Vinicius Jr signs for Madrid

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Spoiler:

I like Saka better than Vini, but one is proven in the UCL whereas the other plays houdini games he is needed the most and so far is not a big game presence.

he's been terrible the last two games, but he stepped up in every big occasion earlier in the season (United, City, and Liverpool at home).

UCL proven is a fair argument, but it doesn't lobside the debate as much as you lot seem to make it out. If Vinicius had 5 years of CL pedigree it would've been a different story, but that's not the case.

I haven't seen enough of Saka to compare at all really but I would echo what Casciavit alluded to a few pages back (if I understood his general point correctly) in that Vinicius could probably still do better if he didn't have to chaotically carry the attacking production of the team so much because of the less than ideal tactical set up/player options combo of the team. Maybe another coach would have refined the system so that it's more balanced and would have worked with Vinicius more to make him more crisp here and there because as talented as he is he still often does ugly, sloppy, clumsy stuff at moments that he should really be doing better. Even the way his body moves naturally speaks to me of a chaotic energy and personality that nonetheless he is making good use of. There's also a tactical analyst, Fabian Pinero, who as late as December was mentioning Vinicius could improve on his ability to work inside the mid sector of the final third. There's more refinement that can be done still.

I don't think it's crazy at all to compare the two as some have made it seem. I'd prefer vini currently for sure but saka is an immense player as well

One turns into absolute clutch in big and highstake games the other flops. Martinelli is better than Saka

World’s best

halamadrid2 wrote:One turns into absolute clutch in big and highstake games the other flops. Martinelli is better than Saka

Saka is dealing with fatigue. Arbeta and Southgate run him into the ground year after year, and they think it won't come back to bite him and them.

The players with the most minutes played this season

1. Bruno Fernandes (Man Utd) – 3,751
2. David de Gea (Man Utd) – 3,690
3. Vinicius Junior (Real Madrid) – 3,510
4. Axel Disasi (Monaco) – 3390
5. Alexander Nubel (Monaco) – 3390
6. Rui Patricio (Roma) – 3330
7. Alex Remiro (Real Sociedad) – 3330
8. Gianluigi Donnarumma (PSG) – 3330
9. Mohamed Salah (Liverpool) – 3318
10. Federico Valverde (Real Madrid) – 3314

Arsenal went out early in every cup, why should their players be fatigued?

Valkyrja wrote:World’s best

moaner

Vinicius is out of control, rare case of a player display so much arrogance and disrespect on pitch to his rival players and match officials without punishment.

— Rafael Hernández (@RafaelH117) May 6, 2023

Without punishment

He has more yellow card than that bull you have in midifled.

The referees treat him with contempt, why should he be nice to them.

He's a superstar.

halamadrid2 wrote:Without punishment

He has more yellow card than that bull you have in midifled.

The referees treat him with contempt, why should he be nice to them.

Lewa got a 3 match ban for doing a snorting gesture and not even in the ref's face yet Vini screams in ref's face every game and nothing ever happens

Should get more than just yellows for all that screaming and disrespecting the refs

I don't know why is that allowed, I hate it.

Only the captain should be allowed to even talk to the ref, players crying and constantly bitching about every single thing even if they know they are lying absolutely disgusts me

Myesyats wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:Without punishment

He has more yellow card than that bull you have in midifled.

The referees treat him with contempt, why should he be nice to them.

Lewa got a 3 match ban for doing a snorting gesture and not even in the ref's face yet Vini screams in ref's face every game and nothing ever happens

Should get more than just yellows for all that screaming and disrespecting the refs

Well if they start handing out reds to him they know they will wake up a sleeping beast in Perez. There is no way the club will continue to stay silent on all the shit he endures in a game when reffs start handing out red cards to him for complaining about it. They are probably keeping a dossier they can send (leak) to their friends at Marca to put pressure on the league.

The coach and the players are calming him down so that the complaining he does doesn't overshadow his performances. Suarez didn't get onto the Balon'dor podium for a reason and Vini wasn't named MOTM yesterday despite being the best. His complaining will just be harming him imo and unlike Barca who did nothing to control Neymar we are protecting him from himself while we let him experience growing pains without being shackled.

