Re: Mbappe is the biggest fraud in football today.

by Myesyats Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:21 am

Doc wrote:I was wondering if ANYONE was gonna mention the league in which Mbappe plays in.

Thanks for the laugh brother Laughing

by farfan Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:42 am

Doc wrote:
futbol wrote:Are we just gonna ignore in what league MWalcottbe is playing in?

Nicolas Pepe last season in Ligue Uber Eats: 22 goals. So far at Arsenal halfway through the season? 2 goals.

Depay at United: 7 goals in 2 years. Now in Ligue Uber Eats 1: 9 goals in 12 games.

Even washed up Di Maria is hitting double digit numbers like an elite striker.

In a real league without being on the team that is 59382039 times as rich as the 2nd best team, he would score 15 goals a season and be seen as a Sterling level talent at best with pace and little else to his game.

Pipe down now with the nonsense comparisons. I don't see any headlines week in week out how he destroys opponents with skill other than scoring tap ins against part time baguette bakers.

Omg, thank you. I was wondering if ANYONE was gonna mention the league in which Mbappe plays in.

Sure you can use Ligue 1 as a mark against him. But the kid is still setting records in the CL ( historic debut season, the fastest player to reach 15 goals ) and the WC ( the greatest performance by a teenager since Pelé).

by Thimmy Tue Dec 17, 2019 2:49 am

farfan wrote:
Thimmy wrote:Who exactly is arguing that teenage Ronaldo was better than teenage Mbappe? And what point is there to either side of that argument? Has Chad taken over this forum? Is our next course of action to bring a future soldier back in time, in order to prevent mankind’s impending doom at the hands of Isco?

Is this a serious question? Valkyrja for starters, and all the others who disagreed with Jibers.

It was a serious question. I didn’t notice that Valk was arguing in favor of Ronaldo. Personally, I think their circumstances are far too different to properly and accurately determine who was the better or more talented player at that age. I think the circumstances favor Mbappe, but that doesn’t necessarily determine anything. It will ultimately boil down to who is better based on subjective criteria. Then again, I don’t see the point in this debate, unless the ultimate goal of the argument is to project who will likely go on to have the more impressive career - which I’m sure some on here would claim they definitely know the answer to.

by sportsczy Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:05 am

Both went to elite clubs.

CR actually had a better chance to make an impact than Mbappe... Man U had a great team. But RVN carried almost all the goals. They brought in CR and, one year later, Wayne Rooney. SAF was a legendary manager and the environment was fantastic. The roles were clear.

Mbappe went to PSG with a lot hype after literally a great 7 months at Monaco... not even a full season. He was going in as a phenom just like CR did at Man U. But he was competing against Cavani, Neymar, Di Maria, Draxler and Lucas Moura. Locker room was a carnival and Emery was a shit manager. As widely reported in France, it's a miracle that a 18 year old kid managed to survive despite the chaos. He played a support role for PSG his first season and was criticized for not scoring more... despite playing as a winger. Emery got fired and Tuchel came in making in clear that this was Neymar's team. Treated Mbappe poorly, as is widely publicized. Yet he still managed to keep his head and take control via his performances. He forced himself on Tuchel as a scorer whereas Tuchel wanted Neymar and Cavani to be the scorers. That's where the clash with Tuchel occurred.

You tell me which one was easier.

by Bankz Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:22 am

jibers wrote:
Bankz wrote:What are people even arguing here? Mbappe at Ronaldo’s age basically smokes Ronaldo and then some. Yes, mbappe might not really be an eye candy or all that much of an exciting player to watch but performance wise? Man tears Ronaldo apart like an action movie scene ffs.... keyword here is ‘At the same age’.

That being said, peaking early equally means absolute zilch whatsoever in football and mbappe might still be at this level or maybe even regress for all we care. Let’s not act like he’s ever going to be as good as prime Ronaldo. Aguero, Rooney, Robinho, Adriano, Torres, and Owen were busy doing their age mates dirty as teenagers so that means nothing.. I feel everyone is milking this mbappe’s age thing for far too long.

