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Post by Thimmy on Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:48 pm

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Icardi managed to distinguish himself as one of the top goalscorers in Europe, despite playing for a relatively underwhelming Inter side. Prior to the Wanda drama, he was sought after by the majority of Europe's top clubs, including us and Barcelona. He's an established, world class finisher who's bailed out Inter on so many occasions that, I'd claim he's already punched well above their weight-class in making them a competitive side. Have you seen how they play as a team? I know you don't like him, but come on, man Razz What I admire most about him is that he's such an alpha player. He wants responsibility, and he wants to be the main man. We scarcely have players like that in our team. The first guy who comes to mind is friggin' Ramos.


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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:04 pm

you know what i think of poachers, useless
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Post by Mamad on Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:19 pm

I don't think Icardi is better than Higuain ( imo ).
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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:26 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:you know what i think of poachers, useless

So are Bale and Benzema but here they are. Being useless. In any case, Icardi and Wanda are 2 folks I rather not be at the club at this present time.
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:33 pm

@Doc wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:you know what i think of poachers, useless

So are Bale and Benzema but here they are. Being useless. In any case, Icardi and Wanda are 2 folks I rather not be at the club at this present time.


Agreed.

I definitely think Icardi is a better player than Higuaín, though. Hell, Higuaín played for substantially better teams and yet, didn't exactly make a point for him being the better player. Icardi has more pace, better reactions and is a more clinical finisher, so I don't know what Higuaín is better at. Physical strength?
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Post by Mamad on Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:57 pm

They are the same in many aspects of the game. but Higuain has better movement.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:21 pm

@Doc wrote:
@Mr Nick09 wrote:you know what i think of poachers, useless

So are Bale and Benzema but here they are. Being useless. In any case, Icardi and Wanda are 2 folks I rather not be at the club at this present time.


True that, if we avoided "useless" players this season we could barely fill a starting XI
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:28 pm

these useless players a year ago won the champions league. Giving them one more season under new management to draw something else out of them was not a bad plan. the coach we signed just screwed up and the season went poorly
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:31 pm

@Mamad wrote:They are the same in many aspects of the game. but Higuain has better movement.


I'm not so sure that is true. I'd have to see Icardi not play as an isolated, lone striker in order to get a better grasp of how he can affect a game with his movement. As it stands, his job is to keep possession of the ball and take care of the finishing in the final third. We've only seen on counters that he has great pace going forward, and it's rare that he takes on defenders with dribbling, as that would simply work against Inter's tactical setup. Perisic is pretty much the only guy who does it, and they're fked on counters every time he loses possession from it.

Icardi possesses more natural pace than Higuaín, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him prove his usefulness in that regard. I look forward to, hopefully, seeing him play in a less restricted role at his next club. Either way, we're not likely to get him. I, for one, would have appreciated his aggressiveness in the final third of the pitch. I think that's exactly what we're lacking, poacher or not. Look at 1:25 into the video. He may not display it often, but it's not as if he has the movement of a giraffe, and with his rare quality of finishing, he definitely makes himself useful without relying on it. To say that he's a poacher, based on how he plays, is fair. However, I think he's far more than "just a poacher" based on the quality he possesses. I'll leave this topic to rest for now. Let's see how he does at Juve, or wherever he goes.

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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:15 pm

@Mr Nick09 wrote:these useless players a year ago won the champions league. Giving them one more season under new management to draw something else out of them was not a bad plan. the coach we signed just screwed up and the season went poorly

Give them one more season? Benzema would be here till he retires but Bale needs to go. Not only he isn't wanted by the fans, he clearly doesn't wanna be here. No sense in keeping a player whose mind is elsewhere.

Also, a year ago we had Ronaldo covering up their uselessness. Now that we do not have Ronaldo, it's plain as day Benzema really needs help when it comes to goal scoring and Bale is getting outshone by Vini and Lucas.

It's like we really underestimate how great Ronaldo turned out. If it weren't for that 2nd half revival, we have no CL.

Also, "useless" is very vitriolic so take that into consideration lol


Last edited by Doc on Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:16 pm

Also, Icardi is better than Higgy and I love me some Higuain.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:36 pm

found this very interesting map of players scoring goals vs creating chances since 2014, definitely worth a look


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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:07 am

According to that, both Isco and Vasquez have a higher expected assist ratio (basically creates more) than Benzema who, in turn, is scoring a good amount but not creating much. In fact, both the much maligned (rightfully) Bale and also maligned (fucking wrongfully) Suarez create and score more.

@Adit was right all along, sort of lol.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:18 am

keep in mind those are data from 2014 and on, when some of those guys were in their primes.

Benzema is definitely not a great creator, that's clear, but there is no stat to translate how excellent he is associating with other players.

the top right quadrant is the super elite zone, Bale is in there lol

and James is a prime creator as well.
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Post by Doc on Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:32 am

If you look at Bale's Madrid career statistically, he has elite numbers. If you watched the matches Bale has played (which we all did here), it does tell a more, how to put it, complex tale of his time at the club.