Vini was calm in the second half but we shouldn't have to play infront of the king for the referees to do their jobs. They need to do it week in week out and you'll see he'll stop his whingeing. Boy didn't even shake their hands at the start of the game, can't believe the papers missed it

halamadrid2 wrote:The players with the most minutes played this season

1. Bruno Fernandes (Man Utd) – 3,751
2. David de Gea (Man Utd) – 3,690
3. Vinicius Junior (Real Madrid) – 3,510
4. Axel Disasi (Monaco) – 3390
5. Alexander Nubel (Monaco) – 3390
6. Rui Patricio (Roma) – 3330
7. Alex Remiro (Real Sociedad) – 3330
8. Gianluigi Donnarumma (PSG) – 3330
9. Mohamed Salah (Liverpool) – 3318
10. Federico Valverde (Real Madrid) – 3314

Arsenal went out early in every cup, why should their players be fatigued?

fatigue isn't directly proportional to minutes played...

i've also noticed y'all only post in this thread when Vinicius has a good game, but i'm sure he has his fair share of duds. And only post on Saka when he has bad games.

El Gunner wrote:

halamadrid2 wrote:The players with the most minutes played this season

1. Bruno Fernandes (Man Utd) – 3,751
2. David de Gea (Man Utd) – 3,690
3. Vinicius Junior (Real Madrid) – 3,510
4. Axel Disasi (Monaco) – 3390
5. Alexander Nubel (Monaco) – 3390
6. Rui Patricio (Roma) – 3330
7. Alex Remiro (Real Sociedad) – 3330
8. Gianluigi Donnarumma (PSG) – 3330
9. Mohamed Salah (Liverpool) – 3318
10. Federico Valverde (Real Madrid) – 3314

Arsenal went out early in every cup, why should their players be fatigued?

fatigue isn't directly proportional to minutes played...

i've also noticed y'all only post in this thread when Vinicius has a good game, but i'm sure he has his fair share of duds. And only post on Saka when he has bad games.

How will they cope next season when all the games start piling up and Arsenal have to start playing every 3 days the whole season. I am obviously assuming Arsenal won't go out early in every competition like they did this season when their players start feeling fatigued with only the league to play for. On the contrary I thought they'd be as fresh as ever with only the league to play for.


No, this thread hasn't been bumped for a while and only gets bumped occasionally but Vini has been marvellous in 90%+ games this season. Even in the games he's been poor in he has always been the polarising figure, someone you see constantly on the ball trying. We've also fecked him with our tactics. The best thing that ever happened to him was Mendy being out for long and Camavinga starting to play LB. He started getting better support on the left flank instead of being isolated against 5 players on his own.

Vibe wrote:I don't know why is that allowed, I hate it.

Only the captain should be allowed to even talk to the ref, players crying and constantly bitching about every single thing even if they know they are lying absolutely disgusts me

This would make sense in a sport like basketball. a smaller court and players being relatively close to one another during play especially with the implementation of the defensive 3 second rule and players being within an arm length of their defensive assignment. People have been trying to advocate this for football, but lets think of the basics.

The winger gets tackled and he feels rightly or wrongly that the ref should call it. The captain is a defender or hell, a goalkeeper. What the hell will the captain speak to the ref about, the ref was even closer to the play than the captain was. Can someone enlighten me on what the skipper should say?

Besides in basketball, there are so many rules that it makes sense for a captain talking to the ref. Football is a very basic sport and is quite different. The offside rule might be the most difficult rule in the sport and it really isnt that difficult. There are times when the skipper should speak to the ref, but imo that should only occur when the ref initiates that meeting- situations where they'll call the 2 captains and basically tell them "hey talk to your group".

Lol the ref doesn’t have to explain himself. He makes the call based on rules and regardless of what the player thinks. If he made a decision based what on the player says, he wouldn’t be the ref but a consultant.

It doesn’t matter whether “the winger feels rightly or wrongly”

Myesyats wrote:Lol the ref doesn’t have to explain himself. He makes the call based on rules and regardless of what the player thinks. If he made a decision based what on the player says, he wouldn’t be the ref but a consultant.

It doesn’t matter whether “the winger feels rightly or wrongly”

Lol, that’s rich coming from you! It was Barca that started this ‘crowding the ref’ to protest almost every call! Just as few as 5 or 6 years ago, we seldom had, a group of players challenging the ref, which now has become a ritual in almost all liga games.

That and playacting is what the players in general have done that is largely responsible for the horrendous refereeing in la liga.

And both were initiated by Barca! You may or may not be guilty of paying referee, but for sure you are responsible for the deterioration of liga officiating!

titosantill wrote:

Vibe wrote:I don't know why is that allowed, I hate it.

