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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:52 pm

@Thimmy, we had a made squad in its prime where players like Bale, CR, Modric, casemiro, Kroos, Ramos, Varane, Marcelo, Caravajal were at the top of the game. They were literally top 3-5 in their positions and we had 0 need to upgrade. Benzema is a special case because he was protected. that's your starting XI, which was winning champions league. There was no room and no need to go spend millions on other players. Yet we signed James and look how that turned out, he was unhappy with playing time and left.

You guys have this unrealistic idea that we should have signed galacticos when those guys were in their primes, had created a fantastic bond on the pitch, and just knew how to play with one another. This is how you build a team. That squad was made and there was no glaring hole to fill. Keeping that squad together yielded 4 CLs in 5 years, never seen before.

RM dont have an unlimited well of money to sign 3-4 galacticos every summer. There is a willingness to sign the right players. We were ready to spend 180 millions on Mbappe. We were ready to make a deal with Chelsea last summer for Hazard but they did not want to sell. If Neymar becomes available, we will be ready to make a deal. That's the type of top end talents we are looking at. We have had 0 indication that Perez is unwilling to sign top players, this is a speculation born from people's frustration at not getting what they fantasize about. But in this market where players can easily be priced at 100 mil if they have 5 good games, you have to be careful who you sign. The strategy to sign young players is to see a kid like Vinicius come through. If he was playing for Borussia, we would have paid 100 mil next summer for him...

Saying that we have lost appeal as a club is unfunded and a tad ridiculous to me. We have always been unstable coaching wise, and the best example of our appeal is Hazard whoring himself out in england waiting that we sign him. he doesnt care who is coaching the club or what modric and marcelo are doing lol. Players are selfish enough not to care about those things.

At the end of the day, this discussion stemmed from Sports fapping about barca signing De Jong, and being linked with Rabiot and De ligt.

Why is it that i hear no praised about us being linked with militao, Hazard, Firpo, nerman, Eriksen? isn't that the kind of names you want associated with madrid? as i said, too much complaining over nothing. Be patient, squad building is not something you do overnight. Even next summer, we will continue to sign young players and elite talents provided the right opportunity. If there is no great deal to be made, we will simply not sign any schmuck for a crazy amount of money to make some here happy.

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Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Feb 23, 2019 7:11 pm

I wouldn't discount the positive transfer rumors that we see now. I think fans are upset because the need for reinvestment into the squad has been pretty obvious over the past 2-3 seasons. Had we made 1-2 more signings in that time frame one could argue we wouldn't be in the mess we are now seeing many of the 'older' players underperforming over long stretches of time.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 8:54 pm

Again, I will disagree with you. Signing papers is not an exact science because I can clearly point to elite talent the club has signed who simply failed to live up to the lofty ideals we had for them: Kovacic, Theo, Vallejo, Ceballos, James, Isco, Morata, Llorente, etc... All top talents who did not succeed the way we were hoping for.

Also, when it comes to squad building, there is no universe where when you have players like Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, etc... Who have all delivered at the highest level, you kick them out for underperforming lol. This is simply not realistic.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:22 pm

When you have failed prospects you go back into the market and try again. Of course not everyone will work out, otherwise scouting would be an exact science- it's not.

But if you don't take a risk on a new player you run into the inevitability that the current crop of players will get old, stale, run out of motivation etc. Phasing in new players while phasing out old/unmotivated/underperforming players is a part of the game. It's not "kicking them out" as you say. I am just advocating for the club the freshen up the squad with 1-2 signings who can slowly take over for players.

I mean what are you expecting to happen? Modric, Benz, Bale, and Marcelo play 90 minutes of every game of the season until they are 37 when we are finally allowed to replace them?
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Post by Thimmy on Sat Feb 23, 2019 10:37 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:When you have failed prospects you go back into the market and try again. Of course not everyone will work out, otherwise scouting would be an exact science- it's not.

But if you don't take a risk on a new player you run into the inevitability that the current crop of players will get old, stale, run out of motivation etc. Phasing in new players while phasing out old/unmotivated/underperforming players is a part of the game. It's not "kicking them out" as you say. I am just advocating for the club the freshen up the squad with 1-2 signings who can slowly take over for players.

I mean what are you expecting to happen? Modric, Benz, Bale, and Marcelo play 90 minutes of every game of the season until they are 37 when we are finally allowed to replace them?


Amen!

