As long as Real Madrid supports this superleague crap...

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Post by Doc Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:09 am

@titosantill wrote:florentino has always been chasing don santiago bernabeu; similar to lebron chasing mike. most major moves flo has taken comes from don santiago's play book. i can think of about 4 right off the top of my head. tbh i dont know much of what this entails , i just hope it doesnt mean more unnecessary games for players. they are not machines

Yeah, pretty much Tito. Flo, to me, has been doing his very best to not just emulate Don Santiago but eclipse him his legacy.

The ESL is basically his answer to the European Cup. I wonder if it had the same reaction though...

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Post by sportsczy Tue Apr 20, 2021 2:59 am

@Doc wrote:
@titosantill wrote:florentino has always been chasing don santiago bernabeu; similar to lebron chasing mike. most major moves flo has taken comes from don santiago's play book. i can think of about 4 right off the top of my head. tbh i dont know much of what this entails , i just hope it doesnt mean more unnecessary games for players. they are not machines

Yeah, pretty much Tito. Flo, to me, has been doing his very best to not just emulate Don Santiago but eclipse him his legacy.

The ESL is basically his answer to the European Cup. I wonder if it had the same reaction though...

Don Santiago worked with UEFA to create something that never existed... and it started out as an exhibition tournament that developed into what it is today.

This abortion isn't about progress or creating something new. It's about preserving the power structure of the old.

The comparison is awful.
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Post by Doc Tue Apr 20, 2021 3:56 am

Well, I didn't say the ESL is the European Cup but this is Flo's answer to Don Santiago's European Cup. The man, to me, is clearly trying to eclipse the man's accomplishments which are legendary, almost mythical at this point.

I don't agree with the ESL but Flo is doing what he believes would benefit the club the most, something Don Santiago did when he position the club to be one of the best clubs in the world.

I wouldn't see a single Euro from whatever revenue is coming out of this but I'll be a Madrid fan whether it be in some Oligarchic league or relegated because of bankruptcy.
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Post by sportsczy Tue Apr 20, 2021 4:25 am

I couldn't fully support OM or Juve anymore because of their match-fixing scandals... I got over it with OM because the club was sold to new ownership. Not with Juve though. Same corrupt family owns that club and the apple hasn't fallen too far from the tree it seems.

This falls right in line with those. As long as Fiorentino Perez has anything to do with Real Madrid, it's done for me.
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Post by The Madrid One Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:17 am

After everything that has transpired it definitely feels stronger than ever that the club is Florentino Perez Club de Futbol and that something has to be done about this. Perez won't resign and he won't get booted, not even close, that whole process is a sham to begin with.

The Super League idea was a joke and the execution and presentation of it was worse still and as the Chairman of the whole thing Perez ends up looking like a clown and the crest has been stained. Good damage limitations have to be put in place soon and hopefully we win this year's CL.
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Post by sportsczy Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:25 am

If Perez has any self-respect, he resigns after this fiasco...
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Post by The Madrid One Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:30 am

He won't resign, he had been planning this for years (embarrassing), thinks he's in the right and will probably be only more entrenched now, he has no real pressure from the socio system, and a lot of those socios (and Spanish Real Madrid fans in genereal) eat from the palm of his hands anyways, take what he says as Gospel, and are placing him as a martyr. Perez IS Real Madrid for a lot of people.
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Post by titosantill Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:25 am

he won't based on everything @ themadridone said, and the fact that there are no opponents. dude who was supposed to oppose backed out. that being said, i dont think this is any reason to resign, true he has ended up with egg on his face, but this was always his dream....lets not forget the first time he brought up this idea was in like 2002. those who really shamed themselves are the teams who joined first and after the pressure backed out. and someone like agnelli who said one thing and in no time at all did something else. was a good trending topic whilst it lasted, and good on the active players who chose to speak out

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Post by sportsczy Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:17 am

this has consequences though tito...  the influence of Real Madrid with other clubs and in Europe is greatly eroded.  The club has lost credibility every which way you look at it.  

