Re: Red Dead Redemption 2

by danyjr Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:05 pm

I think 9/10 is what I would give it too. It looks gorgeous, the story is memorable, characters are impressive, there are tonnes of interesting things to do in the world and the soundtrack/sound design is on par with RDR as my GOAT. But to get a 10 I think not only you need to do everything right, but you also need to have something new to bring in a game unlike its predecessors, much like Zelda, MSG or Uncharted did.

I think my reasons for not regarding Witcher 3 so highly are personal preference however I still appreciate the many things that it did right. Perhaps I just didn't fall in love with the setting itself. You know, like a girl who you know is beautiful but just doesn't do it for you Razz

by Thimmy Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:30 pm

danyjr wrote:I think 9/10 is what I would give it too. It looks gorgeous, the story is memorable, characters are impressive, there are tonnes of interesting things to do in the world and the soundtrack/sound design is on par with RDR as my GOAT. But to get a 10 I think not only you need to do everything right, but you also need to have something new to bring in a game unlike its predecessors, much like Zelda, MSG or Uncharted did.

I think my reasons for not regarding Witcher 3 so highly are personal preference however I still appreciate the many things that it did right. Perhaps I just didn't fall in love with the setting itself. You know, like a girl who you know is beautiful but just doesn't do it for you

I completely understand what you mean Razz

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:14 pm

danyjr wrote:I think 9/10 is what I would give it too. It looks gorgeous, the story is memorable, characters are impressive, there are tonnes of interesting things to do in the world and the soundtrack/sound design is on par with RDR as my GOAT. But to get a 10 I think not only you need to do everything right, but you also need to have something new to bring in a game unlike its predecessors, much like Zelda, MSG or Uncharted did.

Don't really get this tbh, for one it changes more than any of those games did.

There isn't an open world game around which has changed the formula as much as this game has. The interactivity and depth alone is completely unique to this game.

I will never understand the praise Zelda gets if i'm honest, it's story and side missions are completely irrelevant and while the world is very good to explore what you actually find in the world wouldn't look out of place in a Ubisoft or at best a Bethesda game. Also i don't find that MGS and Uncharted are particularly unique to their predecessors tbh.

I won't really touch on your criticisms of RDR2 in your previous post because they are your opinions and not something i'm personally experiencing myself. But in terms of bringing something unique to the table compared to it's predecessors i feel i'm qualified to state that's incorrect as a matter of fact and not an opinion.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:52 am

Think I've seen enough, Dutch is one of the greatest characters I've ever seen.

by danyjr Fri Nov 02, 2018 12:44 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Don't really get this tbh, for one it changes more than any of those games did.

There isn't an open world game around which has changed the formula as much as this game has. The interactivity and depth alone is completely unique to this game.

I will never understand the praise Zelda gets if i'm honest, it's story and side missions are completely irrelevant and while the world is very good to explore what you actually find in the world wouldn't look out of place in a Ubisoft or at best a Bethesda game. Also i don't find that MGS and Uncharted are particularly unique to their predecessors tbh.

I won't really touch on your criticisms of RDR2 in your previous post because they are your opinions and not something i'm personally experiencing myself. But in terms of bringing something unique to the table compared to it's predecessors i feel i'm qualified to state that's incorrect as a matter of fact and not an opinion.

As I said RDR2 isn't a bad game by any means and I don't have an agenda against it. In fact I've recommended it to anyone who's asked me for an opinion because it is a top game, possibly 2018 GOT for me even. But because of its obvious flaws I can't give it a perfect score.

Zelda is a masterpiece in open-world design and IMHO the benchmark for the genre. It borrowed the best parts from all open world games and then added its own touch in ways nobody had ever done. The freedom it gave you in interacting with the world still is unprecedented and frankly way ahead of its contemporaries. How it almost felt like you were thrown into Hyrule and were free to do absolutely whatever you wanted, the way you wanted to do it. The systems and the world acted as the foundation of everything else in that game. The mechanics were always consistent and fair. If you are standing out in a lighting storm with metal on, you could get electrocuted. But if you throw a metal weapon by an enemy, they could get electrocuted instead. And everything in Zelda is to encourage and empower your experimentation with those systems. When the world pushes back like it does with rain or super difficult enemies, it is inviting you to retreat or get creative.