Also, I want to add that among Kovacic, Theo, Vallejo, Ceballos, James, Isco, Morata, Llorente, most of them are still useful assets to the team, and they will continue to be just that, as long as they don't demand to become starters without having proven themselves worthy of it. We need those players, too, and they're young enough that they may develop into even better players, still. We've not suffered any substantial economic loss from the signings that were shipped out, like Morata and James. In fact, we cashed in on Morata when his stocks were at it's peak, and James still has a high market value. Morata's popularity may not amount to much these days, but his efforts were absolutely crucial to our double winning season, as well. We did some good business.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:51 pm

After how much time do you give up on a player? 6 month? 1 year? 2 years? this is not an exact science. Just as we dont have an infinite well of money to continuously flip players after one season because they did not work out.

And by all means, it seems to me that we are already doing a pretty good job turning over players in the squad. We are already doing that, i can take an example with the fullback position where we keep trying. within a few years we went through Danilo, Achraf and Odri. on the other side, Theo, Reguillon and now there are talks of signing a new one.

In midfield our 3 starters have been Casemiro, Kroos, Modric. Behind them, we tried Llorente, Ceballos, Isco, Kovacic, James... this again seems to me like a very good turnover.

The attack is where it's been more difficult, but even then behind CR, Benz, and Bale, we had Isco, James, Morata, Vasquez, now Vinicius.

This is a very healthy crop of young talent we tried to promote behind the starters. What is happening now if that as the starters are getting older, and the younger players behind them are not closing the gap, you are forced to go to the market to potentially sign a Eriksen or Hazard, and whoever top player would be available, without breaking the bank.

this is a fluid process that has been happening over 3-4 years because you also have to give a real chance to your young players. It takes time to become elite. THis is the process you guys seem to be ignoring. In my opinion, the goal is to make incremental signings that will add or come in as direct replacement to our starters. It was not possible to do that before because of their previous form and Zidane unwillingness to change his squad. Not to mention, it's not that clear and obvious to find midfielders or players who are 1) available for transfer 2) better than our players regardless of their form, 3) available for fair transfer value and not the ungodly prices we see clubs exchange for average lads.

those last 3 points are something you guys happily ignore, as if there are world class players just running the streets and we are dumb not to pick them up
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Post by sportsczy on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:31 pm

I'll add that elite clubs don't sign players with the expectation that they will become starters...  they want competition AND have a ready made replacement in the inevitable scenario where a player gets old, injured or loses form.  

PSG didn't get Draxler or keep Di Maria because they would start.  But now that Rabiot went missing, Neymar is hurt, Cavani is hurt, etc, they're getting their chance.  If nobody got hurt, they likely would have gotten sold and someone else bought for the same reason.

Barca... same thing.  Malcom, Coutinho and Dembele are literally playing for 1 available position.  Lenglet was backing up Umtiti and Pique.  Vidal, Alena and Arthur are also playing for 1 spot.

You get younger (past puberty) and hungry pretenders to regular spots so that maybe some of them do become one...  that's how top clubs never fall off.

But Real Madrid is playing the transfer market like a club who is hurting for money or lack ambition or lack vision or a combo of the above.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Feb 24, 2019 7:43 pm

1) why are you comparing us to an inferior club like PSG? we will learn nothing from this type of comparison lol.

2) Barca have less of an idea about squad building than we do, spending 300 millions on Coutinho and Dembele. these are the signings you want? rofl
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Post by Thimmy on Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:40 pm




We were heavily linked to him, doesn't seem to be happening now. Which other forward alternatives seem realistic to you guys?
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Post by Doc on Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:48 pm

Flo done say Perez is the best striker in the world or some shit like that so we'll be getting probably no one. But you know what we could get: a proper manager.
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Post by Mamad on Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:00 pm

Any chance Tottenham sales Kane? he is the striker we need. watched him to day against Arsenal he is good on the ball too.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:25 am

@Mamad wrote:Any chance Tottenham sales Kane? he is the striker we need. watched him to day against Arsenal he is good on the ball too.


They would sell, but it would need to be a figure in the sum of financing their stadium- so probably around 500m.

So, basically, no. Tottenham locked down almost all of their key assets on longterm deals before the stadium, so the only ones we have a chance of getting are Toby and Eriksen
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Post by Mamad on Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:48 am

Eriksen is not good. from what i have seen.

