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Post by rincon on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:21 am

Inter is a joke

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Post by Arquitecto on Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:53 am

I do not directly disagree with you Jesp as my support for Maldini is a little more subjective than I usually would admit. But where he has stumbled he has succeeded as well and do feel if given more time, he will and has, evolved into a strong leader in the club but yes his eye for players does not fit well with the coach he has on board. If he is ready for 2024 then I sincerely hope so. Boban is another loss I am not happy about, for that matter.


Rangnick is not a problem in my mind as Ive always liked him and he is somewhat what we've always needed but just that combination of Rangnick and Gazidis in their very parallel vision is what bothers me.


I do not see how Rangnick should have as much power as he did and the only one who succeeded at that as of recent is Alex Ferguson.


Ibra him now definitely unsettled and even though he is by no means a long term presence but his results when on the pitch for us are obvious and he is most like to leave end of the season anyway.


I hope I am proven wrong on all this, of course. But immediate results we cannot expect let alone for the next 2-3 seasons.
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Post by JespSwe on Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:19 am

@Arquitecto wrote:I do not directly disagree with you Jesp as my support for Maldini is a little more subjective than I usually would admit. But where he has stumbled he has succeeded as well and do feel if given more time, he will and has, evolved into a strong leader in the club but yes his eye for players does not fit well with the coach he has on board. If he is ready for 2024 then I sincerely hope so. Boban is another loss I am not happy about, for that matter.


Rangnick is not a problem in my mind as Ive always liked him and he is somewhat what we've always needed but just that combination of Rangnick and Gazidis in their very parallel vision is what bothers me.


I do not see how Rangnick should have as much power as he did and the only one who succeeded at that as of recent is Alex Ferguson.


Ibra him now definitely unsettled and even though he is by no means a long term presence but his results when on the pitch for us are obvious and he is most like to leave end of the season anyway.


I hope I am proven wrong on all this, of course. But immediate results we cannot expect let alone for the next 2-3 seasons.


i understand arq - i also want to see maldini be a successful figure as much as he did as a player. but someone has to take a responsibility, i wouldn't say blame - but as in does people in management maldini included has what it takes to assess this team and make things right - on sporting weakness and make righteous and drastic measures.

there was some info in milannews.it about maldini would be back at some point if he leaves now because he is wanted to spearhead the project (if LVHM takeover is true with allegri as coach). scarconi was giving those hints, maldini was talking about how his commitment to club is not a question and that he would be back. i wish could pull that link anyway dunno to what degree it will happen but whats what i understood.

as far as rangnick and gazidis goes - again thats another big question mark but atleast the problem fundamentally is sporting more than economical for now because - our economic gains are mostly tied to results on the field. i would be hugely concerned if gazidis starts selling all our creams to top teams though once rangnick is on the helm.

ibra concern is understandable because it is publicly well know to all of us by now that both rangnick and gazidis want young team wihch means ibra is not favored - ibra has fully earned his right to say what he wants and do what he wants so for that - no matter what he says i dont think anyone has right to argue his case cuz he is a winner. but more i think about it like when ibra is in our team our players tend to hide under him ...
like this team wins because of ibra and without him milan is toothless - that has not happened now fortunately but our team needs to be a team capable of doing with or without ibra next season.

me too man - end of the day we are on the same side its part of healthy argument in our milan family you and i inlcuded  - we bring this up cuz we all want milan to win and win big. i also hope i am wrong and that whoever leads - takes milan to success. i dont mind rangnick or maldini - lets just hope that milan do make fundamental changes and cast out weakness - again this current squad we have is not to be trusted. i am too afraid that though if maldini stays and rangnick doesnt sign after all we will loop to same things that we faced last year, and his emotional outbursts publicly is something i am very surprised to hear of late.

the scrutiny is on rangnick too no exception - he can take over milan or even go to any top german teams like bayern it will be the same. nowadays signing papers w/ 3 or 4 years deal means nothing if performance doesn't come by on field. its on field whether that 3 or 4 years deal would be valid


Last edited by JespSwe on Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:24 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by JespSwe on Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:22 am

@rincon wrote:Inter is a joke


robes gone afk XD
the first 20 mins verona went relentless though ; to inter defense - that goes same to other teams also verona plays very well on the midfield they are not really easily inimidated and amrabat what a player !

juric came out and said we copied atalanta XD its true they been playing bit more like them
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Post by rincon on Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:47 pm

Ibra blasted Gazidis and co. he is gone.

His problem surely isnt that Milan wants a young team, it's that Ibra wants a winning team, and Gazidis/Rangnick are downgrading expectations.
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Post by JespSwe on Fri Jul 10, 2020 6:06 pm

@rincon wrote:Ibra blasted Gazidis and co. he is gone.