What I think valk is saying is that If mbappe was 25, nobody will watch him like this and say ‘omg I want that playaaaaa bloody hell’ but you could definitely make that case for Ronaldo at a young age. Though I might still be wrong on what he really means but that’s what I understood.

My honest opinion of mbappe is that while he’s the best youngster in the world today, he’s really nothing too special outside of what he’s doing for ‘his age’ tbh. He feels too limited in his skillset and what he has, aren’t things that can be improved that much upon. Put mbappe in the body of a 26 year old and what he’s doing would be considered normal but put a 31 year old benzema’s performance this year in the body of a 20 year old and you’ll have people thinking he’s some generational talent tbh.

PS mbappe has absolutely nothing on Henry.. and I mean nothing whatsoever.

bankz ffs

Disagree on the bolded part.

How is his skillset limited?

Isn't a good header, doesn't have shot power, an almost below average technique, far below average dribbling, Below average passing, a safe player who has mastered a method (speed and positioning) and is using it to the maximum.

You can even see it in the nature of goals he scores, basically running into space and tapping in (speed and positioning).

As for the age stuff, like I said, you don't see anyone attempting to pay over 300M or even 200M for lewandowski, Suarez, benzema, aguero, salah, mane, Sterling, griezemann etc or people considering them as generational talents why? Cause What they're doing now is considered normal as should be (at best they get praised for it) even if they all are actually more talented than Mbappe imo, but if that was mbappe or a teenager doing those same things then the story would be eternally different, and people would call them the best thing since sliced bread hyping any little thing they do and end every statement with 'and his only xxx age' Laughing

Do you actually think Madrid wants to sign mbappe solely because of his on pitch abilities? Lol 70% of that is simply down to his age and 'potential' that goes with it, not necessarily because he's anywhere close to being that good tbh.

by sportsczy Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:32 am

by futbol_bill Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:24 am

Sports, mbappe playing a support role???

He was the clear starter in a powerful front three with Neymar and Cavani. The other two only got to play as part of midfield or subs. Personally I think Mbappe is great and hope we get him next season. But don’t try to rewrite history just to extend your hype.

by sportsczy Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:09 am

futbol_bill wrote:Sports, mbappe playing a support role???

He was the clear starter in a powerful front three with Neymar and Cavani. The other two only got to play as part of midfield or subs. Personally I think Mbappe is great and hope we get him next season. But don’t try to rewrite history just to extend your hype.

His first year at PSG, he was playing wide... very wide when everyone was healthy. Almost an out-and-out winger. They also played him on the right and put Neymar on the left in a 433.
Neymar was the only one allowed to roam while Mbappe was asked to stay wide right.... so he wasn't even on his strong foot when he cut inside. Only played inside when they rested Cavani or he was injured.

Hence his stats of 21 goals and 15 assists for that season.

People forget the challenging season (for him) he had prior to WC 2018. After the WC, the whole debate in France was why PSG was built around Neymar and not Mbappe, why Mbappe was playing so wide, etc.

In short, shut your pie hole when you don't know what you're talking about.

by titosantill Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:39 am

i don't think the league he plays in is such a huge deal; an 18 year old should not be hitting 20 plus goals in his first full season including scoring decently in europe, i don't know if there are many kids who are doing what mbappe did in his first full season playing out there, whether in the qatari league, north korean league, or israeli league. if the league was that terrible and disgusting, then every youngster playing in it should be doing what mbappe did.

and btw i noticed the comment on henry. henry was 25/26 when he became king henry. henry didn't jump out the gate and put everyone on notice. i'd say it was around 2002 that henry got it. the same things mbappe doesn't have now, henry didn't have at his age. but by 01 or 02, he started scoring freekicks (low key one of the best at setpieces in his era), cheeky nutmegs and passes, solo runs....henry really worked on his craft

he was always good but henry in say 98, 99, 00 was just aggressive force and hustle which included a failed career at juve. but the guy worked on and polished his game. at the same age, mbappe was better imo (doesn't mean he'll grow to be as good as henry or any of these guys, we'll have to wait and see)

by Arquitecto Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:41 am

Ligue 1 similar to BuLi (despite its noticeable decline) gets way too much under-appreciation here. Like the critique of certain players it is just a GL meme to pander it without actual observation direct its game on a direct sample size and its better than expected performances on the European stage.