You can't say the same with RDR2 because it is devoid of those systems. Everything in that game exists to serve you more scripted content. And when the game is pushing back on the player, it is doing so to get you to stop and look at more of that content. Moreover RDR2 is a tale of two games. One, the single player portion where it is extremely scripted with very specific events playing out, and then you got the vast open world full of things to explore and stuff to do with more freedom. And both portions are quite well done, except for all the things I said in my original post.

Let me talk about combat in both games too, because it is a huge portion of the game. In Zelda, albeit with Nintendo's signature goofiness, you have one of the most human-like enemy AI's I have encountered. The combat is demanding but as there are so many ways to approach an enemy and the controls being so spot on, you can never claim you're being cheated against the CPU. Unlike RDR2's clunky shooting and cover system, poor movements and the general unresponsiveness. Just play Horizon: Zero Dawn back to back and you'll instantly feel the difference between sharpness in the controls and movements. It's day and night.

I've not been a huge fan of RPGs in my childhood and certainly still a newb in this genre, but cooking in Zelda definitely got me into exploring that aspect of the game, just like how Witcher got me interested in trying different potions and Signs. They added depth to the way I play and how I approach encounters in a way more suited to my playstyle. Now you tell me, what does the requirement to eat and comb my horse or his balls shrinking add in terms of depth to the game?

As I talked about looting and skinning and so on, I want to make a few comparisons. In GTA you simply don't loot. You just need to walk over a gun or money to claim it. With Assassin's Creed you simply need to hit a button to loot whatever there is. In Witcher 3 you have the typical RPG inventory where you choose what you want to collect and add to your inventory. In the original RDR you have a 1.5 second animation to loot. In RDR3 this animation is 4.5 seconds long. Why? What does it add to the game? It might look good but after a few times it gets repetitive and frustrating. No thanks.

Finally if you like spending your days chasing rabbits and picking flowers for your camp and then do it a hundred times more, be my guest. Maybe repetitive stuff are your thing hence why you don't like Zelda. But for me I don't have the time for that and frankly even if I had the time I would be reluctant to waste my it doing that anyway.

PS: When I spoke about Uncharted and MSG, I was talking about the external games that preceded the franchise. Nobody had previously done in-play cinematics they way Naughty Dog did, or stealth the way Kojima did. They were revolutionary.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:21 pm

I never said any of that though, I questioned your post that Red Dead 2 doesn't do unique things for the genre compared when an undoubtedly does. This isn't really an opinion either, pretty much all the systems in the game are factually new and unique to this game especially compared to it's predecessor.

As I said I'm not going to deal with your opinions because we'll just go round in circles. What I responded to was the point about it not being unique or doing something new when it undoubtedly does as a matter of fact.

by M99 Fri Nov 02, 2018 2:40 pm

Chapter 2+RDR 1 ending spoilers:

by Firenze Fri Nov 02, 2018 9:43 pm

Loving the game. However, I was thinking and IDK why but something feels missing, I was comparing it to TW3. I think it's better almost everywhere. But it doesn't feel as special to me. Weird. I can't put my finger on it. Open world is better IMO. Tons of side-content, gameplay is better. Story so far is about on par.

Maybe it comes down to setting for me. Feeling like I won't have the same feeling when I'm done with it as I did when I finished TW3 (Blood and Wine soon

) where I feel like I just finished something special and am sad to see it end.

by RealGunner Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:03 pm

Think it's about personal preference when it comes to world setting.

I don't personally think the RDR world holds a candle to The Witcher world. But it's because i just prefer medieval/fantasy type setting than a western/shooter type world.

by Thimmy Fri Nov 02, 2018 11:37 pm

RealGunner wrote:Think it's about personal preference when it comes to world setting.

I don't personally think the RDR world holds a candle to The Witcher world. But it's because i just prefer medieval/fantasy type setting than a western/shooter type world.

I think RDR's open world is filled with more content and more things to do outside of the main storyline, but I'm not as confident as Firenze in claiming that it's necessarily better. Some things certainly are, but overall.. I don't know. I prefer the basic gameplay of the Witcher 3. For me, RDR2's shooting mechanism is mostly about aim assist. I don't use Deadeye all that often, since it keeps running out, but that too is semi-automatic, or semi-assisted if you will. Many of the elements of realism in RDR2 just feel gimmicky to me. They were pretty neat at first, but I stopped caring about them after a while. That said, it makes the game unique and adds to the immersion, and although I think some of it became tedious very fast, they nailed it in other areas. I don't brew coffee very often, but I think it adds a nice touch to the game. And more importantly, it's optional.