His problem surely isnt that Milan wants a young team, it's that Ibra wants a winning team, and Gazidis/Rangnick are downgrading expectations.


thats understandable; on one hand maldini wants experiencd players but affording to bring players like thiago silva who is asking for 6 million per year is something we cant afford - or modric - they are not even 32 ..
and at this economic climate our club has to be realistic on what can be afforded what cant be - we are not juve in terms of what we generate..

this is one of the reason why scarconi came out recently and said ok we will have stadium built in 4 years so that we will have good renevue to afford players we hadnt been able to. if elliot were to sell milan this would be least of the problem but since they aren't, we just have to suck it up unfortunately. im not liking it either.

there are two camps at milan - the sooner either one of them settles the better. i still believe rangnick would be better choice than maldini - again i m done with big investments failing big time. no one talks about how in last 2-3 years ago milan spent more than inter.
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Post by rincon on Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:45 am

The problem is that it is not Maldini vs Rangnick.

Its Boban, Maldini, Coach vs Rangnick.

I'm firmly against giving a coach all the power like that. To remove the sporting director is to forgo long term vision at the club, or to completely submit your long term vision to your coach. Which is extremely risky for a club on the balance like Milan.

What happens if Rangnick doesnt get results on the field? Do you sack and are left with an incomplete project you have to scrap? Or do you stay with him regardless in a losing project and make him unsackable?

IMO Milan doesnt have the finances to afford this luxury gamble. Specially not for a coach with no experience in Serie A, or a stacked trophy cabinet.
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Post by JespSwe on Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:32 am

@rincon wrote:The problem is that it is not Maldini vs Rangnick.

Its Boban, Maldini, Coach vs Rangnick.

I'm firmly against giving a coach all the power like that. To remove the sporting director is to forgo long term vision at the club, or to completely submit your long term vision to your coach. Which is extremely risky for a club on the balance like Milan.

What happens if Rangnick doesnt get results on the field? Do you sack and are left with an incomplete project you have to scrap? Or do you stay with him regardless in a losing project and make him unsackable?

IMO Milan doesnt have the finances to afford this luxury gamble. Specially not for a coach with no experience in Serie A, or a stacked trophy cabinet.


i think quite the opposite. Rangnick with his power to get players of his choice can implement the ideas and philosophies of his own instead of having to fight with multiple people at the top of the food chain with more or less same job to approve it - example: igil tare of lazio but ok he is not coach but has a better power to assess team and get what he wants instead of having to go through debating with lot of people. again i firmly believe this is one of the reason why igil tare didnt sign up with milan then we went for ricky masara instead of Roma and boy he was right!


Also, we saw exactly what happened when players were brought or failed assessment against what exactly gattuso demanded - or to extend what giampaolo wanted.lets not forget gattuso said if maldini stays i will leave. he even said he will be back after giampaolo's sacking under the condiition that maldini is not in helm. its a tell that both of them didn't get along with the choices going forward with the team.

like i said, rangnick wont get exception if he fails to deliver. he should well know ahead that what he is upon - this milan is in chaos and he has very short time in fact no time at all to fix it - importantly as long as he knows the obvious weakness and brings those who has what it takes to play at our club im game. its a risk ur right if he fails then we are left with someone to inherit incomplete project but is it what it is now currently? like what has our current management done it right when it comes to sporting decision? i only ask that whatever decision they take they take ownership to problems right or wrong.

also lets not forget that rangnick deal is not tied or signed. there are some sources telling that rangnick still could choose to have pioli as coach for next season. rangnick first choice however is believed to be naglesmann from RB leipzig.

anyway it is not a luxury gamble quite the opposite. rangnick hasn't demanded big budget signings - though he is given in the vicinity of 85 million + 25% of sales from outgoing players. i refuse to believe or jump into conclusion that just because he is not serie a coach doesnt mean he cant deliver. given that we blew 40 million on piatek, 40 million plus bonuses on paqueta, it would make sense if we see something different.
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Post by Warrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:29 am

Predicted line up i saw (Around Turin it's a great account)

Pjanic in front of the defense huh. Tired of this. We have Matuidi who can get balls back, useless in creation. Pjanic is the opposite

I consider this a tough match we won't be able to sit back

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Post by JespSwe on Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:01 am

@Warrior wrote:Predicted line up i saw (Around Turin it's a great account)

Pjanic in front of the defense huh. Tired of this. We have Matuidi who can get balls back, useless in creation. Pjanic is the opposite

I consider this a tough match we won't be able to sit back

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what was the previous line up juve had against atalanta?
though, looks like juve midfield 3 that trio will have to soak a lot of pressure coming from atalanta's attack + wingbacks. think for juve individual quality will be handy to make a difference for ya all dybala ronaldo.
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Post by Warrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 10:25 am

Yes that's my fear. The individual quality Ronaldo + Dybala as you said, crossing fingers it will prevail. Atalanta are a bunch of tenacious mfs, those 2 "mid-full backs" triangles against them makes me nervous, more the left flank than the right


@rincon wrote:Ibra blasted Gazidis and co. he is gone.

