Rafa Benitez vs Julen Lopetegui

Meh I'm depressed so I'll start this off:

Which one do you prefer so far?

Rafa atleast has some career behind him and is showing at Newcastle he is still good. J Lo never has been good, at any point in his career. Also, I don't think Rafa went 4 games without scoring. That's horrible. SIX HOURS without scoring a goal.

Why am I doing this comparison? Cuz I still see people blaming our transfer policy when this team is good. We still had Bale on the field these 4 games, didn't we? Proven CR-lite scorer. CR ain't even scoring for Juve and they are still winning.

TLDR: Don't blame the transfers. Yes they are not the best we've done but this team is above good. World class to be precise.

wait its rafa vs lope? lol based on one of the threads you opened about 2 seasons ago i thought you would include zidane, considering his side was one of the worst you had ever seen

all seriousness though, this comparison can only be made if lope gets the boot. for all you know he can turn this around. and stop gassing the team, these guys aren't getting any younger. bale isn't a proven cr-lite scorer. he'll play well in our next few games then get injured

guest7 wrote:
TLDR: Don't blame the transfers. Yes they are not the best we've done but this team is above good. World class to be precise.

How am I supposed to take you seriously when you write stuff like this?

You're not a bad poster, but you tend to jump to conclusions too quickly without weighing in all the elements involved.

First of all, let me remind you of something that most posters tend to forget. Rafa had Ronaldo, the greatest goalscorer of this generation. Who does Lopetegui have? Like seriously? Useless Benzema and injury-prone Bale?

Moving on, who does Lopetegui have on the bench? A bunch of nobodies and unproven kids. Who did Rafa have? The likes of Kova, James and Isco on the bench.

Even the WC players Lopetegui is thought to have right now aren't as good as they used to be a few years back.

What am I trying to say here? Should Lopetegui be immune to all criticism? Definitely not. But he shouldn't be entirely to blame for our current sorry state because I don't think anybody else would've done better with this laughable attack.

Sometimes the solution is to fire the manager. Sometimes, it's a little bit more complicated than that and you have to look higher up for the one who's truly responsible.

Firing a manager midseason is stupid unless said manager is Mourinho AND you have Zidane to save you.

We're looking at Antonio Conte as an alternative. No thanks. Stick with Lope. I don't dislike what he's trying to do. He's taking over a very awkward squad that likely feels entitled, is mostly declining AND with a board that isn't replacing anyone.

I honestly feel bad for Lope. He's being dealt a raw hand.

sportsczy wrote:Firing a manager midseason is stupid unless said manager is Mourinho AND you have Zidane to save you.

We're looking at Antonio Conte as an alternative. No thanks. Stick with Lope. I don't dislike what he's trying to do. He's taking over a very awkward squad that likely feels entitled, is mostly declining AND with a board that isn't replacing anyone.

I honestly feel bad for Lope. He's being dealt a raw hand.

I think most of us were aware that whoever came after Zidane would be dealt a shitty hand. Not only in terms of the squad being weakened, but in terms of morale as well.

Rafa took a CL winning side and turned them into turd, Zidane took over the same squad, made a few adjustments and won 2 more CL titles.

The squad we have today is devoid of a player who can consistently score, and full of players who either look passed it, or don't care. It really doesn't matter if we have Lope, Rafa, Carlo, Zidane, Mourinho, Guardiola, or Klopp. If we don't have any goal scorers on the field, we aren't going to bag 3 goals per game like we used to with Ronaldo.

Perez was counting on 3 things: Bale to stay fit, Benz to have an uptick in goals now that he has less assisting Ronaldo responsibilities, and the defense to function better when our team is more cohesive and possessive under Lope.

The first 2 things have already gone to shit- not Lope's fault. The third I will put on Lope, but even then, I think it is early to change the mentality of a team that has had the same mentality for 5 years. That is not even to mention the host of players on the decline.

Firing Lope would be the wrong decision at this point. We are not going to significantly improve until we get better players, specifically a striker.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

guest7 wrote:
TLDR: Don't blame the transfers. Yes they are not the best we've done but this team is above good. World class to be precise.

How am I supposed to take you seriously when you write stuff like this?

You're not a bad poster, but you tend to jump to conclusions too quickly without weighing in all the elements involved.

First of all, let me remind you of something that most posters tend to forget. Rafa had Ronaldo, the greatest goalscorer of this generation. Who does Lopetegui have? Like seriously? Useless Benzema and injury-prone Bale?

Moving on, who does Lopetegui have on the bench? A bunch of nobodies and unproven kids. Who did Rafa have? The likes of Kova, James and Isco on the bench.

Even the WC players Lopetegui is thought to have right now aren't as good as they used to be a few years back.

What am I trying to say here? Should Lopetegui be immune to all criticism? Definitely not. But he shouldn't be entirely to blame for our current sorry state because I don't think anybody else would've done better with this laughable attack.

Sometimes the solution is to fire the manager. Sometimes, it's a little bit more complicated than that and you have to look higher up for the one who's truly responsible.

