Re: David Villa

by Lord Hades Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:15 am

doesnt cr7 play on the left wing too? :coffee:

by S Mon Sep 12, 2011 9:33 am

I didnt say bringing up stats is wrong, im saying youre using them as your main source of opinion and that to me, is wrong.

Leftwing is an excuse lol

I dont even know how to respond to that.

Basic logic..if you play wide, your further from goal as your starting position then if your playing center....this seems logical.

Man you're getting it wrong cuz you used that to backup your argument by saying Villa played out wide in your earlier post and thats why i bought it up here..

We dont know what he would do if he played in the center? Really?

Didnt you watch the WC? Or a decade in La Liga where he has scored more then 200 goals? You need more proof of his ability to score more goals in the center? Really?

You admit he played well for Valencia, so in your opinion he has declined? Thats the reason he scored less?

Goodness ! Now you're putting words into my mouth..I'm talking about Villa's season at Barca where he played out wide..get that ?

And yes i've watched him in the world cup and have watched him at Valencia as well what now ?You're constantly emphasizing his role at left wing saying he played well but he dint manage to score goals or even consistently assist for that matter when that is the main thing i'm disputing here ,hence that left wing excuse came about..

You're basically sounding like ,'Villa was deployed out of position so he went through a rough patch of form'..It honestly seems that way..

You admit he played well for Valencia, so in your opinion he has declined? Thats the reason he scored less?

Not all the clear factors I pointed out?

Instead he declined from the time he played in the WC to a couple monthes later for Barca...in that short time, he declined?

I didnt say your clown for your opinion, but if you dont have a reasonable arguement for your opinion I obviously am going to question you on it.

Your saying, you saw when he did in the big games for Barca in the CL. On that evidence, has he declined? Well those are the hardest games of the season..if he performed in those, what more can you say?

Yes, I saw Napoli like half a dozen to 10 times, why? What did I say thats so out of the wrong in your opinion?

when did i say he declined ?Please dont comprehend it that way..I said it has been an inconsistent season By Villa's standards and he had far better seasons at valencia ,thats what i'm trying to say..But again you are trying to refute my arguments by saying he played well at left wing ,stats dont mean all and stuff like that..

And dint i say he stands up to the occasion..I'd like to commend him for that..But again i reiterate he hasnt been consistent enough.

The only important thing i'm using to backup my arguments is the factor of consistency which you dont seem to understand..I honestly cant convince you on that..The next thing you would do is discredit the quality of the league so frankly i'm speaking to a person who wont budge from his opinion..Good Day sir..

by Guest Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:49 am

There's no question, at least in my mind, that David Villa was one of the top 5 strikers in the world for his entire 5 years at Valencia and the first half of last year at Barca. But as it happens with players closing in on 30 that rely more on pace, he suddenly slowed. He no longer could create the space like he used to and his efficiency and confidence both dropped like rocks. So, he had a very meh 2nd half of the season last year. If we're talking about the best 5 strikers in the world today (again, i emphasize the word "today"), i wouldn't put him there. I may change my mind if he regains form for a couple of months... but until then, he's on the outside looking in.

by fatman123 Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:07 pm

two years ago when we did the double, drogba may not have been THE best striker in the world due to competition from players like eto'o but he was better then Villia IMO

by The Franchise Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:51 pm

Surag.Blueguy wrote:
I didnt say bringing up stats is wrong, im saying youre using them as your main source of opinion and that to me, is wrong.

Leftwing is an excuse lol

I dont even know how to respond to that.

Basic logic..if you play wide, your further from goal as your starting position then if your playing center....this seems logical.

Man you're getting it wrong cuz you used that to backup your argument by saying Villa played out wide in your earlier post and thats why i bought it up here..

We dont know what he would do if he played in the center? Really?

Didnt you watch the WC? Or a decade in La Liga where he has scored more then 200 goals? You need more proof of his ability to score more goals in the center? Really?

You admit he played well for Valencia, so in your opinion he has declined? Thats the reason he scored less?

Goodness ! Now you're putting words into my mouth..I'm talking about Villa's season at Barca where he played out wide..get that ?