1-  If I'm a club that signed on, I would have expected that the PR of the superleague would be handled better by its president (Flo).  Given the disastrous timing of the announcement (why not wait after the season since the contract with UEFA runs until 2024) and the way it was positioned (smaller clubs rely on our crumbs)... i'd back out too.  

2- There are already rumblings in France that, given the PR nightmare that is now Real Madrid, Mbappe cannot join.  His brand would actually be tarnished internationally and he would be hated in France if he joined Real Madrid and that's very important to him.  I'm sure that is also the case with the other elite players... not that Madrid could afford any of them apparently.

3-  He's put Zidane and the players in an awful position.  Madrid is always hated... but respected.  Now the club is scorned and deserves no respect (rightly so).  I'm also fairly certain that UEFA will go out of its way to make the officiating as biased against Madrid as possible in the upcoming CL games.

4-  Sponsoring Real Madrid by international brands has now become toxic at least in the short run. Even if the club is still attractive to sponsors, the price just went down exponentially.

5- What Flo did doesn't inspire parents or kids to follow Real Madrid. The club relies on many players idolizing the club growing up. I'm sure they will idolize the players still... but not the club. Real Madrid has eroded its brand this way as well, with the consequences being merchandising and future attractiveness to players that are kids today.

This is disastrous every which way you look at it.
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Post by titosantill Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:53 am

salient points but still not grounds for dismissal nor resignation. the comeback from this is more important imo. success leads to short term memories- if the project on the pitch does well, this little fiasco will be ignored (not forgotten) by most in no time. besides, i think florentino is really passionate about this for whatever reason....its probably just back to the drawing board for him
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Post by The Madrid One Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:21 am

Dear lord... now is the time that the Real Madrid legend-led coup on the RM presidency that used to be talked about years ago finally happens. Have club legends and "socios" Manolo Sanchis and Iker Casillas team up with famous socios like Carlos Sainz and Rafael Nadal (think he's a socio) and other members that can help provide the monetary requirements set forth by the sham presidency rules and have them launch a strong PR attack that leads to elections and an overthrow of Perez.
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Post by titosantill Wed Apr 21, 2021 6:23 am

problem with you suggestion is the presidential requirement from a financial standpoint isnt set up for a group to meet said requirements. its set up for one president and for that individual to have certain years and certain $ or euros in their personal holdings, not a conglomerate, cartel or group. enrique riquelme dropped out cos of timing....but as i said, still not cause for resignation imo
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Post by futbol_bill Wed Apr 21, 2021 2:13 pm

Besides Perez just got reelected by acclamation last week. He’s there for another 4 years!
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Post by The Madrid One Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:54 am

@titosantill wrote:problem with you suggestion is the presidential requirement from a financial standpoint isnt set up for a group to meet said requirements. its set up for one president and for that individual to have certain years and certain $ or euros in their personal holdings, not a conglomerate, cartel or group. enrique riquelme dropped out cos of timing....but as i said, still not cause for resignation imo
It's the President AND board of directors who have the financial obligation, not just one person. In any case, a delirious Perez was on El Larguero today and basically confirmed that the socio system is a sham and that he's staying.
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Post by Perucho21 Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:13 am

Flo isn't resigning his image to fans outside Real Madrid has taken a huge hit (although he wasn't ever the most likeable club leader from fans around the world) but as long he's come back down to planet earth and handling madrid business idc about the world press
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Post by sportsczy Thu Apr 22, 2021 2:21 am

Florence Punani has become Donald Trump.
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Post by titosantill Thu Apr 22, 2021 5:59 am

@The Madrid One wrote:
@titosantill wrote:problem with you suggestion is the presidential requirement from a financial standpoint isnt set up for a group to meet said requirements. its set up for one president and for that individual to have certain years and certain $ or euros in their personal holdings, not a conglomerate, cartel or group. enrique riquelme dropped out cos of timing....but as i said, still not cause for resignation imo
It's the President AND board of directors who have the financial obligation, not just one person. In any case, a delirious Perez was on El Larguero today and basically confirmed that the socio system is a sham and that he's staying.


no "A candidate must have been a Real Madrid member or socio for at least 20 years and must have sufficient personal wealth to be able to obtain a bank guarantee worth at least 15% of the club's budget". not a group, not a board, but a candidate. and its for the second reason many have backed out. there's nothing like people pooling their money together to form a group to take over....its a presidency, not a cartel nor a "super league" lol.