One substantial difference, in my opinion, is that RDR2 has been a cakewalk, so far. I genuinely struggled at times in TW3, and getting progressively better at the game was part of what made it enjoyable. I enjoyed combat a lot more in TW3. In RDR2, it doesn't seem like anything fancy to me. It's decently enjoyable, but what sets it apart from other games is not the basic cover shooter mechanics, but again, the open world. I've had the most trouble with bounty hunters suddenly appearing and gangbanging me while I've been occupied with other things, like looting animations Razz

As long as you have cover to hide behind, you're usually good to go. inb4 Mole claims most challenging game of the century

by Firenze Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:14 am

eager to see what they do with the MP, if its just like TDM, capture the flag type shit I'll def pass on it, but if it incorporates some MMO elements and character progression with clans/gangs, could see myself playing it for a while, idk tho, very skeptical on if pure gameplay elements with no story can carry the game

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:38 am

Firenze wrote:eager to see what they do with the MP, if its just like TDM, capture the flag type shit I'll def pass on it, but if it incorporates some MMO elements and character progression with clans/gangs, could see myself playing it for a while, idk tho, very skeptical on if pure gameplay elements with no story can carry the game

It will be a better version of the first game's online which you obviously didn't play much if you are concerned about TDM etc etc lol.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:56 am

The game definitely feels special to me.

The world is absolutely exceptional, the dynamic nature of it due to the NPC interactions being leagues above anything else allows the world to feel more alive than any open world ever has.

As good as Witcher 3 was it's world was very static compared to what this game does.

The obscene amounts of depth in almost everything the game tries to do, the story and it's characters are exceptionally good and for the most part the missions are of extremely highly quality.

I very much enjoy the gunplay, walking through the streets with a bolt action rifle, shotgun or double revolvers in hand as you gun down enemy after enemy is incredibly satisfying.

The Max Payne like kill cams absolutely add to this feeling, they are an amazing edition to the game and dead eye also lends to this feeling especially when you rattle off 5-6 kills in a row.

People have criticised the controls but genuinely the only time they've annoyed me is the unresponsiveness of cycling through the weapon wheel.

Aiming or moving my character in combat hasn't ever been an issue for me, looting stuff is though I'll accept that lol.

There's way more I could cover but I think that covers the basics, I struggle to think what else I'd want from the game tbh.

by McLewis Sat Nov 03, 2018 5:09 am

The controls took some getting used to, but that's normal as far as I'm concerned.

I truly cannot think of a single glaring issue in this game that I've come across.

by CBarca Sat Nov 03, 2018 7:48 am

Don't understand the criticism for a 4.5 second animation. For one, it's 4.5 seconds. For two, how much are you skinning? It's a fair bunch, to be sure, but it's not the #1 thing I'm doing by any stretch of the imagination. Three, RDR2 is a SLOW game. You are meant to get lost within it. That's why the camp was made to be such a special place. It's not just a base to sleep and eat and drink coffee. It's a place to listen to Hosea's stories, or eavesdrop on Hosea and Dutch, or listen to Bill talk about Dutch taking him in, or interactions between Abigail and John that are heartbreaking to hear if you've played RDR1. These events occur organically in the camp and to me, it's one of the most special developments in RDR2, and one of the great innovations in the game, this "off hand" character development that you miss out on if you go at a pace that's too quick.

This slowness, this deliberate action from Rockstar to focus you on taking in, and taking on the world around you at a slower pace is something I personally appreciate. Especially when you look at most traditional westerns and what a slow genre it is.

And the tediousness is there to help with that. But I think it's balanced wonderfully. You can still go quick. No need to eat, no need to sleep hardly, don't need to stop back at camp if you don't want, cleaning your gun is like 3 seconds. Skinning is less than 5, brushing your horse only needs to be done here and there and barely has an effect either way so far as I can tell, and it's quick too. Fast travel can be enabled with a couple upgrades. But these are choices. One can go quicker like RDR1 or slower. It will be slower than RDR, but at the end of the day, R*, I think, did a good job at making that stuff optional, or quick if it's not.

Of course, it's all a matter of how you like to play and perception. I understand if someone didn't really see the point and just thought it was annoying. I don't see it that way tho.

