Juventus Champions League campaign 2016-17

idk m8, who were our midfielders back then ?

should we buy every Serie B starlet whose favourite club is Juve ?

Verratti and his agent have been sending messages that he wants to leave. Real don't need him as they already stacked with talent in midfield.Barcelona might be our only competitors for his signing and 80 mln + a wage of 7-8 mln € net is hard to refuse for bith PSG and player not to mention the player likrs to return in Italy and is a juventino plus our management already had meetings with his agent. His will is the key for the deal , we can easily afford to throw 80 mln on a player , Marotta said we had money to buy Higuain without sacrificing Pogba and this season we made 100+ mln from ChL. We got Higuain and Dybala on 7-7.5 mln net wages so we are in a strong financial position and some top clubs such as Real are completed in midfield and wont waste money.

We had the chance to sign him for 15mln or so but at the time we had Pirlo,Vidal,Marchisio,Pogba there so it was pointless and we didn't had much money either.

BTW : From football italia :

Marco Verratti admits he is “sorry” for Italy’s Juventus contingent and has vowed to “support” them while on international duty.

He can support us by forcing a move out of PSG and sign for us

Pjanic-Verratti with a new CM/DM to cover the defensive phase (Fabinho/Saul/S.M.Savic/Tolisso) would be beautiful.

Rumors say Allegri wants at least 2 top signings to stay so lets assume it's gonna be Verratti and a AMC James/Coutinho

IN: Verratti - James/Coutinho - Fabinho/Saul/SMS/Tolisso - De Sciglio - Schick - Keita (~200 mln €)

With the CL money (110 mln) and sales (we can gather at least 40 mln) means we only need to inject 50 mln €. That's completely doable but still not our type of mercato.Let's see how Marotta & Paratici will approach.

I mostly agree with you all on these transfers and plans.

On the final, for me losing in 2015 felt a lot worse. It sucks to lose but after seeing that second half then its unquestionable that we deserved the loss. Still a fantastic season, just 45 minutes away from a treble.

My only worry is where they go from here. Its not easy to significantly improve this starting 11 for us, I'm afraid that we might have hit the ceiling of this team and it wasn't enough to win the CL with them. Our attacking options on the bench will obviously be improved next season but I don't know if the main players will change much. Lets see what we can do next year, we just need the play with the same intensity as this year and have a bit of luck.

I would just throw money at Bernardeschi. Do everything we can to get him if there is a chance. He would let us free Dybala more to play as a striker instead of having to do so much in midfield.

That's my main concern, the fact that we have only 1 player who can carry the ball forward. We had Pogba before, we need another one again. Khedira CANNOT be the only midfielder/winger that runs through the lines.

I would either get a midfield 3 back, play with wingers that can act as midfielders (not Mandzukic and Cuadrado together), or play with an AM.

Such a player will be hard to get.

In other positions, Fabinho's agent (or someone from Monaco, forgot who) confirmed we are interested. That would be a singing I like. Along with Schick it would be a very positive start.

The more I watch Conti the more I like him. Hope we get him.

On more positive news, Orsolini has been devastating in the U20 WC. The Juve kids are playing very well. Respect to Marotta and co. for moving on so many talented young players to look for the future.

I saw a lineup of a Juve U23 and its fantastic, assuming we sign Schick:


I have high hopes for these players

Not gonna lie, saturday was a shit day and i was very upset. Two days later i've already 90% accepted the fact that we WON'T win the Champions League with this core in our team.

The italian core: Buffon, Chiello, Barzagli, Bonucci, Marchisio... it's 3 painful final loss in a row for them. Bonucci might recover since he is younger he will be a partner of Rugani & Caldara for the future. But all the others are doomed.

The attack core: Higuain is a notorious choker and he did it once again. 90M for this ? Crap. Better offload him right now while he still has some value, the sooner the better.


I still rate this team high, but the choking factor will be fresh in my mind next year if we reach the final. It's Gigi's last season and these *bleep* better give it all they got no matter what.

Keep in mind Higuain is going to be shit if we play like we played. If he doesn't get service, he's useless. He never even had the opportunity to choke in the final.

If we don't start playing a fluid attacking game any number 9 is useless in those situations.



The old saying goes 'Defence wins championships'

well, not the CL. Because if you take the game to your opposition, you don't need to defend so often. Time and time again you see it

"Oh our defence is twice as good as Barca's. As long as we test them in the final we'll win"

Get dicked 3-1.


"Reals defence lol, nothing on ours"

Get dicked 4-1


We put way too much emphasis on our defence in finals, that has to stop.

As much as we love and respect Gigi it's not our duty to gift him a CHL. It's not only because of Gigi but we are coming at the end of an outstanding defense we had.Chiellini and mostly Barzagli are on decline and I never trusted Bonucci, he's just too error prone when his partners are not in best form.He has improved of course but with that final performance he reminded me Bonucci of first two seasons , scoring own goals, deflecting shotw and always being unsure to go or not for a tackle , blocking Buffon's view , it was frustrating but let's not point out a player , we played bad as a team and the lack of pace in attack , technique in midfield and most importantly our starting 11 being tired as we don't have a quality bench to provide rotation.We were dominated in midfield , we couldn't make a three pass run or a decent counter cuz we are playing Mandzukic as a winger and Dybala out of position as well.That is OK for Serie A but we saw what happend.

We should decide if we'll go with wingers or with a trequartista behind strikers and a 3 man midfield behind the trequartista.
With first option we need at least two wingers (one top quality and one good back up) for the left side while Cuadrado and Alves are good at rotating with each-other on the right.
After that we need at least one top CM most likely a energetic b2b , we can't continue playing Khedira as one as he is too limited there , imo he'd be better as a holding mid in a 3 man midfield.
Also that means playing Dybala as AMC which doesn't makes me happy.He needs to play as a hybrid SS/WF closer to the box where he can use all his skills.

