Re: Off-Topic: Argentina National Team

by billionmillion Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:18 am

Aguero is better passer than most of arg midfielders. I still remember that venezuella match when messi aguero and tevez linked so well. why they changed this i dont understand. Di maria is no where creative and intelligent as aguero. play banega pastore aguero tevez messi higuain together if the team doesnt become the best in the world then i would change my name

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:28 pm

Di Maria is a winger though, and provides things in a 4-4-2 that Aguero can't provide. I don't think he's going anywhere. He also played great and got 2 assists.

by harhar11 Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:38 pm

free_cat wrote:
harhar11 wrote: but its only good that he becomes more selfless for Argentina AND Barca...

I disagree. I think Messi at Barça has the perfect balance of selfisness/selflessness.
Yes, he times misses a clear pass to Villa (mostly), but he also sometimes score when this happen. While sometimes, he passes the ball, and the other one doesn't score. He is also more prolifical than ever giving assists, which clearly means he is not very selfihs. And he is the best dribler in the world - by far - we have to take advantadge of that.

Im not saying that he should be selfless all the time, but I mean sometimes he only has to make a easy pass to someone who is open and has a high chance of scoring but messi ends up ballhogging the ball and either loses the ball or the chance is gone.

For example
Off-Topic: Argentina National Team - Page 5 Di-NSR0

Off-Topic: Argentina National Team - Page 5 Di-NSR0

by Adit Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:39 pm

Di maria as a left winger is twice the player of him on right,and aguero as a winger is just waste of space.Hence a maria-higgy-mehssi .

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:30 am

I'm just going to quote Shini because I completely agree with him:

shinigami99 wrote:Today everything went wrong for Sabella, from Player selections all the way to tactics.

3-5-2 that looked more like a 6-2-2 and we couldn't even defend properly. Now that is very shameful. Look at the quality of the defenders. Rojo was the one of the worst performers on the pitch. Absolute BS. Otamendi made one mistake but he and dimicichelis i didn't really have a problem with. Burdisso was getting owned by Rondon left right and center. Zabaleta was probably one of the best players for us. However, he was still VERY normal.

Mascherano...shouldn't be in midfield. The defense right now should be Otamendi-Mascherano-Dimichellis. I don't like Dimichellis so I'm hoping that Musacchio/Fernandez can replace him. Banega was absolutely horrible when he came on. He literally gave the ball away 10 seconds after he came on. He gave bad passes since then. Sosa, I DON"T KNOW WHY THE FRAK HE IS THERE. HE IS NOT NT MATERIAL(LIKE ROJO) AND SHOULDN"T BE ALLOWED NEAR THE NT. Di maria was back to his selfish old self. Higuain tried his best but he just wasn't getting service today. Same as messi. I don't blame either of them(Messi or Higuain). They just weren't getting the ball. Also Venezuela marked messi very closesly and I remembered good tackles from markers on Messi.

If Sabella IS going to play a 3-5-2 there is a much better way to do it.

-------Otamendi---------Mascherano-----Mussachio--------
----Pillud------Banega/Canteros----------Gago--------Pastore-------Ansaldi
-----------------------------Messi----------------------------------------
--------------------Higuain/Aguero-----------------------------------------

Of course it's not going to happen but I hope this loss today makes him re-evaluate his team selections

by Guest Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:22 am

Terrible tactics tonight don't know why he bothered

Higuain and Messi were isolated very well and Argentina looked to be playing more English hoof ball than anything else

Sigh terrible to watch

by billionmillion Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:36 am

Last time argentina had a normal squad was in 2004, after that argentina suck. Midfield of Ortega, Aimar, Riquelme, Veron, Gallardo, defence samuel, zanetti, ayala strikers eh strikers never were problem. Now they only have strikers. Midfield and Defence are below avarage, most of south america teams have better players in defence and midfield. I dont believe any tactics would solve the problem with these players, maybe if mourinho was coach he would make them normal decent players by raping their ass

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:40 pm

How is our midfield average? Banega, Lucho, Mascherano, Pastore, Di Maria... all established, very good players.

by Guest Wed Oct 12, 2011 6:58 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How is our midfield average? Banega, Lucho, Mascherano, Pastore, Di Maria... all established, very good players.

yup

I don't understand the brainfarts that Argentina coaches have?