Not that I disagree with any of this, but I just gotta ask: where was this calm-headedness with Zidane? I was browsing the " Zidane's side is the worst side .... "  thread and saw that some of you wanted him gone as early as September of 2016. some posters were even hoping for a trophyless season so that Zidane would get fired. And the only issues then were a couple come-from-behind wins and some dull football.

It's just weird that some of the same people who were raking a club legend over the coals less than 6 months into his  ( very successful ) tenure are now asking others to give Lopetegui a break.

Only argument that people can say about this comparison is that Rafa had a better squad, which is true. Still doesn't change that Lope has failed in every club he has managed and all his teams has supposedly (from what I'm hearing) looked toothless and became a passing side with zero end product.

Nevermind that people were saying this team would be better and unleashed once CR leaves because he is such a liability for our passing game "Benzema has been playing second fiddle" "Bale is going to step up once CR goes away" But that's another story.

BTW IMO current Bale is even better than current CR.

Bale isn't reliable. He gets injured when we need him the most, and it's silly how often injury strikes, just as he finds form after having returned from the last injury. Can't take him into account when considering the long-term. If anyone said we would be "better" after CR left, I must have missed it. Unless, they were referring to our passing game. He was a liability to our passing game, but he made up for it with his goalscoring ability - which is why he was the catalyst of our attack. I don't think anyone predicted that we would be selling CR, and not find a replacement for him. The issues with our other forwards has been present for several years, already. Kovacic didn't get a replacement either, and it's not unreasonable to expect our aging players to get injured more frequently than in the past, yet all we signed was a replacement for Carvajal and a backup striker that has barely had a chance to play.. and an 18 year old Brazilian kid who plays for our B team.

Unless Lope loses the dressing room like Rafa did, the latter still technically has a chance to rectify things. But it ain't looking good for Lope. Feel it for him really, couldn't get to experience the WC as a manager then what started off pretty nicely fizzled out into being goalless in 4 matches with a squad that was in dire need of proper attacking reinforcements.

To be absolutely clear though... Lope loves the Spanish kids. He was happy with this squad. Zidane left because he couldn't shape the squad at all and wasn't going to after CR's departure... Lope was completely satisfied that Real Madrid were going to Spanish youth route. These are all his guys.

So Lope is not devoid of blame for the our lack of activity this past summer. Flo hired him because he would fit right into his current philosophy in fact.

Never seen a team rely so much on their midfielders as much as we do. We need to bin the whole frontline and start over. You know the first player that tried to take on players last night was 18 year old Vinicious. Imagine that, all that experience and none tries something different

Rafa lost the dressing room within the first week. He was a disaster

Hopefully after the break we should start getting players back, particularly Isco who we sorely lack. What we desperately need right now is a Barca loss and something to break this rotten run of form or the league will be out of reach yet again in October

sportsczy wrote:To be absolutely clear though...  Lope loves the Spanish kids.  He was happy with this squad.  Zidane left because he couldn't shape the squad at all and wasn't going to after CR's departure...  Lope was completely satisfied that Real Madrid were going to Spanish youth route.  These are all his guys.

So Lope is not devoid of blame for the our lack of activity this past summer.  Flo hired him because he would fit right into his current philosophy in fact.

Let’s examine that statement for a minute. For sure he liked Isco, Carvajal, Nacho, Ramos, Ceballos, Asensio, Odriozola and even Vinicius.

But he did say he wasn’t satisfied and ask for a midfieder and a defender with Vallejo and Llorente. He also asked for a LB. and of course he asked for a striker.

So we are really back to Flo and lack of signings, plus the too many kids argument.

This whole crisis IMO is back to the reliance on Benzema and Bale and also it is extremely obvious that we need Isco in the lineup.

Yeah sports, you can’t have it both ways, when ZZ was in charge you said he had no control over transfers and it was all 100% Perez.

At least Lope stated he needed a ST MF and CB. Only got Mariano, so I’d hardly say he had the summer transfer window he wanted. So now it’s Lope’s fault and Zidane is blameless? Sounds contradictory to me.

vanDEEZ wrote:Yeah sports, you can’t have it both ways, when ZZ was in charge you said he had no control over transfers and it was all 100% Perez.

At least Lope stated he needed a ST MF and CB. Only got Mariano, so I’d hardly say he had the summer transfer window he wanted. So now it’s Lope’s fault and Zidane is blameless? Sounds contradictory to me.

Lope is a Spain youth NT coach and the NT coach until this past WC.  It absolutely stands to reason that he's most comfortable with those he's already coached and who are comfortable with his system.

It also stands to reason that Flo hired him for exactly this reason since ZZ has hinted that he left due to lack of say in transfers (he didn't want to go through a rebuilding with players he couldn't choose). And, clearly, our policy has been for a few years now to sign young and unproven Spanish players mostly.

There's nothing "having it both ways" about it. It's pure logic.

The problem is that Madrid needs a minimum of results regardless of what the agenda is.  Lope needs to do better.

You're ignoring (as usual) his request for bench players in defense and midfield as well as that elusive striker. He did express his lack of confidence in Llorente and Vallejo as well his doubts re Fede and Reguilion. IMO he only went with these four because of the inactivity of Flo and Sanchez.