And yes i've watched him in the world cup and have watched him at Valencia as well what now ?You're constantly emphasizing his role at left wing saying he played well but he dint manage to score goals or even consistently assist for that matter when that is the main thing i'm disputing here ,hence that left wing excuse came about..

You're basically sounding like ,'Villa was deployed out of position so he went through a rough patch of form'..It honestly seems that way..

You admit he played well for Valencia, so in your opinion he has declined? Thats the reason he scored less?

Not all the clear factors I pointed out?

Instead he declined from the time he played in the WC to a couple monthes later for Barca...in that short time, he declined?

I didnt say your clown for your opinion, but if you dont have a reasonable arguement for your opinion I obviously am going to question you on it.

Your saying, you saw when he did in the big games for Barca in the CL. On that evidence, has he declined? Well those are the hardest games of the season..if he performed in those, what more can you say?

Yes, I saw Napoli like half a dozen to 10 times, why? What did I say thats so out of the wrong in your opinion?

when did i say he declined ?Please dont comprehend it that way..I said it has been an inconsistent season By Villa's standards and he had far better seasons at valencia ,thats what i'm trying to say..But again you are trying to refute my arguments by saying he played well at left wing ,stats dont mean all and stuff like that..

And dint i say he stands up to the occasion..I'd like to commend him for that..But again i reiterate he hasnt been consistent enough.

The only important thing i'm using to backup my arguments is the factor of consistency which you dont seem to understand..I honestly cant convince you on that..The next thing you would do is discredit the quality of the league so frankly i'm speaking to a person who wont budge from his opinion..Good Day sir..

Its not a "backup" arguement, its a fact. I brought it up before, so what? Your saying its an excuse rather then a legit reason.

Who is putting words into your mouth? I am asking questions, as indictated by the ?" at the end of each sentance.

And again with the "he didnt score goals or assist"...have the checked the stats? He did score goals..why do you keep speaking like he barely scored?

How on earth did you get the impression I said Villa went through a rough patch because he played ont he wing? How does that even make sense as an arguement? Perhaps you should read more carefully.

I will say it again.

He had a very good season, better then most players named "better then him" by some people here.

He scored less goals then some of those players and maybe less goals then even he wanted, this was for two reasons.

1. He played a different role, a wider role, making him a less direct scoring threat.

2. He went through a patch of games, 15, in which he didnt score.

Those 2 points are reason why he scored less goals then perhaps he wanted.

Now maybe this is the tricky part. Goals are NOT the only indicator of performance, especially not for someone who isnt playing a number 9 role. His goL are part of the measure of performance, part...but not scoring for 15 games doesnt automaticaly mean he was bad for all 15 of those games.

This is simple enough to me, I hope you understand it.

I dont understand how based on this, you can continue to use stats are you main judge of performance. However, you have already said you didnt even watch the games, so how your involved in this discussion I am not really sure.

by The Franchise Mon Sep 12, 2011 2:53 pm

diptiman wrote:doesnt cr7 play on the left wing too?

If you cant keep up with the thread, maybe you shouldnt post.

by Guest Mon Sep 12, 2011 4:19 pm

Rooney had the opposite season of Villa, as he started out injured and then complete shat... finished brilliantly, which is why i rate him as one of the best in the world today. If he had done the opposite, i would have doubts about him too until he proved himself again.

I believe stats are by far the biggest component of how you judge a striker Dani... we'll agree to disagree.

by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:00 am

I dont agree, it surely has to be a case to case situation here.

David Villa and center strikers like Cavani clearly play a different role and has different tasks on the pitch, how can you throw in goals as a marker of how each did based on what I just said.

Also, its a big componant when rating two center strikers I agree, but even then, its not the be all and end all. At least not to me.

If so, this means Salva Ballesta was the best La Liga striker in 1999, Javi Moreno was better then Kluivert in 2000, Roy Makaay better then Ronaldo in 2002 and so on.

by Guest Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:51 am

The Franchise wrote:I dont agree, it surely has to be a case to case situation here.