Anyway, like with all stats, just tells one part of the story as football is not just about crunching numbers.
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Post by farfan on Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:33 am

Was Benzema ever hailed as a great final pass provider? most of the praise that he gets is for opening up space and linking up with other players in deep positions.
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Post by Valkyrja on Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:48 am

We need more players of Arbeloa's and Reguilon's ilk, those who don't take shit from Barca. We severely lack that kind of mentality in this game, this shit has been happening for years, our guys are scared stiff when we meet those bastards.
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Post by titosantill on Mon Mar 04, 2019 4:34 pm

i get what you mean valk, especially in terms of mentality, but arbeloa may not be the best example. yeah he talked a good game but he was crap on the pitch for the most part. i'd rather doers than talkers. i get your overall point though, but would rather not have a clumsy footballer like him. didn't the guy predict we'd win a treble this year or something to that effect? regulion has been good so far, let's hope he keeps it up. consistency is what will define him
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Mar 08, 2019 2:22 am

I'm leaving this here for those who don't read Spanish media lol, I got you Madrid soap opera is in full effect. This has been widely reported so I consider this as true, but this feedback is one I got from one of the best Madrid journalist  Jose Ramon de la Morena on ONDA Cero https://www.ondacero.es/programas/transistor/audios-podcast/de-la-morena-florentino-quiere-que-regrese-zidane-y-algunos-directivos-prefieren-a-mourinho_201903075c819f0c0cf21ff290e9c409.html

- after the ajax game, Perez went down to the locker room and was shaking every player's hand.
-when he got to Ramos he asked if he had enjoyed his time off
-Ramos replied that he had played the most this season and then continued to say that if Perez wasn't happy he could pay him his contract and he would leave.
-It was a very short exchange but it translates the relationship between both which in private is very bad. De la Morena explains that Perez doesn't like the power that Ramos weilds around the club, even over the coach because he acts like he is the boss. And while both act civil in public it's well known in Madrid circles that they don't like each other. He goes on to talk about how Ramos was almost gone to unites but renewed etc...
- another point is that Perez is concerned with how the players who played less with Solari and who are needed now like Isco, Marcelo, Bale etc... Would react now
- the conversations are mainly between Perez and JAS. Perez wants Zidane to come back, certain directors are trying to convince Perez it should be Mourinho.

Take a listen if you understand Spanish it's good stuff

I will add from Marca: Ramos had a reunion (like it's said earlier, he acts like the chief) and is trying to motivate the players to finish the season well.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Fri Mar 08, 2019 4:31 am

What idiot directors think Mourinho would be a good hire? Should be fired immediately. Really, there are soooo many better managers at this point. This isn't 2011 anymore
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Post by Mamad on Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:27 pm

I think Ramos has gone over his head. he has had more than fair amount of mistakes. he is at fault for this awful season as much as anybody else.

but thinks because of the armband he can do whatever he wants. instead of blaming Perez, he should apologize to the fans for that yellow card against Ajax.

Pay me up and i'll go? so much love for the shirt lmao. we should not mistake his narcissism with love for the shirt.

And to make it worst it appears he has a list of managers he is against too. so the club should not sign them lmao.

I've never liked Perez. i think he does whatever he wants and that absolute power is not good. but still, in this case i'm with him.
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Post by Cyborg on Fri Mar 08, 2019 12:45 pm

@mamad I agree with you.

I didn't know he had so much power. But after the Conte comments I realized. I like a caption who has his attitude,  but his influence at  the  club is a  bit  much, that shouldn't be tolerated.

But there is no link between the players and the president I feel, so Ramos takes the role.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Mar 08, 2019 1:02 pm

This is also something De la Morena was commenting on: he mentioned that Ramos understands his role as captain as the guy who challenges the team leadership on behalf of the player and this was not the first incident. He does the same thing with the national team where he acts like the boss but it has not worked as well because players are from different teams and he rubbed people off the wrong way with his behavior. He goes on to talk about how after CR left, he has been expecting to become the face of the club both mediatically and financially via a huge deal...

His contract ends in 2020, at this point you can speculate that Perez will not offer him a new deal, which is something they have been talking about for the past two years. It is said Perez verbally promised to renew his deal but has not done so.

If you wanna renew the team and build a new one, you can argue that it's a necessary step, to actually allow him to leave and to bring in other players to start over
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Post by titosantill on Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:29 pm

every madrid captain has wielded enormous power at the club, such powers seem to be only curtailed by the president. and these captains have seen their predecessors and the clout their predecessors had. and part of that boils down to how we as a club handle things and diminished roles coaches have

when calderon appointed juande ramos, or prior to his appointment, there was a meeting between juande ramos, raul and the president. before zidane and lope where appointed flo is said to have had sit downs with the captain. imo that kind of luxury shouldn't be handed out to the skipper (unless in an exceptional case where your captain is a once in a lifetime type footballer). that ramos can say on tv who he doesn't want as coach is ludicrous. even if florentino did want to hire conte, if you're conte , you're asking yourself am i going to be the boss in that locker room or will the inmates run the asylum?

schuster once implied raul vetoed a move for a then young hungry david villa. we will have to start putting more trust in the coach, and in order to do that, hire the right person first and work with that person on what they want and what we can provide. and we don't need ramos' damn opinion on who we should or shouldn't hire
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Post by Doc on Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:51 pm

Not sure who it was, I'm thinking either Toshak or Juup once said Sanchis is the worst person he ever met and he was Captain supreme too. Hell, Sanchis' old man played for about ten years with the club too so you can imagine the ego on him. Madrid has a tendency of making the captain basically a high ranking board member which, I mean, it's fine until it isn't.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Fri Mar 08, 2019 7:56 pm

From all evidence we have most Spanish players who become long term captains in Madrid start weilds great considerable power and it does not end well usually
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