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Post by messixaviesta Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:44 am

Amidst all this debating I forgot to mention the four most important things.

1. Lionel Messi - Even if he has just woken up from sleep he can still produce a moment like our second goal. He is Messi, plain and simple.

2. David Villa - Is he still the best pure striker in the world? Could he have an even better season this time? What a goal!!! That goal itself justified staying awake late at night for this match.

3. Victor Valdes - About as underrated and crucial as anyone could be. Many wonderful match saving moments. Think he could have done better for the second goal we conceded? Probably not because his view was blocked by his own defenders.

4. A nice quote that I read on Twitter - "Life's not fair. 90% of the time Barca are the best team. When they're not, they still manage to win."

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Post by BarcaKizz Mon Aug 15, 2011 11:10 am

Hmm JD... I still think Xavi would have made a big difference, even if not a big enough difference. His style is different to Iniesta's. Iniesta is a beautiful player and I guess we could wait and see if he can be an engine... but this is all about discussion, and my opinion is he's not exactly that type of player... I don't think you can operate a midfield with Iniesta as an engine. Of course, Ini is world class and in other clubs you could perhaps team him up with a very big physical player who passes well (Yaya, Mikel) and maybe a more explosive worker type player (Gerrard?) and it would be a great midfield. However, in this formation even, I don't see him as the engine... but still the glossy paint Wink

JD don't hate me for this! Razz I always feel you're shaking your head at me when I talk about Iniesta lol.

I guess another thing is... at the end of the day, while we both love both players, I'm a Xaviphile and your an Iniestaphile.
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Post by messixaviesta Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:50 pm

@BarcaKizz wrote:Hmm JD... I still think Xavi would have made a big difference, even if not a big enough difference. His style is different to Iniesta's. Iniesta is a beautiful player and I guess we could wait and see if he can be an engine... but this is all about discussion, and my opinion is he's not exactly that type of player... I don't think you can operate a midfield with Iniesta as an engine. Of course, Ini is world class and in other clubs you could perhaps team him up with a very big physical player who passes well (Yaya, Mikel) and maybe a more explosive worker type player (Gerrard?) and it would be a great midfield. However, in this formation even, I don't see him as the engine... but still the glossy paint Wink

JD don't hate me for this! Razz I always feel you're shaking your head at me when I talk about Iniesta lol.

I guess another thing is... at the end of the day, while we both love both players, I'm a Xaviphile and your an Iniestaphile.

I can accept what you say to a large extent.

As for comparing with Xavi I tried to think what more he could have done last night if he was playing in place of Iniesta. One is that him being physically stronger he might have been harder to outmuscle off the ball. The other is that he could have communicated better with Thiago and Keita bringing them more on the same page. Other than these two things I couldn't think of too much more he could have done. I didn't watch the match on a good stream but from what I could see there was hardly ever any time or space to really be able to make use of the ball. With Keita and Thiago not in sync with him it was also very difficult to get the short passing game going.

Also if I had to compare Iniesta with Xavi in a similar situation then I would say at the very least Iniesta should have been 100% match fit, had Busquets alongside him instead of Thiago and preferably had Pique behind him. Without that I can hardly make a fair comparison.

As for my personal feelings, I do feel that a few of our own Barcelona fans underrate Iniesta and to be very frank it does bug me to an extent. It seems like journalists and football luminaries talk more highly of him than our own fans do for whatever reason. Then again if I try to be more rational Iniesta at least gets good amount of importance as the third best player of the team while a player like D.Alves to give just one example suffers even more from a lack of recognition. That's what happens when too many good players play in one team. Credit is shared inequitably and not totally fairly.

Yes we admire all or most of our players but it's only natural to be a little more attached to one or more compared to the rest.

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Post by windkick Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:22 pm

One thing I must say, I think Ozil is world class...and imo he is better than Ronaldo and Iker (which those 2 are also, world class and fantastic footballers). Ozil is just amazing
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Post by the xcx Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:23 pm

@windkick wrote:One thing I must say, I think Ozil is world class...and imo he is better than Ronaldo and Iker (which those 2 are also, world class and fantastic footballers). Ozil is just amazing
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Post by windkick Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:40 pm

I am, I just gave 3 R. Madrid players major props I figured you would give me kudos instead of thinking I am joking. I think Ozil is a beast and R. Madrid has a real gem in that guy
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Post by the xcx Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:52 pm