I think something around 150M-170M will be enough to buy Kane.
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Post by titosantill on Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:05 am

what we need first, before signing players is a change of mentality and strategy. this thing of locker room generals has to be addressed, as i said in another post, its cool to have locker room generals when they are producing, when we can't even give a good account of ourselves against our rivals, we need to make a shift from that position.

two and more importantly, and i said this before and everyone disagreed, flo and the board should handle the major marketing and economic stuff. they should handle signings but there must be consultation with coach and/or sporting director on what path the club should take from a sporting standpoint

which means, hiring a solid coach, that you can at least trust, and giving that coach the necessary support. NOT "hey we don't want to give the coach any support cos we might fire him if he doesn't get along with ramos, or we might fire him if he loses 1 or 2 games". this idea of caretaker coaches cannot be our long term policy. and in hiring a coach don't just hire someone who has no backbone or no idea on who can help the team, but just wants to rely on flo to make those choices

when we address that, we can sign proper players, and that can all be done in one summer. oh and finally we are our own worst enemy, not barcelona. we know our issues we cannot keep sugar coating stuff based on wins against trash sides like celta vigo leganes valladolid et al, i would appreciate not to see another "insert madrid player name here is back" or "madrid is back" post by marca until the end of the season

i said at the start of the year, this is another charge it to the game season, and that's exactly what it is, we'll do well to quit lying to ourselves and just understand we are steadying the ship till the season ends
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Post by Mamad on Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:41 pm

Perez should start negotiating for a winger, an striker and a defender asap. we need a midfielder too. he had to see the outcome of this season and here it is. time to spend.

Players behind our recent success are all finished.
Ronaldo is gone, Modric is old, Kroos is playing bad, Marcelo's finished, Isco is benched, Ramos is well.... he is Ramos, but older. others are being 50% of what they used to be too. we need a shake up.
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Post by vanDEEZ on Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:56 pm

No chance would Spurs sell Kane for less than 200m. They lose Kane and there goes their top 4 ambitions. Levy is too smart to let him go for less.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:32 pm

lol, you can sign Kane if you want, he is not gonna change the fate of this club. spending 200 millions for him would be fcking retarded
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:10 pm

@vanDEEZ wrote:No chance would Spurs sell Kane for less than 200m. They lose Kane and there goes their top 4 ambitions. Levy is too smart to let him go for less.

We have our backs against the wall now. Madrid waited so long until it was too late. All the targets are now locked down with contracts.

The only way we can get an elite striker is to do as the other elite clubs do, which is to spend big and make the player ask for the transfer. But unfortunately Madrid doesn't do that anymore. We only look for players in the last year of their contracts to get them on the cheap. We're no longer being ran as an elite club.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:48 pm

@The Demon of Carthage wrote:
@vanDEEZ wrote:No chance would Spurs sell Kane for less than 200m. They lose Kane and there goes their top 4 ambitions. Levy is too smart to let him go for less.

We have our backs against the wall now. Madrid waited so long until it was too late. All the targets are now locked down with contracts.

The only way we can get an elite striker is to do as the other elite clubs do, which is to spend big and make the player ask for the transfer. But unfortunately Madrid doesn't do that anymore. We only look for players in the last year of their contracts to get them on the cheap.  We're no longer being ran as an elite club.
nice to continue the tradition of making statements which have no foundation whatsoever. we waited to sign which earth shattering striker in the past 5 years? lol, we have attempted to sign Lewandowski multiple times and Bayern kept blocking it.

Also, there has hardly been a n1 CF moving clubs in his prime in the past 5 years.

The CF market is dead right now, you actually have to bet on signing a young player hoping he turns legit. Spending 200 millions on Kane is not happening lol

anytime you guys ask for the club to make big signings, please name the players you want now, we will see how ridiculous/unrealisic some of you targets are
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:44 pm

What do you want me to say, seriously? We've mentioned countless names but you either turn a blind eye to them or you pretend that they are not good enough even though the players you have right now are dog shit and you're in no position to be picky.

Kane is perhaps unattainable right now but Madrid might've gotten him in 2016 when his contract was about to expire and Spurs were negotiating his renewal. But just like right now, Madrid chose to ignore it.

Mbappé was also reachable, but Madrid refused to meet his wage demands and Florentino thought that an 18-year old can't be a starter for Madrid. Then Ronaldo dumped his ass and guess what? He ended up playing another 18-year old there anyway.

I don't want Icardi anymore given his off-field shenanigans, but I remember mentioning him a few months ago and you claimed he wasn't good enough for you - such a bold statement coming from a guy who's club's main CF is Benzema.

The thing with you is that you blindly support the club no matter what. You can't even acknowledge the simple fact that they screwed up badly in the transfer market and that they could've planned the transition better by not going inactive for a very long time. You've totally embraced their transfer policy and you seem to have no problem going after elite players only when they are in the last year of their contract. You also think that spending more than 100m is ridiculous.