Yes PSG dominate it but they would dominate most leagues given the way they are built and having the squad they have accumulated pound for pound and not just counting the depth and their biggest strong suit is their very impressive defence so the Ligue 1 argument against Mbappe needs a better one, and more towards where he fails.

He would perform nearly just as well in other leagues I would predict.

by Arquitecto Tue Dec 17, 2019 7:41 am

Ligue 1 similar to BuLi (despite its noticeable decline) gets way too much under-appreciation here. Like the critique of certain players it is just a GL meme to pander it without actual observation direct its game on a direct sample size and its better than expected performances on the European stage.

Yes PSG dominate it but they would dominate most leagues given the way they are built and having the squad they have accumulated pound for pound and not just counting the depth and their biggest strong suit is their very impressive defence so the Ligue 1 argument against Mbappe needs a better one, and more towards where he fails.

He would perform nearly just as well in other leagues I would predict.

by farfan Tue Dec 17, 2019 11:19 am

futbol wrote:

Depay at United: 7 goals in 2 years. Now in Ligue Uber Eats 1: 9 goals in 12 games.

Yeah, and also 5 goals in 5 games in the CL Laughing

Not to mention he was the Netherlands' best player in the euro qualifiers. is it so hard to believe he has improved?

by zigra Tue Dec 17, 2019 3:52 pm

Arquitecto wrote:Ligue 1 similar to BuLi (despite its noticeable decline) gets way too much under-appreciation here. Like the critique of certain players it is just a GL meme to pander it without actual observation direct its game on a direct sample size and its better than expected performances on the European stage.

Yes PSG dominate it but they would dominate most leagues given the way they are built and having the squad they have accumulated pound for pound and not just counting the depth and their biggest strong suit is their very impressive defence so the Ligue 1 argument against Mbappe needs a better one, and more towards where he fails.

He would perform nearly just as well in other leagues I would predict.

Ligue 1 is clearly a level below the italian and german league and both these leagues are clearly a level below the english and spanish league. That's not some "subjective feeling" or a meme but based on actual facts - results on the pitch.

by farfan Tue Dec 17, 2019 4:03 pm

zigra wrote:
Arquitecto wrote:Ligue 1 similar to BuLi (despite its noticeable decline) gets way too much under-appreciation here. Like the critique of certain players it is just a GL meme to pander it without actual observation direct its game on a direct sample size and its better than expected performances on the European stage.

Yes PSG dominate it but they would dominate most leagues given the way they are built and having the squad they have accumulated pound for pound and not just counting the depth and their biggest strong suit is their very impressive defence so the Ligue 1 argument against Mbappe needs a better one, and more towards where he fails.

He would perform nearly just as well in other leagues I would predict.

Ligue 1 is clearly a level below the italian and german league and both these leagues are clearly a level below the english and spanish league. That's not some "subjective feeling" or a meme but based on actual facts - results on the pitch.

Results as in mid-table Lyon getting four points off Bundesliga-topping Leipzig? hmm

by zigra Tue Dec 17, 2019 6:07 pm

Yeah or a trash Manchester United beating Paris hmm

I know you're not serious but in the end you check the UEFA coefficients and they are pretty clear: https://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/uefarankings/country/#/yr/2020

You could also check the club coefficients on the same page if you think some competitions are just above France because of one or two great clubs. Spoiler alert: they are not. Not even one of them.

by jibers Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:51 pm

Bankz wrote:
jibers wrote:
Bankz wrote:What are people even arguing here? Mbappe at Ronaldo’s age basically smokes Ronaldo and then some. Yes, mbappe might not really be an eye candy or all that much of an exciting player to watch but performance wise? Man tears Ronaldo apart like an action movie scene ffs.... keyword here is ‘At the same age’.