@windkick wrote:I am, I just gave 3 R. Madrid players major props I figured you would give me kudos instead of thinking I am joking. I think Ozil is a beast and R. Madrid has a real gem in that guy
Özil is good but better than a CR7 or Iker? Ur comparing Özil to ones who dosent belong to same aspect as him. Yes hes a gem, who has alot to improve, but no way is he better than CR7, not to mention CR7 isint even an midfielder.
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Post by windkick Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:07 pm

obviously all 3 play different positions, and the reason I mentioned Iker and CR7 too make sure no one thought I wasnt aslo admiring there greatness (which is just my opinion, that I think Ozil is the better of the 3...and I think that for various reasons)
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:29 pm

@windkick wrote:obviously all 3 play different positions, and the reason I mentioned Iker and CR7 too make sure no one thought I wasnt aslo admiring there greatness (which is just my opinion, that I think Ozil is the better of the 3...and I think that for various reasons)

That's really the first time any of the three played great against Barca though. Ozil was the best player on the field for Madrid by a country mile. Barca are Iker and Ronaldo's kryptonite.

PS. I know Ronaldo had a goal against us in the Copa final, but Ozil was much better yesterday then Ronaldo in that game. Ozil should of had a goal and 3 assists yesterday if Benzema knew how to head a ball.

Ozil might be one of the best buys ever for the price you got him for, he is fantastic.

I see what Windkick is saying, If I were a Madrid fan I would rather have Ozil in an important game then Ronaldo, it's close though. IMO, Ozil is what they have been missing since Zidane and with the way he passes, and control's the game you can get anyone to finish the goals off.
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Post by Albiceleste Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:35 pm

If Ronaldo didn't score in the CdR he would've been flop of the match, he missed countless opportunities IIRC.

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Post by windkick Mon Aug 15, 2011 7:45 pm

@dnmac4 wrote:
@windkick wrote:obviously all 3 play different positions, and the reason I mentioned Iker and CR7 too make sure no one thought I wasnt aslo admiring there greatness (which is just my opinion, that I think Ozil is the better of the 3...and I think that for various reasons)

That's really the first time any of the three played great against Barca though. Ozil was the best player on the field for Madrid by a country mile. Barca are Iker and Ronaldo's kryptonite.

PS. I know Ronaldo had a goal against us in the Copa final, but Ozil was much better yesterday then Ronaldo in that game. Ozil should of had a goal and 3 assists yesterday if Benzema knew how to head a ball.

Ozil might be one of the best buys ever for the price you got him for, he is fantastic.

I see what Windkick is saying, If I were a Madrid fan I would rather have Ozil in an important game then Ronaldo, it's close though. IMO, Ozil is what they have been missing since Zidane and with the way he passes, and control's the game you can get anyone to finish the goals off.

Exactly, behind every striker is a great mid fielder. Madrid had been lacking some one in mid field to not only help there strikers but also give our world class midfielders some issues...which Ozil does all that. Something Ronaldo doesnt really give TOO many problems (not saying he doesnt give us any) and Iker for the most part we get balls past him.

That said, looks like Ozil is coming in to his own, because last year Ozil didnt shine nearly this much against us as he did yesterday. Should be an exciting campaign and hopefully we don't have to meet in the Champions League again (not cause I fear R. Madrid, just too much stress when they play us lol)
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Post by Pedram Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:00 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:If Ronaldo didn't score in the CdR he would've been flop of the match, he missed countless opportunities IIRC.

Seriously what's your obsession with bashing Ronaldo ? what he did to you ?
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Post by ToEy Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:34 pm

El Pipita wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:If Ronaldo didn't score in the CdR he would've been flop of the match, he missed countless opportunities IIRC.

Seriously what's your obsession with bashing Ronaldo ? what he did to you ?

Be fair? Next time some of your fellow real madrid fans do that to Messi, ask them the same question as well Mr Saint?

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Post by Pedram Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:30 pm

@ToEy wrote:
El Pipita wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:If Ronaldo didn't score in the CdR he would've been flop of the match, he missed countless opportunities IIRC.

Seriously what's your obsession with bashing Ronaldo ? what he did to you ?

Be fair? Next time some of your fellow real madrid fans do that to Messi, ask them the same question as well Mr Saint?