I honestly think some of you guys could coach and tactically do a better job (SERIOUSLY!)

Why for so much fail Sad

by alexjanosik Wed Oct 12, 2011 8:35 pm

I have maintained for quite some time that when your defense is piss porr(putting it generously) and your midfield doesnt exist(dont mean a paper midfield but a proper functioning midfield.Banega for some reason doesnt show up for the NT) then the only viable alternative is bypassing the midfield and playing fast counter attacking football.

Right now its easy picking off Argentina.Every oppsoition coach knows that Messi is the only one creating anything.All the others have a Messi complex and expect him to be their saviour.So they put men on him and cut off his passing options.Argentina are done.Then pick them up on the counter.

So why doesnt the imbecile of a coach understand this?Play 2 holding players in midfield to support the piss poor defense and play a fast counter attacking brand of football.
They have the players upfront who are tailor made for such football.
if this was implemnted(as I have been saying before the 2010 WC) Argentina would have done much better at the WC and would undoubtedly be Copa champions.

Instead idiot coach after idiot coach has them playing possession football when they dont have the players for it.

by jibers Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:46 pm

Watching them yesterday hurt my eyes. How pastore doesnt start is beyond me. Banega isnt creative and his passing isnt consistent enough. How the gaffer doesnt see these things is literally beyond me. tbh.

by billionmillion Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:29 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How is our midfield average? Banega, Lucho, Mascherano, Pastore, Di Maria... all established, very good players.

Thats why Argentina fails. Neither of these midfielders are in the ortega aimar riquelme veron gallardo level. Mascerano is not a midfielder, Di Maria is not creative enough his decision making sucks, Banega is a newbie, pastore is just good midfielder. Before argentina didnt have world class coach but they performed better than this. maybe after 2-3 years pastore and banega improves and reaches ortega and others level then we can see a creative midfield by the team

by billionmillion Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:45 pm

I can not understand how alfred and other argentina fans can be happy about this national teams play and players and only blame coach.They changed 5 coaches seems all of them are idiot. Ok maybe coach is one reason but lack of players is another reason. Most of time i feel shame watching their play. A big football country like Argentina plays like a second division la liga team, its just shame for argentina and for the fans

Except attack and mascerano argentina doesnt have WC players. defence avarage players and midfield avarage players. most of them doesnt deserve to play for argentina. in paper they are stars, but real stars are d.silva, iniesta, sanchez, ozil, xavi, sneijder. not pastore or banega, neither of them played for top teams. Pedro would be their best player if he played for banega or pastore's teams. If you are star of a top team then you are really a star otherwise i dont think they are so big players. at least in big teams you learn responsibility

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:41 pm

I don't only blame the coach - I know our defense is sh*t, I just think that we should control what we can control. And tactics are in that realm.

by messixaviesta Sun Oct 16, 2011 3:42 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:How is our midfield average? Banega, Lucho, Mascherano, Pastore, Di Maria... all established, very good players.

Not average perhaps but it's not an outstanding midfield either. The problem is some players are difficult to fit in. Some are too attacking to play deeper while some are too defensive to contribute much in attack. A box to box number 8 is really needed - perhaps Lucho deserves more chances.

Our forward line is impressive. It's working well and is quite similar to what Batista used in his initial days before his false number 9 and Barcelona obsession took over.

What I want to know is why should a team that is still struggling to find the right balance of players experiment with a three man defense? Is there any worthwhile reason or is it another case of just because Barcelona is doing it ???