That being said, peaking early equally means absolute zilch whatsoever in football and mbappe might still be at this level or maybe even regress for all we care. Let’s not act like he’s ever going to be as good as prime Ronaldo. Aguero, Rooney, Robinho, Adriano, Torres, and Owen were busy doing their age mates dirty as teenagers so that means nothing.. I feel everyone is milking this mbappe’s age thing for far too long.

What I think valk is saying is that If mbappe was 25, nobody will watch him like this and say ‘omg I want that playaaaaa bloody hell’ but you could definitely make that case for Ronaldo at a young age. Though I might still be wrong on what he really means but that’s what I understood.

My honest opinion of mbappe is that while he’s the best youngster in the world today, he’s really nothing too special outside of what he’s doing for ‘his age’ tbh. He feels too limited in his skillset and what he has, aren’t things that can be improved that much upon. Put mbappe in the body of a 26 year old and what he’s doing would be considered normal but put a 31 year old benzema’s performance this year in the body of a 20 year old and you’ll have people thinking he’s some generational talent tbh.

PS mbappe has absolutely nothing on Henry.. and I mean nothing whatsoever.

bankz ffs

Disagree on the bolded part.

How is his skillset limited?

Isn't a good header, doesn't have shot power, an almost below average technique, far below average dribbling, Below average passing, a safe player who has mastered a method (speed and positioning) and is using it to the maximum.

You can even see it in the nature of goals he scores, basically running into space and tapping in (speed and positioning).

As for the age stuff, like I said, you don't see anyone attempting to pay over 300M or even 200M for lewandowski, Suarez, benzema, aguero, salah, mane, Sterling, griezemann etc or people considering them as generational talents why? Cause What they're doing now is considered normal as should be (at best they get praised for it) even if they all are actually more talented than Mbappe imo, but if that was mbappe or a teenager doing those same things then the story would be eternally different, and people would call them the best thing since sliced bread hyping any little thing they do and end every statement with 'and his only xxx age'

Do you actually think Madrid wants to sign mbappe solely because of his on pitch abilities? Lol 70% of that is simply down to his age and 'potential' that goes with it, not necessarily because he's anywhere close to being that good tbh.

So you think a players heading technique and timing can't be improved? You think his off the ball movement can't improve further? You think he can't improve on using his weak foot? His free kick taking can't improve? Let's just agree to disagree.

If you think his technique, dribbling and passing are "below average" I don't know what to say. Your idea of an average footballer is something else to mine.

Mbappe's dribbling style is actually very close to CRs when he was in his pomp. CR relied heavily on his pace to beat his man which is why when he lost his pace he couldn't dribble for shit and became a box player. Watch him dribble at United, it was mostly when he was running at defenders into space. CRs ball handling and dexterity are better though. In tight areas his dribbling wasn't anything spectacular. This is why when he faced defenders as fast as him such as Clichy, Ashley Cole he struggled. In teams that were compact he was nigh on ineffective for the most part in terms of his on the ball ability. And by spectacular I am comparing him to the Messi's, Xavi's, Iniestas and Hazards of this world.

Mbappe is streets ahead of all the players you mentioned at the same age so how did their trajectory get to where it is now? Sterling? You've got to be kidding me? You think Sterling is more talented than Mbappe? Mbappe is superior to Sterling now! Come on Bankz...

by futbol_bill Wed Dec 18, 2019 5:26 pm

sportsczy wrote:
futbol_bill wrote:Sports, mbappe playing a support role???

He was the clear starter in a powerful front three with Neymar and Cavani. The other two only got to play as part of midfield or subs. Personally I think Mbappe is great and hope we get him next season. But don’t try to rewrite history just to extend your hype.

His first year at PSG, he was playing wide... very wide when everyone was healthy. Almost an out-and-out winger. They also played him on the right and put Neymar on the left in a 433.
Neymar was the only one allowed to roam while Mbappe was asked to stay wide right.... so he wasn't even on his strong foot when he cut inside. Only played inside when they rested Cavani or he was injured.

Hence his stats of 21 goals and 15 assists for that season.