LOL, you better read our section more.
Sometimes we even praise Messi more than Ronaldo and he's a Barca player FFS. we have no Messi hater in our section.
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Post by the xcx Mon Aug 15, 2011 10:33 pm

Infact I dont think we have barca haters, we or I like to think them as obstacle to success.
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Post by larisano Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:23 am

just being curious,anyone think masche can be converted into a permanent CB?It might help Argies in the long run as well, hopefully he can finally fill the hole left by a certain forgotten Roberto Ayala.
On the game, I echo jibers; we were unfit and understrength in an away game,and we still escape with an advantage in the second leg. As for Fab; he is here now, and I think we should support him and hope he is successful. Pretty obvious that our dressing room is happy that he is arrived as well. Thiago will get his chances this season as well, I am sure.
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Post by Albiceleste Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:25 am

El Pipita wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:If Ronaldo didn't score in the CdR he would've been flop of the match, he missed countless opportunities IIRC.

Seriously what's your obsession with bashing Ronaldo ? what he did to you ?
It's just an observation, what's wrong about it?

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Post by messixaviesta Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:29 am

Yes Mascherano will probably be more of a CB for Barcelona. His height is his one main disadvantage when dealing with tall attackers and aerial balls. alfred suggested the idea of him doing the same for Argentina. It could happen. The only problem is whether Argentina have enough DMs coming up to take his place. Then again his own wish could be crucial and for his country he may want to play as DM. Nice mention of Roberto Ayala - a wonderful player. Argentina are crying for a CB of that caliber since he retired.

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Post by Albiceleste Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:37 am

I don't think Ayala is forgotten, absolutely amazing CB and very unfortunate what happened to him in the Copa Final in 07. Also a Valencia great as well.

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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:19 am

@messixaviesta wrote:

As for my personal feelings, I do feel that a few of our own Barcelona fans underrate Iniesta and to be very frank it does bug me to an extent. It seems like journalists and football luminaries talk more highly of him than our own fans do for whatever reason. Then again if I try to be more rational Iniesta at least gets good amount of importance as the third best player of the team while a player like D.Alves to give just one example suffers even more from a lack of recognition. That's what happens when too many good players play in one team. Credit is shared inequitably and not totally fairly.

Yes we admire all or most of our players but it's only natural to be a little more attached to one or more compared to the rest.

Personally, I don't feel I underrate anyone in this Barca squad. I think I give them all the recognition they deserve. I even have praise for players like Maxwell and Pinto, who noone ever mentions.

I can understand what you mean though. The first reason being... there are some fans who only like Barca because they like Messi or the current crop of players. Naturally, they'll have their favourites and not really care about anyone else that much.
The second reason, I often feel the same about Xavi as you do Iniesta, simply because he's my favourite player and I find it frustrating when he isn't given enough credit.
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Post by BarcaKizz Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:22 am

@The xcx wrote:Infact I dont think we have barca haters, we or I like to think them as obstacle to success.

Completely unrelated, but referring to your avatar... Damn Coentrao has a punchable face... I don't even dislike the guy, but his head... damn.

You should change it, otherwise I just think you're a knob when you're posting lol.
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Post by messixaviesta Tue Aug 16, 2011 2:46 pm

@BarcaKizz wrote:
Personally, I don't feel I underrate anyone in this Barca squad. I think I give them all the recognition they deserve. I even have praise for players like Maxwell and Pinto, who noone ever mentions.

I can understand what you mean though. The first reason being... there are some fans who only like Barca because they like Messi or the current crop of players. Naturally, they'll have their favourites and not really care about anyone else that much.
The second reason, I often feel the same about Xavi as you do Iniesta, simply because he's my favourite player and I find it frustrating when he isn't given enough credit.

Thanks for the reply. Fair comments.

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Post by harhar11 Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:29 pm

Btw, I don't know if it has been brought up, but did anyone else hear real madrid fans make monkey noise towards alves, singing "shakira is a whore" and also shouting "raul,raul,raul" when villa was subbed(although this aint as bad as the other 2 were)

Edit:

Here's the video on spanish..

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Post by ToEy Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:30 pm

@harhar11 wrote:Btw, I don't know if it has been brought up, but did anyone else hear real madrid fans make monkey noise towards alves, singing "shakira is a whore" and also shouting "raul,raul,raul" when villa was subbed(although this aint as bad as the other 2 were)

Edit:

Here's the video on spanish..

I cant imagine them bring Shakira into this rivalry...makes me sick...together with whatever racist chants they are doing...xcx no one deserves to suffer racism, your "barca deserves it" doesn't sound in line with your "Infact I dont think we have barca haters, we or I like to think them as obstacle to success."...hypocrite

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Post by Albiceleste Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:00 am





Clearly biased referee, can't believe deluded RM fans still think the referee was against them.

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Post by Albiceleste Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:04 am

:lol!:

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