Wonder if Ethan Mbappe and the rest of the family will move to Madrid as well.

FennecFox7 wrote:Wonder if Ethan Mbappe and the rest of the family will move to Madrid as well.

He's actually really good so I doubt it. PSG's academy is far far better than Madrid's too.

Report out today that he is coming to Madrid to play on Castilla. Seems his contract will be expiring and Flo has jumped at the opportunity.

And in case you missed it, Flo has agreement with Davies and Bayern to bring him to Madrid .this summer.

Seems like most moves for next season are already done!

futbol_bill wrote:Report out today that he is coming to Madrid to play on Castilla. Seems his contract will be expiring and Flo has jumped at the opportunity.

And in case you missed it, Flo has agreement with Davies and Bayern to bring him to Madrid .this summer.

Seems like most moves for next season are already done!

OK good. I was worried about Ethan a bit. Although the PSG academy is better, too much politics and petty nonsense going on... he needs to get away.

Dumb move by PSG. Ethan is actually quite good and plays holding midfield, which is a position of need.

The issue though is that Castilla plays in a division that is significantly worse than the PSG youth team of Ethan. There's just a lot more talent because French teams invest enormously in player development (the only way they stay alive as a club).

But he can't stay in France with all the drama around his brother. I get it.

Apparently the Emir of Qater, with Macron alongside him, is making a new offer to Mbappe personally. Mbappe (and others) are having dinner with the Emir and Macron this evening.

What a travesty. Leave the kid alone.

sportsczy wrote:

futbol_bill wrote:Report out today that he is coming to Madrid to play on Castilla. Seems his contract will be expiring and Flo has jumped at the opportunity.

And in case you missed it, Flo has agreement with Davies and Bayern to bring him to Madrid .this summer.

Seems like most moves for next season are already done!

OK good.  I was worried about Ethan a bit.  Although the PSG academy is better, too much politics and petty nonsense going on...  he needs to get away.  

Dumb move by PSG.  Ethan is actually quite good and plays holding midfield, which is a position of need.  

The issue though is that Castilla plays in a division that is significantly worse than the PSG youth team of Ethan.  There's just a lot more talent because French teams invest enormously in player development (the only way they stay alive as a club).

But he can't stay in France with all the drama around his brother.  I get it.

Castilla down in third level futbol is not likely to change any time soon. This year they are in bottom half in classification. (last year they were in a playoff position). Doesn't speak too highly of Raul's coaching!

The article said they were going to allow him to practice with 1st team. What I suspect will happen will be similar to Odegaard when he first came. First year with Castilla with some practices with 1st team, then loan him out to a higher level team in 2nd year if he shows promise, and given committment to Mbappe family, it will likely be within Spain and if posible a Madrid based team.

btw, this time I would be very surprised if this dinner will have any impact on him!

sportsczy wrote:

FennecFox7 wrote:Wonder if Ethan Mbappe and the rest of the family will move to Madrid as well.

He's actually really good so I doubt it. PSG's academy is far far better than Madrid's too.

Im quoting Sport but actually wondering in general about if anyone knows about something I been wondering, which is how good exactly are the first teams in clubs in terms of behind the scenes workings in general, as in the training, personnel, facilities n prolly most important just the quality of everything they provide to the first team players?

Im prolly struggling to make sense but what I mean is ppl talk about some clubs having great academy for developing young players, Im just wondering how is the equivalent when it comes to just the first team. I just know when the top clubs hire a new manager he would bring his own teams of essential staff? So meaning the top clubs might have completely different people running things for the first team every year if talking about the likes of Chelsea? Or is it more stable than that where most of the staff who supports the first team are more stable n dont move with the come n go of managers?

I hope im making sense..

@futbol_bill, In fairness to raul i remember zidane coaching castilla and people who watch castilla were bashing him a lot and ofcourse @sportsczy coming to his defense at every turn. We saw how zidane turned out when he took over the first team. Most successful Madrid manager in the last 30 years. So you never know. I don't watch castilla (nor youth football) but i don't look at it as a standard to judge coaches.