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Post by The Madrid One Thu Apr 22, 2021 3:13 pm

@titosantill wrote:
@The Madrid One wrote:
@titosantill wrote:problem with you suggestion is the presidential requirement from a financial standpoint isnt set up for a group to meet said requirements. its set up for one president and for that individual to have certain years and certain $ or euros in their personal holdings, not a conglomerate, cartel or group. enrique riquelme dropped out cos of timing....but as i said, still not cause for resignation imo
It's the President AND board of directors who have the financial obligation, not just one person. In any case, a delirious Perez was on El Larguero today and basically confirmed that the socio system is a sham and that he's staying.


no "A candidate must have been a Real Madrid member or socio for at least 20 years and must have sufficient personal wealth to be able to obtain a bank guarantee worth at least 15% of the club's budget". not a group, not a board, but a candidate. and its for the second reason many have backed out. there's nothing like people pooling their money together to form a group to take over....its a presidency, not a cartel nor a "super league" lol.

No, the money guarantee is provided by the President together with the socio board of directors.

Throughout pages pages 18 and 19 of the official social statutes used by the so called socios:

https://www.realmadrid.com/socios/carnet-de-socio/estatutos-sociales

Particularly on page 19, Article 40 Part C Point 4, it talks about how the money guarantee ,or "aval," involves all the board members, but this point is made clear in multiple points throughout the mentioned pages.

"En dicho aval deberá hacerse constar por la Entidad de Crédito, Banco o Caja de Ahorros que lo emita, que el mismo ha sido concedido teniendo en cuenta el patrimonio personal de los candidatos, y con la única y exclusiva garantía del patrimonio personal de dichos candidatos a la Junta Directiva."

"In said guarantee, the Credit Institution (Bank or Savings Bank that issues it) must state, that it has been granted taking into account the personal assets of the candidates, and with the sole and exclusive guarantee of the personal assets of said candidates to the Board of Directors."
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Post by Nivash Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:25 pm

It refers to the personal assets of the candidates, which personal assets need to be exclusively guaranteed to the board of directors, no that the board members need to contribute to the guarantee

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Post by titosantill Fri Apr 23, 2021 7:00 am

@madridone its personal assets; if it were a conglomerate then any tom dick and harry would have contributed to run....its actually the major reason uncle flo runs unopposed. there is actually even a dollar value (cant remember how much it is off the top of my head)....lol i remember either calderon or the last guy who attempted to run (cant remember his name) crying about this like 10 years ago
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Post by The Madrid One Sat Apr 24, 2021 1:32 am

The whole money guarantee spiel involves the president together with the socio board of directors, that's what it says in the club's statutes,

That's what it says in this very recent video that Tifo Football made about how RM works,



That's what comes out of Perez's own mouth in this video where  he's (poorly) confronted about how his changes to RM's statutes are terrible,



That's what is understood in Spain when journalists write about RM elections,

https://as.com/futbol/2021/04/02/primera/1617386140_447013.html

etc, etc.

In the example involving legend socios that I mentioned above I never said anything about outside conglomerates, I was talking about the general idea that socios like Casillas and Sanchis could team up with another 15 or so socio board of directors in an attempt to try to satisfy the ridiculous monetary stipulations set forth in what we can call the "Florentino Corleone Stipulations."

There's a dense and extensive can of worms that can be opened about the subject of how the RM ownership/voting/election structure currently works but the way I see it it's a sham for multiple reasons and the Tifo Football video kinda touches on it.