Only the captain should be allowed to even talk to the ref, players crying and constantly bitching about every single thing even if they know they are lying absolutely disgusts me

This would make sense in a sport like basketball. a smaller court and players being relatively close to one another during play especially with the implementation of the defensive 3 second rule and players being within an arm length of their defensive assignment. People have been trying to advocate this for football, but lets think of the basics.

The winger gets tackled and he feels rightly or wrongly that the ref should call it. The captain is a defender or hell, a goalkeeper. What the hell will the captain speak to the ref about, the ref was even closer to the play than the captain was. Can someone enlighten me on what the skipper should say?

Besides in basketball, there are so many rules that it makes sense for a captain talking to the ref. Football is a very basic sport and is quite different. The offside rule might be the most difficult rule in the sport and it really isnt that difficult. There are times when the skipper should speak to the ref, but imo that should only occur when the ref initiates that meeting- situations where they'll call the 2 captains and basically tell them "hey talk to your group".

Sorry bro but how is that even an argument? I've been watching football for 20+ years and I've never seen a ref change his mind because a player bitched about it or had an opinion.

A player can voice his displeasure to the cap. We also have VAR now so the captain can challenge the decision like in tennis perhaps, after input from the players. The way everyone crowds the ref and scream in his face all the time is appaling to me and need to end.

It will probably not end cause the suits probably like the tension, good television.

You might want to watch Dani's red card against LaReal. The ref wasn't going to give him a card until their players started to crowd him and he changed his mind. I think a player mentioned (can't remember who) that players protest not to get that call but influence the next one. And I've seen that alot of the years.

futbol_bill wrote:

Myesyats wrote:Lol the ref doesn’t have to explain himself. He makes the call based on rules and regardless of what the player thinks. If he made a decision based what on the player says, he wouldn’t be the ref but a consultant.

It doesn’t matter whether “the winger feels rightly or wrongly”

Lol, that’s rich coming from you! It was Barca that started this ‘crowding the ref’ to protest almost every call! Just as few as 5 or 6 years ago, we seldom had, a group of players challenging the ref, which now has become a ritual in almost all liga games.

That and playacting is what the players in general have done that is largely responsible for the horrendous refereeing in la liga.

And both were initiated by Barca! You may or may not be guilty of paying referee, but for sure you are responsible for the deterioration of liga officiating!

How does that contribute to the conversation? I’ve never condoned that behavior from any player, be it from Barca or otherwise.

And also one thing is talking to the ref and asking for explanation and another thing is screaming and outright disrespect.

The RM fan base thinks Vini is being treated harshly when in reality the club is unable to control him at all and he gets away with a lot of appaling behavior due to being from RM

What appaling behaviour? Last time I checked banter was allowed on a football field. Intentionally trying to injure someone on the other hand is not allowed hence him getting aggrieved.

Vini has never had a problem in CL as a players will not be able to go 9 fouls without a card there that must frustrate the hell out of him.

Myesyats wrote:

futbol_bill wrote:

Myesyats wrote:Lol the ref doesn’t have to explain himself. He makes the call based on rules and regardless of what the player thinks. If he made a decision based what on the player says, he wouldn’t be the ref but a consultant.

It doesn’t matter whether “the winger feels rightly or wrongly”

Lol, that’s rich coming from you! It was Barca that started this ‘crowding the ref’ to protest almost every call! Just as few as 5 or 6 years ago, we seldom had, a group of players challenging the ref, which now has become a ritual in almost all liga games.

That and playacting is what the players in general have done that is largely responsible for the horrendous refereeing in la liga.

And both were initiated by Barca! You may or may not be guilty of paying referee, but for sure you are responsible for the deterioration of liga officiating!

How does that contribute to the conversation? I’ve never condoned that behavior from any player, be it from Barca or otherwise.

And also one thing is talking to the ref and asking for explanation and another thing is screaming and outright disrespect.

The RM fan base thinks Vini is being treated harshly when in reality the club is unable to control him at all and he gets away with a lot of appaling behavior due to being from RM

Like Hala said ‘what appalling behavior’. What you are seeing is a very frustrated kid after countless obvious fouls against him are ignored! He will eventually learn to be more restrained with his protest, but it is a part of maturing.

And as to how my post is part of the discussion is this whole era of player protesting is what’s at the bottom of this! The refs are far more influenced by the protests than what they are actually seeing! Also worth repeating, this is only happening in La Liga not in CL play!

World’s best.