I think it simply is an opportunity for them to teach young players good habits and for coaches to learn about management without having their job be in jeopardy. Not saying Raul will or won't be a top coach, but castilla isn't the tool to rate him with.

This is a trend btw with PSG's legends leaving badly:

Silva, Ibra, Cavani, Neymar, Verratti... and now Mbappe. Even Di Maria was ostracized in the end.

With that ownership, you're either in their plans and treated great, or out of their plans and thrown to the curb. PSG can never become a big club until they create a culture with their legends. Right now, none of these guys want anything to do with the club once they leave.

Very weird.

@tito - Zidane is a very unique case because of his status and personality. I don't think he should be used as an example. Too unique.

titosantill wrote:@futbol_bill, In fairness to raul i remember zidane coaching castilla and people who watch castilla were bashing him a lot and ofcourse @sportsczy coming to his defense at every turn. We saw how zidane turned out when he took over the first team. Most successful Madrid manager in the last 30 years. So you never know. I don't watch castilla (nor youth football) but i don't look at it as a standard to judge coaches.

I think it simply is an opportunity for them to teach young players good habits and for coaches to learn about management without having their job be in jeopardy. Not saying Raul will or won't be a top coach, but castilla isn't the tool to rate him with.

Tito, i make the comment only as a comparison to Xabi Alonso. They both started their coaching careers at same level and Xabi had an immediate impact. They got promoted and then they did reasonable well at 2nd level. That launched his venture to Germany and now there is little doubt that he is a good coach.

At one point when Carlo didn’t  seem to be coming back, the two contenders were said to be Raul and Xabi. Little doubt now as to who has proven himself. I agree winning isn’t necessarily important but a coaching prospect needs experience. Zidane is the exception not the rule and yet Zidane also was assistant to Mourinho on 1st team. I have been saying the biggest mistake Xavi made was not getting the experience before going to a big club. That Saudi team was no better than 3rd level futbol. Raul had a chance this season to go to la liga 1st division and turned it down. All 3 of these guys were in same coaching class and thus reason I’m making the comparisons. They all may make it as a good coach, but they need to get proven experience first.

Btw, That class also had Arbeloa, Guti, Baptista, Senna and Capdevila and Valdes.

I don't disagree with that. My point is, as long as you're in castilla or in a youth framework, we can't really say it does or doesn't speak highly of their coaching. We know more about their coaching once they leave and are in charge of professional club sides. I had to use zidane as an example cos he might be the only youth coach that sparked some sort of debate on here when he was a youth coach. Right now, raul is basically baby-sitting, cos i'm very sure we'll be loaning a bunch of castilla guys out or setting up buy back deals.

La liga needs to start paying us for all the youth prospects we lend other clubs. We'll need to see him in a first team to know, and maybe he's just not ready, nothing wrong in taking time to learn. Gerrard was heralded as this and that after his rangers success, and now people forget it ever happened.

There is another example besides Zidane, Pep. But that B team was good, much better than Castilla and I think was in 2nd for some of his time there. But again it’s an exception not a rule.

Back to Raul, he seemed to reject the offer to coach in la liga, thinking he had a shot after Ancelotti left. Good thing Carlo is staying as it would have been Xabi not him. If he truly wants a coaching career he needs to go out and get some real experience. Guti or Arbeloa can easily take over his role at Castilla. And he may not be given an opportunity with a 1st division team. Probably best to try a decent 2nd division team.

And re compensation re helping out other teams, not as long as Tebas is running la liga.

Why is Real first team so good in recent yrs, of cos I mean apart from the actual players... is it just coincidence that Real have had a run of good coaches n hence their teams or is it something within the club itself? Still Im wondering if its just like the youth academy at some clubs are just better... if Real's setup behind the scenes supporting the first team just better than other clubs? All the players are so damn fit strong n skillful

BarcaLearning wrote:Why is Real first team so good in recent yrs, of cos I mean apart from the actual players... is it just coincidence that Real have had a run of good coaches n hence their teams or is it something within the club itself? Still Im wondering if its just like the youth academy at some clubs are just better... if Real's setup behind the scenes supporting the first team just better than other clubs? All the players are so damn fit strong n skillful

I could tell you, but we like to keep it a secret particularly to cules and fans!