Bilbao, Osasuna, FC Barcelona, and Real Madrid are the last clubs in Spain to be "owned" by their socios and they all follow ownership guidelines based on laws stipulated in 1990, but what's unique about Real Madrid's current case is that Florentino Corleone amended the Real Madrid statutes in 2012 so as to make the Madrid throne room a tight, manipulated, and cynical aristocracy.

Details can be found in articles such as these

https://ctxt.es/es/20210401/Deportes/35692/florentino-perez-real-madrid-elecciones-requisitos.htm

https://www.elmundo.es/deportes/futbol/2021/04/02/6065cb6dfdddff5c458b45cb.html

https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes/futbol/2017-06-19/real-madrid-elecciones-presidencia-candidatura-unica-florentino-perez-jeque_1401453/

At the end of the day there should be stronger checks and balances sort of governance structures in the club that offer more realistic and democratic access to the presidency, more accountability on the president, and more direct oversight, power, and voice to the socios and the elected "socios compromisarios" which vote for the socios in the general assemblies. Since there's none of this Perez has ran unopposed for 12 years and the oversight of the socios seems poor.

There is also talk of nepotism, bribery, and corruption regarding the general assemblies and other aspects of RM's executive world but as I said, it's a can of worms. Telling that when slightly confronted about any of this Corleone always pulls convenient and manipulative demagoguery, as in the video above.
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Post by Doc Sat Apr 24, 2021 4:33 pm

Uhhh, Perez isn't resigning and I am almost certain there is no pressure for him to resign. I feel Sports may have skipped the section of Madrid's history that shows that this club, since Santiago Bernabeu took over, only cares for its own well being and everything else can f off. A real "fuck you, I got mine" attitude.

Now here is the scary part, to me, anyway. No one is above the club, it has always been like that long before I became a fan. But Perez has been leveraging his position to ensure that doesn't apply to him. At all. In another time, Perez would have been pressured to resign by now but in this current version, nah. By now a Marca article would have done been released talking about resigning.

Anyway, this shit ain't over and they are gonna come back with the ESL again but for the very least, there are Madrid fans who actually disagree to this.
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Post by titosantill Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:22 pm

the 15 percent rule applies to 'a candidiate' not a team of socios. we aren't talking about running the club; but rather elections. if that was correct, dont you think there would have been more elections? just cos tifo says it doesn't mean he's correct (he's speaking specific to running the club than elections)

https://www.espn.com/soccer/real-madrid/story/4357229/florentino-perez-named-real-madrid-president-for-four-more-years-after-unopposed-election

it says 'a candidate' not a candidate and his socios nor a group of socios. and it says must have 'personal' wealth. if it was actually a group why do you think nobody has thought of combining their assets to run lol, its not like its rocket science. tbh i actually like the requirements set in place.

from a hypothetical standpoint, lets say ure idea rang true and a group of individuals pooled moneys together to run or back a candidate; the question becomes who is really running the club? is it the puppet candidate they backed or the person who contributed the most? at least with florentino, when things go wrong, we know who we can call out. even this article u posted

https://www.elconfidencial.com/deportes/futbol/2017-06-19/real-madrid-elecciones-presidencia-candidatura-unica-florentino-perez-jeque_1401453/ confirms exactly my point, that the 15percent is not a group of socios but one person. from that same article it even asks "How many Spaniards with 20 years old as real madrid partners have a personal wealth that allows you to submit a pre-guarantee of 77 million euros"?

actually all the articles u posted bar the tifos https://www.elmundo.es/deportes/futbol/2021/04/02/6065cb6dfdddff5c458b45cb.html confirm my point; its personal wealth guarantee....if we all pool together to do something, that's not personal wealth- that's a contribution; unlike personal wealth, u cant do with that money as you please....i get people are mad at flo, but when i see how poorly la liga and serie a teams hell even epl teams have been run over the last 30 or so years, i'm cool with the terms and conditions
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