David Villa and center strikers like Cavani clearly play a different role and has different tasks on the pitch, how can you throw in goals as a marker of how each did based on what I just said.

Also, its a big componant when rating two center strikers I agree, but even then, its not the be all and end all. At least not to me.

If so, this means Salva Ballesta was the best La Liga striker in 1999, Javi Moreno was better then Kluivert in 2000, Roy Makaay better then Ronaldo in 2002 and so on.

You're using outlier events to make your general case. There's no such thing as a perfect model to evaluate anything, whether it's football or something else. You're looking for 90-95% accuracy (putting my quant shoes back on lol). There's nothing in Villa's season or situation last year that qualifies him to be an outlier: he played for the best team with the best service, he shot the ball a lot, he wasn't suffering from nagging injuries and none of his competition played in otherwise special circumstances. He just wasn't as good. Nobody is talking about berbatov, for example, because he was an outlier case: he scored most of his goals in 10-12 games and did nothing else. So of course you're going to check to see if there are other things to consider than just stats... But I don't see any that would play in Villa's favor or to the other player's disadvantage in comparison to Villa.

by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 2:45 pm

So its okay for Roy Makaay to outscore Ronaldo for one single season and he isnt better, but if Cavani outscored Villa he must be the better player now?

Despite the fact Makaay and Ronaldo played the same role while Cavani and Villa did not.

I dont buy that the first time, let alone after I add the 2nd sentance.

Sorry, not for me.

Stats have never been the be all and end all, at least not for me, flawed and basic and leaves out so many crucial factors.

by Guest Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:01 pm

The Franchise wrote:So its okay for Roy Makaay to outscore Ronaldo for one single season and he isnt better, but if Cavani outscored Villa he must be the better player now?

Despite the fact Makaay and Ronaldo played the same role while Cavani and Villa did not.

I dont buy that the first time, let alone after I add the 2nd sentance.

Sorry, not for me.

Stats have never been the be all and end all, at least not for me, flawed and basic and leaves out so many crucial factors.

Exactly when did Makaay outscore CR7 when CR7 was considered a top 5 striker in the world? I hope you're not mismatching seasons... If so, great argument there. Fantastic.

Stats are 80% of the measuring stick for goalscorers because their job is to fill the stat sheet. Argue all you want, but Villa was largely poor last year. I'm not arguing that he wasn't a top 10 striker... but there's no way in the world he was top 5. No chance.

by Jack Daniels Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:02 pm

I think he was talking about R9 man.

by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:06 pm

sportsczy wrote:
The Franchise wrote:So its okay for Roy Makaay to outscore Ronaldo for one single season and he isnt better, but if Cavani outscored Villa he must be the better player now?

Despite the fact Makaay and Ronaldo played the same role while Cavani and Villa did not.

I dont buy that the first time, let alone after I add the 2nd sentance.

Sorry, not for me.

Stats have never been the be all and end all, at least not for me, flawed and basic and leaves out so many crucial factors.

Exactly when did Makaay outscore CR7 when CR7 was considered a top 5 striker in the world? I hope you're not mismatching seasons... If so, great argument there. Fantastic.

Stats are 80% of the measuring stick for goalscorers because their job is to fill the stat sheet. Argue all you want, but Villa was largely poor last year. I'm not arguing that he wasn't a top 10 striker... but there's no way in the world he was top 5. No chance.

Do I really need to say more.......

Makaay and Ronaldo...I dont call CR7 Ronaldo, that wouldnt make sense now would it.

Stats are 80%? Says who?

Thats not my opinion.

Villa was poor, yet he scored more La Liga goals then Benzema who supposedly was better...superb logic.

by Guest Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:25 pm

The Franchise wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
The Franchise wrote:So its okay for Roy Makaay to outscore Ronaldo for one single season and he isnt better, but if Cavani outscored Villa he must be the better player now?

Despite the fact Makaay and Ronaldo played the same role while Cavani and Villa did not.

I dont buy that the first time, let alone after I add the 2nd sentance.

Sorry, not for me.

Stats have never been the be all and end all, at least not for me, flawed and basic and leaves out so many crucial factors.