When Mourinho came to Madrid, he completely changed the scouting and sporting culture at Real Madrid. Jose Angel Sanchez was the person in charge of making the change, chosen by Mourinho and accepted by Flo Perez.

Before that, it was an absolute disaster.

That's the reason Real Madrid is suddenly making rational football decisions since 2010 as opposed to the craziness in terms of both player transactions and managerial changes before.

I see... Mou He has done some great in those earlier yrs I dunno but ppl talk about great famous youth academies, but Reals first team equivalent if theres a name for it deserves a similar reputation for they are producing in the last decade or so...

BarcaLearning wrote:I see... Mou He has done some great in those earlier yrs I dunno but ppl talk about great famous youth academies, but Reals first team equivalent if theres a name for it deserves a similar reputation for they are producing in the last decade or so...

Real usually develops good players that end up in mid-table teams. A lot of them. The reason they are not mentioned as a top academy is because Castilla hasn't produced top players.

PSG's academy has produced Coman, Nkunku, Rabiot, Zaire Emery, and Mike Maignan currently. Xavi Simmons is one that's going to turn into a star too IMO. In the recent past, you had Anelka and Evra as world-class players.

Monaco and Lyon have produced a ton of stars too.

Barca of course in Spain.

I think that the clubs that commit to playing academy players get the best youth. Real Madrid just isn't that for good reason. Hence, the academy doesn't get the best talent. You need success stories to market to kids' parent.

Also very hard to convince kids to play for Castilla given that it plays in a very weak league.

Mike Maignan happens to be the 2nd best goalkeeper in the world. PSG's youth system is lights out amongst the best.

The city itself is overflowing with talent. See some of the shit people in Seine-saint-denis play.

Arquitecto wrote:Mike Maignan happens to be the 2nd best goalkeeper in the world. PSG's youth system is lights out amongst the best.

The city itself is overflowing with talent. See some of the shit people in Seine-saint-denis play.

And that's the reason I'm extremely surprised at Mbappe's treatment.  Mbappe's father runs most of the youth academies in Paris and has done so for three decades.  He feeds PSG a lot of its talent (as well as other big clubs in France).  Why would you ostracize him?

Wow... so Mbappe n Haalands dads basically produced the worlds best 2 for this era, huge credit they deserve

Not exactly what I was trying to ask...I was more wondering about the actual first team only instead of the youth academies or the young players... like how the top clubs currently are doing it example Man C or Real... is it all down to Peps n Ancelotti's teams or is there more to it than just them? On the other hand, its clear likes of Man U n Barca first teams have fallen behind, n Im not just talking about the players, its something else, perhaps like CR complained after he left them that Man U are outdated... although could be just his excuse

BarcaLearning wrote:Wow... so Mbappe n Haalands dads basically produced the worlds best 2 for this era, huge credit they deserve

Not exactly what I was trying to ask...I was more wondering about the actual first team only instead of the youth academies or the young players... like how the top clubs currently are doing it example Man C or Real... is it all down to Peps n Ancelotti's teams or is there more to it than just them? On the other hand, its clear likes of Man U n Barca first teams have fallen behind, n Im not just talking about the players, its something else, perhaps like CR complained after he left them that Man U are outdated... although could be just his excuse

I'm just assuming, but it seems to me like some top clubs have been underestimating having a strong system of people who are dedicated to scouting and acquiring young talents for their academies. Man United may have acquired some people for those roles since Radcliffe entered the picture, but they evidently thought it was fine to not have a sporting director for an entire decade.