His problem surely isnt that Milan wants a young team, it's that Ibra wants a winning team, and Gazidis/Rangnick are downgrading expectations.



I wonder if... hmm hmm oh it would be great
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Post by Casciavit on Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:08 am

So I've been been reading around and it seems like Conte is bitching as per usual. If he had Messi and Ronaldo as his front two he would still moan to the media. The guy should put more effort about learning how to pass the CL group stages than publicly shaming the directors who have done a fine job for him in the market so far. I can't wait until Inter cuts ties with him and Allegri ends up winning them the league to shut him up again.
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Post by Casciavit on Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:30 am

It really is amazing how well Atalanta are doing considering the team at hand. Gasperini is the coach getting the most out of his team in the top 5 leagues IMO.
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Post by rincon on Sat Jul 11, 2020 2:45 pm

@Casciavit wrote:It really is amazing how well Atalanta are doing considering the team at hand. Gasperini is the coach getting the most out of his team in the top 5 leagues IMO.

It's not close. Atalanta has 0 business as a club reaching the QF of the CL. And doing it in such an entertaining fashion as well, not the usual ultra defensive underdog. Every player is reaching 100% of their potential with Gasperini.

They might very well make second place in the league as well.
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Post by Arquitecto on Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:52 pm

Good points once again Jespers and while Ibra truly has turned out to be a leader for the team and the one we sorely needed at this time, his age really is the factor in which we cannot build a team around him. He does feel a little too entitled I admit but at the same time he is the sole man trying to hold the expectations to what we feel we are worth.

Surprisingly he does like Pioli a lot and Pioli, who should be remembered as a decent coach for us, will of course depart end of season.

But it is no coincidence Gazidis rubs anyone of stature the wrong way from Boban to Maldini to Zlatan himself and once again does not have the results to prove it given he plain sucked at Arsenal.


It is I admit ridiculous for me to criticise what has me end up sound like the unrealistic Milanisti who expect the best no matter what the situation but this combo I repeat, of Gazidis and Rangnick only leads one way.


Zlatan's breakdown with Gazidis does spell our ambitions for the next years and the former is wisened and experienced enough to know what the latter is hinting at.


Only one way to find out, of course.
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Post by S on Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:09 pm

Lazio in free fall. Losing in injury time.

There goes their title challenge
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Post by rincon on Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:16 pm

@Arq @Jesp

It's not about expecting the best no matter what for me, or about not liking Rangnick, surely he is good at this, it's about giving the keys to a club like Milan just like that.

Tare/Inzaghi
Marotta/Conte
Paratici/Sarri
Etc.

Better to has a DS working with the board in the long term operation of the club, than to marry the position of coach and DS as one.

If I was to give to give the keys of the club like that, then I would give them to Allegri, Conte, or Gasperini first. As they know exactly what it takes to build a winning team in Serie A from the inside. A pair of Gazidis + Rangnick does scream to me "Milan is back".
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Post by rincon on Sat Jul 11, 2020 6:48 pm

@S wrote:Lazio in free fall. Losing in injury time.

There goes their title challenge

1-2 Sassuolo title wrapped up cheers
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Post by Warrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:10 pm

I bet every man watching this match now hold his balls for a second Laughing

Ugly to watch so far, the few good counter-attacks were screwed by Berna
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:27 pm

Not sure if this is Juve-Ajax 2019 or Juve-Atalanta
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:30 pm

the first one will win Scudetto
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Post by Luca on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:36 pm

Atalanta clearly a much better team. It’s obvious

Juventus without Ronaldo and Dybala wouldn’t be in the top four this season

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Post by Robespierre on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:42 pm

Football in this Covid - phase is a fraud sport  , it's basically football-random in last 30 minutes,who is more fit it wins . Atalanta were already good but now they are the best team in Europe . No one really run good as them
if they win it today, they should have some regrets for some matches lost in 1st half ...
Serie A could have own Leicester, and Atalanta are similar also for history / route to Foxes.
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Post by Warrior on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:48 pm

Covid or not it's unacceptable performance

Dybala had the virus for a month and he's the best Juve player on the field

Cuadrado and De Ligt only ones going for the tackle. In offense we are 3 vs 7 most of the time
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Post by RealGunner on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:50 pm

That juve midfield belongs in Serie B
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Post by Robespierre on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:51 pm

@Warrior wrote:Covid or not it's unacceptable performance

Dybala had the virus for a month and he's the best Juve player on the field

Cuadrado and De Ligt only ones going for the tackle. In offense we are 3 vs 7 most of the time


Well after you've conceded 4 goals to Milan in 30 minutes I can't be surprised for this performance against GOATalanta tbh
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