Exactly when did Makaay outscore CR7 when CR7 was considered a top 5 striker in the world? I hope you're not mismatching seasons... If so, great argument there. Fantastic.

Stats are 80% of the measuring stick for goalscorers because their job is to fill the stat sheet. Argue all you want, but Villa was largely poor last year. I'm not arguing that he wasn't a top 10 striker... but there's no way in the world he was top 5. No chance.

Do I really need to say more.......

Makaay and Ronaldo...I dont call CR7 Ronaldo, that wouldnt make sense now would it.

Stats are 80%? Says who?

Thats not my opinion.

Villa was poor, yet he scored more La Liga goals then Benzema who supposedly was better...superb logic.

There are a couple of Ronaldo's around lol. Being specific (as in R9 or CR7) doesn't hurt. And btw, i thought Makaay was better than Ronaldo in 02-03 and had a 3-year run where he was one of the best in the world. He didn't have the same impact on the pitch as R9; but he was excellent.

Are you saying that currently Villa has more impact on the pitch than Cavani, Benzema, etc.? Since you're suggesting that the stats should be discarded, are you making the claim that Villa overcomes his lesser stats by having comparatively superior impact on the pitch compared to his peers?

Btw, in all club competitions, Villa scored less goals and assists than Benzema despite logging almost 1200 mins more in 2010-2011, less efficient, etc. And Benzema did most of his damage over 2011. Again, we're talking about today... not the past as in 2010. Villa is not a top 5 striker today, which is my stand.

by buddytaller Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:44 pm

Some stats over the course of last season, David Villa scored 18 goals in 34 league matches(started 32, 2767 minutes) last season an average of a goal every 153.722 minutes, Benzema scored 15 goals in 33 league matches (started 20, 1884 minutes) an average of a goal every 125.6 minutes.

Benzema had a better season than Villa last season and it is without a doubt, Villa might have been played out of position, but he was never starved of services, and was guilty of missing a number of clear chances. I don't expect David Villa to perform any better this season, I expect similar numbers or worse than last season's tally as he'll soon hit 30, and already looks like a shadow of his former self in Valencia.

by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 3:47 pm

Yeah, I call Madrid's Ronaldo, Cristiano. I adress the Brazilian as Ronaldo.

I thought seeeing as I compared him to Makaay everyone would of got that one.

Makaay was a better player then Ronaldo in those years? Come on, you dont really believe that do you?

He wasnt 98 Ronaldo, but he was clearly better then Makaay.

Do you believe Salva Ballesta was the best La Liga striker in 1999?

And Javi Moreno was better then Kluivert?

Am I saying Villa has more impact on the pitch then those guys, I dont know about that, its hard to define impact.

What I do think though, he has a different role to his Valencia days and even for Spain. I think that is by a distance the biggest factor in his lack of goals by comparison to only his past performances.

I find it hard to believe all of a sudden he struggles to score at club level due to some kind of decline.

As I said, he plays center a little more often for Spain and look, 3 goals in 5 friendlies, 3 goals in 3 qualifiying games and 5 goals in 7 WC games last season

I think that speaks for itself to be honest.

When he plays the same role as those guys you mention, he is scoring at a prolific rate.

How did Bez score more? Villa scored 38 in all comps, Benz 29. Why do we have discount NT's again?

As I said, Villa didnt magically decline in the Jan transer window. You speak of 2010 like it was 5 years ago and its possible he has fallen off in that time.

Anyone who thinks he has, needs to look at the big games, even in 2011 to see he hasnt.

I wil take scoring a couple less goals against CL minnows, but scoring and playing well in the important games over what Benz did in the small games and didnt do in the big ones.

by Guest Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:08 pm

"And btw, i thought Makaay was better than Ronaldo in 02-03 and had a 3-year run where he was one of the best in the world. He didn't have the same impact on the pitch as R9; but he was excellent."

Did i say he was better than R9 for 3 years? No. See above. I said he was better than R9 as a striker for one year... 02-03. Makaay was absolutely incredible. You can't discard his production despite the overall talents of R9.