Anyway I'm not far enough to really counter much of anything, I'm just loving the game so far

by RealGunner Sat Nov 03, 2018 12:15 pm

Does the game only have one ending or does it depend on your choices?

by Firenze Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:09 pm

damn, kinda disappointed, I got a trophy that confirmed the camp I'm at is the final one because I did an activity at each of them

was hoping the group would move at least one more time, because I haven't liked any of them after Horeshoe Overlook

I think that's kinda the point though

by Firenze Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:10 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Firenze wrote:eager to see what they do with the MP, if its just like TDM, capture the flag type shit I'll def pass on it, but if it incorporates some MMO elements and character progression with clans/gangs, could see myself playing it for a while, idk tho, very skeptical on if pure gameplay elements with no story can carry the game

It will be a better version of the first game's online which you obviously didn't play much if you are concerned about TDM etc etc lol.

I played a decent amount for a few weeks, but it was so long ago I forgot. I don't think it would hold up well nowadays, just having those game-types IMO.

got a feeling the Battle Royale could be fantastic in this though

by Firenze Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:16 pm

also, triple posting etc

but damn the world exploration is so good and for me the stranger quests are just the best in the game

love stumbling across some random thing in the middle of nowhere and it turns into something great

the atmosphere in this game is second to none, for me it just blows everything away that I've ever played

the lighting is absolutely insane and kinda frustrating at times with how realistic it is Laughing

I feel like a lot of games next gen will struggle to match it

by M99 Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:20 pm

Loving the game so far. And the open world has been amazing so far. Its basically Michigan, West Virginia, New Hampshire and Louisiana. The myriad of stuff to do is what sets it apart from Witcher 3's world for me where aside from quests it was just checklist of the same stuff in every region. Like CB said, I am completely lost in the world and am enjoying taking it slow. The 4.5 second animation is fine for me. I mean maybe its just because I loot like three guys per fight? I don't know why you would want to loot everyone unless you have OCD, ammo is aplenty in the game. In face you automatically pick up ammo when walking over like the GTA games, looting only gives you stuff like whiskey, cures or biscuits, and extra ammo.

by Firenze Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:26 pm

also I've said it before but this game puts the vast majority of horror games to shame Laughing

caught up in a thunderstorm last night, rain blasting down and I'm randomly exploring woods with my lantern out, can't see 5 feet in front of me, stumbling across abandoned shacks and not so abandoned shacks while eerie music plays, love how there's a little story everywhere if you're inquisitive enough and patient enough

Rockstar :bow:

by M99 Sat Nov 03, 2018 1:29 pm

Firenze wrote:also, triple posting etc

but damn the world exploration is so good and for me the stranger quests are just the best in the game

love stumbling across some random thing in the middle of nowhere and it turns into something great

the atmosphere in this game is second to none, for me it just blows everything away that I've ever played

the lighting is absolutely insane and kinda frustrating at times with how realistic it is

I feel like a lot of games next gen will struggle to match it

My favorite so far has been the circus guy who lost all his animals Laughing

That twist with the last animal had me rolling.

Also the mission where you get drunk with Lenny is probably the funniest mission Rockstar ever made.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:19 pm

RealGunner wrote:Does the game only have one ending or does it depend on your choices?

Dunno lol, I haven't finished it. Tom has though so I'll ask him.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:26 pm

Firenze wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Firenze wrote:eager to see what they do with the MP, if its just like TDM, capture the flag type shit I'll def pass on it, but if it incorporates some MMO elements and character progression with clans/gangs, could see myself playing it for a while, idk tho, very skeptical on if pure gameplay elements with no story can carry the game

It will be a better version of the first game's online which you obviously didn't play much if you are concerned about TDM etc etc lol.

I played a decent amount for a few weeks, but it was so long ago I forgot. I don't think it would hold up well nowadays, just having those game-types IMO.

got a feeling the Battle Royale could be fantastic in this though

I mean it had those modes but it was more like the base for what GTA Online became but I preferred it.

Running around in your posse with some mates, taken on gang hideouts and other activities was class. Also the bounty system was implemented way better than GTA Vs was.

You could rake up like a 10k bounty and the whole lobby would converge on you lol plus the law.

Interested to see where they will take it this time, would love special massive hunts designed for groups or something.

by RealGunner Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:29 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
RealGunner wrote:Does the game only have one ending or does it depend on your choices?

Dunno lol, I haven't finished it. Tom has though so I'll ask him.

How did he finish it so fast? wtf

by M99 Sat Nov 03, 2018 2:33 pm

South of Lemoyne there's this place called Catfish Jackson's. Heard a father and son arguing inside. Got in and the father told me to leave, and I hogtied him. Son went hiding under the bed, threatened him and he told about money stashed away in the fireplace. Also found a letter from his mother pleading him to come live with her.

Wonder how many of these are strewn across the map.

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