Pep brought his team with him from Bayern to Man City, and it's been doing wonders for their academy. I had never heard of Oscar Bobb (who's Norwegian) before he made his debut for City's first team. Apparently, he's been a standout player for their academy since he joined it 2-3 years ago. He's only 20, but I've been mighty impressed by what he's shown for the first team so far. I don't know if he'll be a first team starter in the future. He'll probably remain a rotational player under Pep, but they will have saved a ton of money on a top player if he doesn't go the Scott Palmer route - and even if he does, they will earn a profit anyway.

BarcaLearning wrote:Wow... so Mbappe n Haalands dads basically produced the worlds best 2 for this era, huge credit they deserve

Not exactly what I was trying to ask...I was more wondering about the actual first team only instead of the youth academies or the young players... like how the top clubs currently are doing it example Man C or Real... is it all down to Peps n Ancelotti's teams or is there more to it than just them? On the other hand, its clear likes of Man U n Barca first teams have fallen behind, n Im not just talking about the players, its something else, perhaps like CR complained after he left them that Man U are outdated... although could be just his excuse

You know who else that plays today was under Mbappe's father at Bondy? Kolo Muani, Saliba and Ikoné.

sportsczy wrote:

Arquitecto wrote:Mike Maignan happens to be the 2nd best goalkeeper in the world. PSG's youth system is lights out amongst the best.

The city itself is overflowing with talent. See some of the shit people in Seine-saint-denis play.

And that's the reason I'm extremely surprised at Mbappe's treatment.  Mbappe's father runs most of the youth academies in Paris and has done so for three decades.  He feeds PSG a lot of its talent (as well as other big clubs in France).  Why would you ostracize him?

Not to generalise but having done enough business with the Emiratis they could not give less of a fuck of any cultural value, loyalty or merit, for if you are growing up around endless pools of money, anything is disposable hence why their ratio of success to the money spent, is actually very low.

The best airlines in the world are Qatar airways and emirates for example but all cater to anything but their own "culture" which is a bastardisation of Saudi Arabian culture. Place is a desert at best and like current China their money is their God therefore etiquette is a bit behind them.

This isn't romanticisation as loyalty and to fans and all are meaningless terms, but Emirati owners with indifference to the club and country ethos in any sport won't care for anything unless it merits quick results.

Why Im well off the PSG boat and want the Lyons and Marseilles to BTFO PSG back to their irrelevance.

Careful with underestimating or throwing shade at Real Madrid's La Fabrica.

The Centre International d'Etude du Sport, a pretty serious and respectable Swiss research and education organization cofounded by FIFA in the mid 90s has, for at least the last twelve years (that's when I first started looking at their yearly youth academy rankings), consistently placed Real Madrid's youth academy as top 1 or 2 in the world when it comes to producing talent that plays across the top 5 European leagues (England, Spain, Italy, Germany, France).  

As per their parameters, "Training clubs are those where players have been for at least three years between the ages of 15 and 21 (including the seasons of the 15th and 21st birthdays)."

For the 2023 rankings published in October 2023:

https://football-observatory.com/WeeklyPost436

- Real Madrid's academy is the best in the world at producing players that play in the top 5 European leagues (best leagues in the world). In comparison, the oh so lauded Ajax academy comes in at 15th place and PSG comes in at 5th place, with a deficit of almost  20 players when compared to Madrid's output.

- Real Madrid's academy is in the top 10 in the world (9th place) when it comes to producing players that play in the top 31 European leagues.

- Real Madrid's academy is 14th in the world when it comes to producing players that play in the top 48 leagues in the world.

For those last two placements Real Madrid is mostly overtaken by relatively much smaller clubs from Portugal, Eastern Europe, and South America that have youth academies that are structured differently with different purposes in mind. These clubs economically rely on their factories producing lower-range talent in bulk.

Considering the context of Real Madrid's place in the world and its needs, having the most prolific academy in the world at producing talent for the best leagues in the world is very nice. Could things still be done better? Of course, and surely they will be.

The PSG academy comes out at #23 for producing top 48 league players and #14 when it comes to top 31 European league players.