And again, you start bringing in production from WC, career, 2010, etc. For the past 9 months, he's not a top 5 striker. Not even top 10 imo. And definitely not as good as the two you're fixated on, Benzema and Cavani. Rooney, Eto'o, Gomez, RVP, CR7, Messi, Aguero, Tevez, etc. were also better.

by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:23 pm

Right, so when we are not fudging the issue. Makkay wasnt actually a better player then Ronaldo at any point. I think thats the truth right?

Why do you tihnk I am fixed on those two, because those two (apart from Higuain) were the worst ones of all your claims.

This notion of, score more goals = better season = better player doesnt set will with me and history sort of shows why.

As I said, were Salva the best striker in 99?

Why do we have to discount 2010 like it was 5 years ago?

Has Villa declined from 2010 to 2011? That 15 game spell has seriously blinded people.

Even in 2011, Villa scored in the CL final and he scored against Arsenal in the CL.

Who did Benz score against, even in 2011? He was so great in 2011, Mou didnt even use him off the bench in 2 games vs us....thats how great Benz is.

Beating up Zaragoza, Getafe and Lyon who finished a distant 3rd in the French league dont impress quite like Manchester Utd and Arsenal do they?

by Guest Tue Sep 13, 2011 4:39 pm

He was imo, although it was R9's best year in Madrid and his best one after the injuries. It's debatable. But Makaay and Deportivo were just magical. He had 39 goals for them in all competitions and played with incredible consistency. That fact that he didn't make the ballon d'or podium was outrageous.

In those years, 6 guys stood out: Henry, Chevtchenko, R9, Makaay, RVN, Toni and later ronaldinho.

EDIT: I keep adding players as i start remembering them lol.

by halamadrid2 Tue Sep 13, 2011 6:54 pm

The Franchise wrote:

Even in 2011, Villa scored in the CL final and he scored against Arsenal in the CL.

Who did Benz score against, even in 2011? He was so great in 2011, Mou didnt even use him off the bench in 2 games vs us....thats how great Benz is.

Beating up Zaragoza, Getafe and Lyon who finished a distant 3rd in the French league dont impress quite like Manchester Utd and Arsenal do they?

Arsenal??? since when was arsenal a top team????

what other "good" team did we actually play apart from the ajax's, milans and lyons in CL

well ozil was subbed out in one and started off the bench in the other, does that mean he was average last season???

in the first game he needed arerial presence, and was about to sub in benzema and kaka if it wasnt for pepes red card, second leg again bizzarly he chose ade over him because of his tallness, not because he was better than benzema, you can see now when pep has lots of choices he actually benches villa(seriously i can see him leaving fairly soon)

last time i checked the supercopa was part of 2011 no?? 1 goal and two asisst, to villas one that only happens/succeeds once or twice every season

by The Franchise Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:08 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

Even in 2011, Villa scored in the CL final and he scored against Arsenal in the CL.

Who did Benz score against, even in 2011? He was so great in 2011, Mou didnt even use him off the bench in 2 games vs us....thats how great Benz is.

Beating up Zaragoza, Getafe and Lyon who finished a distant 3rd in the French league dont impress quite like Manchester Utd and Arsenal do they?

Arsenal??? since when was arsenal a top team????

what other "good" team did we actually play apart from the ajax's, milans and lyons in CL

well ozil was subbed out in one and started off the bench in the other, does that mean he was average last season???

in the first game he needed arerial presence, and was about to sub in benzema and kaka if it wasnt for pepes red card, second leg again bizzarly he chose ade over him because of his tallness, not because he was better than benzema, you can see now when pep has lots of choices he actually benches villa(seriously i can see him leaving fairly soon)

last time i checked the supercopa was part of 2011 no?? 1 goal and two asisst, to villas one that only happens/succeeds once or twice every season

Arsenal last season up untill they lost to B'Ham were FAR better then Lyon, in fact, they looked like they had a chance to win the PL. Dont try and downplay Arsenal to make a point but all the facts at the tim tell you Arsenal were very strong.

Ask any Arsenal fan, how good were they playing before that B'ham game.

You played us, and he did nothing.