You might want to reevaluate your stance because the market is not going down, and if you truly think you can build an elite squad by going after kids and players in the final year of their contract, you're sadly mistaken. You'll continue to get your ass shredded every team you meet an elite club.

You have to spend, there's no other way around it. And you can keep telling yourself otherwise, but I'm sure you'll wake up one day when Barcelona has matched our league titles and you're finishing trophyless every year.



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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:58 pm

Nick's opinion is his own but the club has a(n) (well founded mind you) arrogance when it comes to signing players. We'll never, especially under Flo, sign the De Bruyne's, Salah's or Icardi's of world football. Flo wants a specific type of footballer, a world superstar type especially in the forward position.

But Nick is a punk, pos.
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Post by Doc on Sun Mar 03, 2019 4:59 pm

Also, my biggest hot take: Raul de Tomas is gonna have a fine career that would never translate to being a Madrid starter.
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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:00 pm

Using hindsight is truly a weak ass move.

in 2016, kane signed an extension to stay at Spurs, while already having a long term contract ending in 2020. It's not like his contract was about to expire, his agent just negotiated an extension and highr salary due to improved performance. So this is a false argument.

Mbappe CHOSE to go to PSG. do you suggest we should have kidnapped him? lol, we had a deal agreed with Monaco and Mbappe, but then he changed his mind. another false argument.

So Icardi is the level of striker you think will raise the level of the team? he could barely make Inter competitive all these years.

This is why i want you guys to start dropping some names, lol. So her in one post you lied about Kane, made a false argument about Mbappe, and mentioned Icardi like he is an elite CF Laughing this is some good stuff

I dont blindly support the club or agree to their policies. I try to understand why they behave the way they do and i decide if it makes sense or not for me. You guys just petulantly scream "galacticos" every summer without asking yourself if it makes sense of if it's sustainable.

We actually don't have to spend, this is where you are wrong lol. If that's how you think, you end up signing players like Coutinho for 150 mil lol.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage on Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:11 pm

Way to move the goal posts, very honest move on your part. Madrid could've gotten Kane in 2016 before the extension. His contract was about to expire then and it's easier to negotiate the signing of a player with a couple years left than 4 or 6 years. So no, you don't get to dismiss the argument just because you don't like it.

Mbappé didn't choose PSG at first. You're lying through your teeth. Madrid matched the 180m but chose not to pay him as much as PSG. That's why he chose PSG and not us. Then later Florentino came out to say that it's difficult for an 18-year old to start for Madrid. You don't get to dismiss the argument just because you don't like it. At least stay honest.

And yes Icardi would improve our squad immensely. He's no R9, but he's better than the one we have. You're being so picky and it's baffling especially when you have one of the worst striker in the market. Apparently you want to wait until your perfect CF emerges. Good luck with that.

We're not screaming galacticos every summer. Our squad is depleted and we're in dire need of elite talent to be injected. And you don't have to "try and understand why the club behaves this way" when it's clear as day that whatever they are doing is bringing more harm than good.

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Post by Mr Nick09 on Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:21 pm

LIE

In 2015 Kane signed a 5 year extension to stay at spurs until 2020. in 2016 he signed another extension until 2022. then in 2018, another until 2024. He was never about to run out of his contract. I suggest you stop this line of argument because you are wrong, and you might need to research a bit more...

Mbappe chosing to go to PSG because they were paying him more is still Mbappe CHOSING PSG over us. like i said, using hindsight is a tool for the weaks, paying 18 mil net and destroying the wage structure of your club for a player who just had 6 excellent months of football is highly stupid.

Icardi rofl like i said, he can't even lead Inter to be a competitive side, but we need to drop 100 mil for him. this is why i approve the club not spending like idiots.
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Post by Thimmy on Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:48 pm

Transfer Rumours | Tactics | Who to buy/sell etc - Page 13 245an3k

Icardi managed to distinguish himself as one of the top goalscorers in Europe, despite playing for a relatively underwhelming Inter side. Prior to the Wanda drama, he was sought after by the majority of Europe's top clubs, including us and Barcelona. He's an established, world class finisher who's bailed out Inter on so many occasions that, I'd claim he's already punched well above their weight-class in making them a competitive side. Have you seen how they play as a team? I know you don't like him, but come on, man Razz What I admire most about him is that he's such an alpha player. He wants responsibility, and he wants to be the main man. We scarcely have players like that in our team. The first guy who comes to mind is friggin' Ramos.

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