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:27 pm

I think Sabella wanted to get 1 point out of it. Which is indeed a very worrying thing for Argentina to go to Venezuela with the intention of getting a draw. His comments support this "We have to win no matter the way". Later his captain would say "We went for the point". So he set up a defensive formation designed for that. But it backfired as we don't really have a defensive unit. The implications of this can't be good for the Argentina fans...

btw Jd it's good to have you back cheers

by messixaviesta Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:47 pm

Nice of you to say that alfred. Thanks. Interesting explanation you have given but it's puzzling why a coach would think this way especially after we had begun with such momentum. I thought 6 points were in the bag and was really shocked to see this result.

by BarrileteCosmico Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:37 pm

Yup. He's getting quite a bit of criticism for saying that, a lot of people are now saying he doesn't have a big team ambition/mentality. I think the players fatigue might have conditioned this stance, as they were clearly tired and I think the match was played at a high temperature. But that of course is no excuse for a team of Argentina's stature.

Btw, how would you all start the defense? I was thinking about this today and I realized none of my "first choice" players made the squad. If I had my way, the defensive line today would be:

Zanetti - Mussacchio - Coloccini - Ansaldi

Granted, I haven't seen Ansaldi play in forever and a half, but he did get called up for the first friendly under Sabella which gave me some hope. Then he got injured and we haven't seen him since. The Villareal coach has been mixing the team trying to find a solution to their problems, and the player to have always been in the line-up (injury aside) is Mussacchio. That speaks about his importance to the team. Coloccini if Newcastle fans are to be believed is having the best year of his life. Lastly, Zanetti is a legend and we have no one better. I still think he could make the next WC.

by Albiceleste Tue Oct 18, 2011 9:00 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Yup. He's getting quite a bit of criticism for saying that, a lot of people are now saying he doesn't have a big team ambition/mentality. I think the players fatigue might have conditioned this stance, as they were clearly tired and I think the match was played at a high temperature. But that of course is no excuse for a team of Argentina's stature.

Btw, how would you all start the defense? I was thinking about this today and I realized none of my "first choice" players made the squad. If I had my way, the defensive line today would be:

Zanetti - Mussacchio - Coloccini - Ansaldi

Granted, I haven't seen Ansaldi play in forever and a half, but he did get called up for the first friendly under Sabella which gave me some hope. Then he got injured and we haven't seen him since. The Villareal coach has been mixing the team trying to find a solution to their problems, and the player to have always been in the line-up (injury aside) is Mussacchio. That speaks about his importance to the team. Coloccini if Newcastle fans are to be believed is having the best year of his life. Lastly, Zanetti is a legend and we have no one better. I still think he could make the next WC.

by BarcaKizz Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:34 pm

You've included Mussachio, what are your thoughts on Gonzalo? He's on a similar level... and he doesn't seem any worse than other players.

I still think go with Masch at the back with someone like Gonzalo or Musacchio (who have height). Otamendi is too short to partner him.

by messixaviesta Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:04 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Yup. He's getting quite a bit of criticism for saying that, a lot of people are now saying he doesn't have a big team ambition/mentality. I think the players fatigue might have conditioned this stance, as they were clearly tired and I think the match was played at a high temperature. But that of course is no excuse for a team of Argentina's stature.

Btw, how would you all start the defense? I was thinking about this today and I realized none of my "first choice" players made the squad. If I had my way, the defensive line today would be:

Zanetti - Mussacchio - Coloccini - Ansaldi

Granted, I haven't seen Ansaldi play in forever and a half, but he did get called up for the first friendly under Sabella which gave me some hope. Then he got injured and we haven't seen him since. The Villareal coach has been mixing the team trying to find a solution to their problems, and the player to have always been in the line-up (injury aside) is Mussacchio. That speaks about his importance to the team. Coloccini if Newcastle fans are to be believed is having the best year of his life. Lastly, Zanetti is a legend and we have no one better. I still think he could make the next WC.