He did nothing in any game against strong teams last season, he didnt even get to play in them because Mou didnt believe in him.

Use the excuse Mou anted Ade's height, if Benzema was so great, he would of been used. Actually, if all of the players some of your fans are as great as you think, why did he even play that style in the first place?

Villa has never not been used in any game due to quality, not once.

Where did I say Benz was average, if you cant keep up maybe you should drop out of the thread?

supercopa? We was talking last season..again, keep up. The orignal point was Benz was better last season.

by Guest Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:26 pm

Franchise is doing the stork in the water act... duck your head into the water and pretend the world didn't just pass you by lol.

Well if facts aren't going to work and feelings are so much more reliable, go with your feelings. What else can anyone say.

by izzy Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:30 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:Arsenal??? since when was arsenal a top team????

what other "good" team did we actually play apart from the ajax's, milans and lyons in CL

well ozil was subbed out in one and started off the bench in the other, does that mean he was average last season???

in the first game he needed arerial presence, and was about to sub in benzema and kaka if it wasnt for pepes red card, second leg again bizzarly he chose ade over him because of his tallness, not because he was better than benzema, you can see now when pep has lots of choices he actually benches villa(seriously i can see him leaving fairly soon)

last time i checked the supercopa was part of 2011 no?? 1 goal and two asisst, to villas one that only happens/succeeds once or twice every season

by halamadrid2 Tue Sep 13, 2011 7:56 pm

The Franchise wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
The Franchise wrote:

Even in 2011, Villa scored in the CL final and he scored against Arsenal in the CL.

Who did Benz score against, even in 2011? He was so great in 2011, Mou didnt even use him off the bench in 2 games vs us....thats how great Benz is.

Beating up Zaragoza, Getafe and Lyon who finished a distant 3rd in the French league dont impress quite like Manchester Utd and Arsenal do they?

Arsenal??? since when was arsenal a top team????

what other "good" team did we actually play apart from the ajax's, milans and lyons in CL

well ozil was subbed out in one and started off the bench in the other, does that mean he was average last season???

in the first game he needed arerial presence, and was about to sub in benzema and kaka if it wasnt for pepes red card, second leg again bizzarly he chose ade over him because of his tallness, not because he was better than benzema, you can see now when pep has lots of choices he actually benches villa(seriously i can see him leaving fairly soon)

last time i checked the supercopa was part of 2011 no?? 1 goal and two asisst, to villas one that only happens/succeeds once or twice every season

Arsenal last season up untill they lost to B'Ham were FAR better then Lyon, in fact, they looked like they had a chance to win the PL. Dont try and downplay Arsenal to make a point but all the facts at the tim tell you Arsenal were very strong.(same shit different day huh?? to the point that people have even come up with an arsenal annual performance graph ffs, dont make them sound like they are a good team when they arent)

Ask any Arsenal fan, how good were they playing before that B'ham game.

You played us, and he did nothing.(in the first half season, well i agree)

He did nothing in any game against strong teams last season, he didnt even get to play in them because Mou didnt believe in him.(name the strong teams please)

Use the excuse Mou anted Ade's height, if Benzema was so great, he would of been used. Actually, if all of the players some of your fans are as great as you think, why did he even play that style in the first place?(maybe because it has proved so successful for him in the other teams he has coached, ever thought of that)

Villa has never not been used in any game due to quality, not once. (why??? is it because he had bojan on the bench as the only competitor durrhh)

Where did I say Benz was average, if you cant keep up maybe you should drop out of the thread?(maybe you should explain to me what you mean by "Mou didnt even use him off the bench in 2 games vs us....thats how great Benz is." incase i should consider taking esol lessons) insecure much

supercopa? We was talking last season..again, keep up. The orignal point was Benz was better last season.(how about you specify it by saying in the 2010/2011 season, maybe there wouldnt be such misunderstandings then, have a think about that for next time smfh)

by DV7 Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:45 pm

Fact: David Villa>>>Cr7 on freekicks.

by Doc Tue Sep 13, 2011 9:58 pm

Which literally has nothing to do with the topic at hand but say what...

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