete playmaker and passer than Thiago honestly.

who else of the same type do you see coming up?

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:come on mole, he does. Thiago is being bred into Xavi's position, it's only normal that it looks like a natural transition.

Cesc however entered his prime in england while playing AM, so his offensive weapons are more potent. I recall he started at Arsneal in a deeper role and was moved higher for the sake of the team.

He has enough baggage, but it's a matter of him not getting the opportunity.

Opinions bro, opinions in my opinion he doesnt have the skillset to be a great CM and dont think he ever will but will most likely be remembered as one of the best AM's of his generation.....

Besides i hate him

fair enough, when thiago falls out with you cules, you will have to rely on him though

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:

Immaculate_Mole wrote:

St_Nick09_of_Goal wrote:come on mole, he does. Thiago is being bred into Xavi's position, it's only normal that it looks like a natural transition.

Cesc however entered his prime in england while playing AM, so his offensive weapons are more potent. I recall he started at Arsneal in a deeper role and was moved higher for the sake of the team.

He has enough baggage, but it's a matter of him not getting the opportunity.

Opinions bro, opinions in my opinion he doesnt have the skillset to be a great CM and dont think he ever will but will most likely be remembered as one of the best AM's of his generation.....

Besides i hate him

fair enough, when thiago falls out with you cules, you will have to rely on him though

When Xavi goes 3-4-3 will be the permanent formation to compensate for the loss of Xavi so no falling out will take place

please, do switch to a 343