Excellent comments alfred. The defense definitely needs a change of personnel. Even the constitution of the midfield needs to be rethought. Only the forward line and goalkeeper are well established.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Oct 26, 2011 8:42 pm

Sorry for the late response Kizz, I didn't notice. Gonzalo seemed solid but not quite having the potential get me excited about his future projection. I actually haven't seen him play since his season-ending injury last season, has he recovered well?

Also, Otamendi (183), Musacchio (180) and Gonzalo (183) are all around the same height. Demichelis is 184. Coloccini is the tallest at 185. We don't have very many tall options here, or at all.

A player I'm definitely keeping an eye out for is Pezzella, who is once again playing well with the U20 in the Panamerican games, but the River Plate president is refusing to let him play until he changes his agent because of some personal conflict. Unfortunately, the agent is his father so this doesn't seem likely to happen. :facepalm:

It's still not clear if at 23 he would be seleccion material by the next WC, but definitely one of the most exciting defensive prospects to come out of Argentina in a long time.

Colombia - Argentina completely sold out today.

by Albiceleste Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:02 am

Argentina play Bolivia on November 11, and then Colombia four days later.

Sabella will call up home-based players to the squad at a later date. Here is the official list of foreign-based players:

Goalkeepers
Mariano Andujar Catania
Sergio Romero Sampdoria
Defenders
Nicolas Burdisso Roma
Martin Demichelis Malaga
Federico Fernández Napoli
Luciano MonzonNice
Marcos Rojo Spartak Moscow
Pablo Zabaleta Manchester City
Midfielders
Ever Banega Valencia
Fernando Gago Roma
Pablo Guinazu Internacional
Javier Mascherano Barcelona
Javier Pastore Paris Saint-Germain
Jose Sosa Metalist
Strikers
Sergio Aguero Manchester City
German Denis Atalanta
Angel Di Maria Real Madrid
Nicolas Gaitan Benfica
Gonzalo Higuain Real Madrid
Ezequiel Lavezzi Napoli
Lionel Messi Barcelona

by Albiceleste Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:02 am

Sosa, Huinazu, Monzon, Rojo, Denis :facepalm:

by Albiceleste Fri Oct 28, 2011 7:03 am

Lionel Messi wrote:Argentina play Bolivia on November 11, and then Colombia four days later.

Sabella will call up home-based players to the squad at a later date. Here is the official list of foreign-based players:

Goalkeepers
Mariano Andujar Catania
Sergio Romero Sampdoria
Defenders
Nicolas Burdisso Roma
Martin Demichelis Malaga
Federico Fernández Napoli
Luciano Monzon Nice
Marcos Rojo Spartak Moscow
Pablo Zabaleta Manchester City
Midfielders
Ever Banega Valencia
Fernando Gago Roma
Pablo Guinazu Internacional
Javier Mascherano Barcelona
Javier Pastore Paris Saint-Germain
Jose Sosa Metalist
Strikers
Sergio Aguero Manchester City
German Denis Atalanta
Angel Di Maria Real Madrid
Nicolas Gaitan Benfica
Gonzalo Higuain Real Madrid
Ezequiel Lavezzi Napoli
Lionel Messi Barcelona

by shinigami99 Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:58 am

Based on these call ups, here is my preferred lineup

------------------------------Romero-------------------------
Zabaleta-----Fernandez------Mascherano------Monzon----
-------------------------Gago--------------------------------------
---------Banega----------------Pastore--------------------------
---------------------Messi------------------------------------------
---------Aguero--------------------Higuain-----------------------

What is going to happen

--------------------------romero----------------------------------
----Dimichellis---------Burdisso-----------Fernandez-------
-Zabaleta----Gago/Di Maria----Mascherano---Sosa------rojo
-------------------------Messi----------------------------
----------------------Higuain--------------------------

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