He clearly likes Ceballos, Asensio, Odriozola more than Zidane did, but these three are not the problem. The problems are clearly Benzema, Bale and the injuries we have. And I might add the inconsistent performances of some of the starters.

farfan wrote:Not that I disagree with any of this, but I just gotta ask: where was this calm-headedness with Zidane? I was browsing the " Zidane's side is the worst side .... "  thread and saw that some of you wanted him gone as early as September of 2016. some posters were even hoping for a trophyless season so that Zidane would get fired. And the only issues then were a couple come-from-behind wins and some dull football.

It's just weird that some of the same people who were raking a club legend over the coals less than 6 months into his  ( very successful ) tenure are now asking others to give Lopetegui a break.

It's simple. Just like Rafa, Zidane had a team strong enough to challenge for everything. So naturally, when things didn't go well, I blamed them. None of them had to coach an ageing squad with practically no reliable goalscorer and a very weak bench.

Rafa and Zidane had the necessary weapons to succeed. Lopetegui is being asked to win a nuclear war with sticks and stones. There's a huge difference.

i can't remember lope asking for anyone, i recall the media saying he wanted a striker and that was like a week to the end of the window, when there where links to rodrigo. that came close to the game against atleti in the super cup. i can't recall him asking for bench players nor a midfielder. even the striker request was something reportedly through the media. what i heard him say himself, during the press conference (not what the media said he said), was that he was happy with the squad. as a matter of fact, i recall hims saying if nobody joins and nobody leaves he will just be as happy....and i remember that, because i was bothered by that statement. i felt a lack of urgency

it can't all be on him obviously, but he cannot be exonerated either. he knew what he was going into, cristiano had already left iirc, and there was time to make demands or have a list of players, but he just said the "right" things and felt he could shape the team. there's still time, and he seems a likable character to the team. but the team has to start grinding out results. keep the flair approach on the back burner for now

oh and play the right players and have them play in their right positions (which is tough to do when you have a thin squad)

Porto fans are not calling him their worst coach ever for nothing FYI. I was hoping he learnt from his mistakes but it really seems he haven't.

Nevermind he was never our first choice to begin with. Poch was.

The Demon of Carthage wrote:

farfan wrote:Not that I disagree with any of this, but I just gotta ask: where was this calm-headedness with Zidane? I was browsing the " Zidane's side is the worst side .... "  thread and saw that some of you wanted him gone as early as September of 2016. some posters were even hoping for a trophyless season so that Zidane would get fired. And the only issues then were a couple come-from-behind wins and some dull football.

It's just weird that some of the same people who were raking a club legend over the coals less than 6 months into his  ( very successful ) tenure are now asking others to give Lopetegui a break.

It's simple. Just like Rafa, Zidane had a team strong enough to challenge for everything. So naturally, when things didn't go well, I blamed them. None of them had to coach an ageing squad with practically no reliable goalscorer and a very weak bench.

Rafa and Zidane had the necessary weapons to succeed. Lopetegui is being asked to win a nuclear war with sticks and stones. There's a huge difference.

Last year Zidane had this exact same team with a misfiring Ronaldo who didn't bother showing up until February. Zizou still bared the brunt of the blame and people were calling for his head by October.

Only on GL we are calm...ish. The rest of the Madrid fan forums are tripping balls and want him gone. Like, a whole lot.

farfan wrote:Last year Zidane had this exact same team with a misfiring Ronaldo who didn't bother showing up until February. Zizou still bared the brunt of the blame and people were calling for his head by October.

That 'misfiring' Ronaldo went beast mode later on and was crucial in Zidane winning the CL. There's also a reason people were calling for Zidane's head in October; he went out of the title race in that exact time and dropped points to minnows, including a home defeat to Betis.

You want to compare that to a guy who has Benzema and Bale as forwards? Is it really fair to blame Lopetegui for our scoreless run? Zidane was struggling to score with the greatest goalscorer of this generation and yet you want to hold Lopetegui to the same standards?

If we still had Ronaldo, misfiring or not, I would be ripping Lopetegui to shreds for not delivering good results. But as things stands, it would be unfair and hypocritical of me to blame the guy for our rough patch with the attack he has at his disposal right now, cause I'm pretty there's no manager under the sun capable of doing better with Benzema and Bale as their main men.

Give the guy the necessary tools to succeed, then blame him if he doesn't live up to expectations. But don't give him a slingshot in a drone fight and ask him to win for god's sake.

We've recently suffered injuries to Isco, Marcelo and Carvajal. Now, Benzema and Bale are out injured, as well.. This wouldn't be too bad, if we had more depth. At least, we have midfielders. Because Modric will definitely get injured, at some point.

farfan wrote:
Last year Zidane had this exact same team with a misfiring Ronaldo who didn't bother showing up until February. Zizou still bared the brunt of the blame and people were calling for his head by October.

Absolutely ludicrous giving a manager whose had 3 months with the team a bit more leniency than one who was in his 3rd season. Shocking hypocrisy of the highest order