People forget the challenging season (for him) he had prior to WC 2018. After the WC, the whole debate in France was why PSG was built around Neymar and not Mbappe, why Mbappe was playing so wide, etc.

In short, shut your pie hole when you don't know what you're talking about.

It’s more a question of what do you mean by support role. You said he was competing with Di Maria, Draxler, Moura (In addition to Cavani and Neymar). None of those three put him out of starting! He was clearly the #2 on the club. Is that what you are calling a support role? Clearly an exaggeration (as usual)

by sportsczy Thu Dec 19, 2019 4:59 am

by sportsczy Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:31 am

titosantill wrote:i don't think the league he plays in is such a huge deal; an 18 year old should not be hitting 20 plus goals in his first full season including scoring decently in europe, i don't know if there are many kids who are doing what mbappe did in his first full season playing out there, whether in the qatari league, north korean league, or israeli league. if the league was that terrible and disgusting, then every youngster playing in it should be doing what mbappe did.

and btw i noticed the comment on henry. henry was 25/26 when he became king henry. henry didn't jump out the gate and put everyone on notice. i'd say it was around 2002 that henry got it. the same things mbappe doesn't have now, henry didn't have at his age. but by 01 or 02, he started scoring freekicks (low key one of the best at setpieces in his era), cheeky nutmegs and passes, solo runs....henry really worked on his craft

he was always good but henry in say 98, 99, 00 was just aggressive force and hustle which included a failed career at juve. but the guy worked on and polished his game. at the same age, mbappe was better imo (doesn't mean he'll grow to be as good as henry or any of these guys, we'll have to wait and see)

He actually had 33 league goals in 29 league games last season... Ibra only topped that once in his time at PSG and Cavani only once as well. He did that with Neymar and Cavani injured most of the season and being "the man".... Ibra spent 4 full seasons at PSG and Cavani is in his 7th full season, to put things in perspective.

by sportsczy Sun Dec 22, 2019 9:31 pm

calendar year 2019:

41 goals and 17 assists in 40 games

CL: 7 goals and 4 assists in 7 games

Lewandowski had the most goals with 54, Messi had 50... and then Mbappe with 41. Interestingly, Sterling had 41 as well (so far). Ronaldo had 39 (not sure if he has more games in 2019).

by Hapless_Hans Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:41 pm

Amazing youngster

hope he leaves PSG soon for a proper club

by BarcaLearning Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:44 am

Pretty sure he prefers Madrid and that Flo will surely do everything to get him right? Other than that would be amazing if he manage to snatch him. Other than that I can only see Man C with the potential to fight for him.

by Perucho21 Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:38 am

Thibu
Carvajal Militao Varane Mendy
Valverde Casemiro Pogba
Odegaard
Mbappe Hazard

Uffffffff

by Myesyats Mon Dec 23, 2019 12:28 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Pretty sure he prefers Madrid and that Flo will surely do everything to get him right? Other than that would be amazing if he manage to snatch him. Other than that I can only see Man C with the potential to fight for him.

Madrid can have this fraud. He's a con man. Also 1 goal in PL equals 1,5 goals in the Ligue Uber Eats so Sterling is much better.

by futbol_bill Mon Dec 23, 2019 6:15 pm

Perucho21 wrote:Thibu
Carvajal Militao Varane Mendy
Valverde Casemiro Pogba
Odegaard
Mbappe Hazard

Uffffffff

How about

Thibu
Carvajal Militao Varane Mendy
Valverde Casemiro
Odegaard
Mbappe Benz Hazard

We don’t need “just see me in WC”, plus Flo apparently has told Zidane he won’t pay more than 50M for him, not worth it he says!

Plus Benz and Ramos are good for another year. We do need backups for Casemiro and Valverde though.

by sportsczy Tue Dec 24, 2019 7:22 pm

Actually, Madrid have told Man U they won't pay more than 90 mil for Pogba and Man U want 130 mil lol. But that will come down soon. His contract runs out in 2022. So either they sell for a good price this summer or the price drops DRASTICALLY in 2021. He'll only be 29 then too. He's 26 right now and will turn 27 in March.

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