Like I said before and juve gigi said , a 4312 would be better as it would allow Dybala to play at his best and we'd gain back our 3 man midfield which worked better for us in CHL run of 2015.

Pjanic and Verratti creating from the back and going forward while some good defensive player Fabinho/Matic type to covers for them, while you may think Pjanic and Verratti are weak defending I don't think they are horrible at it, Verratti tackles a lot and Pjanic has improved a lot, add there a good defensive mid then it should be ok.

We need someone good enough to keep the ball and make combos with Dybala - Higuain upfront, some top AMC such as James or Coutinho.That would release a lot of pressure from our mid and defense.

And lastly we need to refresh our bench, bring some more cover for new formation and sell hopeless gambles we made on Asamoah,Lichtsteiner etc.

Now we might not bring all these good quality players but at least we need 2 and the third being a potential star,someone young worth taking the risk.

This team would have done much better in the CL final:

                   Dybala   Higuain

                        James

           Fabinho  Verratti  Pjanic

     Sandro  Chiellini  Bonucci  Alves

                        Buffon


2nd String:

                Keita   Mandzukic

                     Pjaca

       Bentancur  Marchisio  Khedira

     De Sciglio  Rugani  Benatia  Conti

                   Szczęsny

Tha's the 22 men I want for next year.  It all makes sense.  Lots of rotation.  Pjaca played as an AM/SS when he was younger so he can rotate in that position in a 4-3-1-2.  Cuadrado is basically a super sub off the bench and can make the occasional start if we want to switch to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.  One of Mandragora, Sturaro or Rincon can be chosen to fill out the last midfield spot and Audero is our third string GK to fill out the 25 man roster.

Schick can be purchased and loaned back to Sampdoria for the year.  Next year we bring him in along with Caldara.  Barzagli was a beast for us for many years but it is time I think that he retires so we can make room for an extra midfielder.  That's my take.

Exactly what I'm thinking bro. It's 2 TOP players in Verratti and James (or others of same tier) and a good player for the defensive part of midfield. (Fabinho or Matic)

The names you mentioned as for bench options are same with what I have in mind only that I would bring Schick right away and probably sell Mandzukic. I know Mandzo brings the grinta and experience plus he's a good performer on big games but we should trust youngsters more, look at Real, they got Morata,Asensio and others and they do play a fair amount of minutes even in a team filled with superstars.Plus Schick can rotate with both Higuain and Dybala.

For midfield we can decide between Bentacur and Mandragora plus keep one between Sturaro or Lemina as a benchwarmer.

For WB we only need De Sciglio imo as we will have to play Cuadrado as a WB as well and idk why that would be wrong since Real plays Marcelo and Barca plays Alba.

Higuain - Dybala

James/Coutinho

Pjanic - Matic/Fabinho - Verratti

Sandro - Chiellini - Bonucci - Alves/Cuadrado

Buffon

BENCH/ROTATION:

Scezny/Neto - Rugani - Benatia - Barzagli - De Sciglio - Khedira - Marchisio - Sturaro - Bentacur/Mandragora - Pjaca - Keita - Schick/Mandzukic

If that doesn't win a CHL then we should give up and not participate anymore in CHL

juvealbanian wrote:Exactly what I'm thinking bro. It's 2 TOP players in Verratti and James (or others of same tier) and a good player for the defensive part of midfield. (Fabinho or Matic)

The names you mentioned as for bench options are same with what I have in mind only that I would bring Schick right away and probably sell Mandzukic. I know Mandzo brings the grinta and experience plus he's a good performer on big games but we should trust youngsters more, look at Real, they got Morata,Asensio and others and they do play a fair amount of minutes even in a team filled with superstars.Plus Schick can rotate with both Higuain and Dybala.

For midfield we can decide between Bentacur and Mandragora plus keep one between Sturaro or Lemina as a benchwarmer.

For WB we only need De Sciglio imo as we will have to play Cuadrado as a WB as well and idk why that would be wrong since Real plays Marcelo and Barca plays Alba.

Higuain - Dybala

James/Coutinho

Pjanic - Matic/Fabinho - Verratti

Sandro - Chiellini - Bonucci - Alves/Cuadrado

Buffon

BENCH/ROTATION:

Scezny/Neto - Rugani - Benatia - Barzagli - De Sciglio - Khedira - Marchisio - Sturaro - Bentacur/Mandragora - Pjaca - Keita - Schick/Mandzukic

If that doesn't win a CHL then we should give up and not participate anymore in CHL

I love Andrea Conti. I hope we get him...

Tomwin Lannister wrote:Keep in mind Higuain is going to be shit if we play like we played. If he doesn't get service, he's useless. He never even had the opportunity to choke in the final.

If we don't start playing a fluid attacking game any number 9 is useless in those situations.



The old saying goes 'Defence wins championships'

well, not the CL. Because if you take the game to your opposition, you don't need to defend so often. Time and time again you see it

"Oh our defence is twice as good as Barca's. As long as we test them in the final we'll win"

Get dicked 3-1.


"Reals defence lol, nothing on ours"

Get dicked 4-1


We put way too much emphasis on our defence in finals, that has to stop.

Defense does win championships though bruv. Through this 6 year cycle, it's pretty clear. Even Serie A this season, we didn't have even the best or second best attack.

If we played a less open game in the final, we could've been better off but alas, Real is and was on another level from us.

In my humble opinion, we lack one quality midfielder for our starting 11 and what did us in is also the lack of quality attacking options.

I'm not saying we should aim to emulate Real Madrid because quite frankly, we do not have the means nor is it practical. But have you looked at the entirety of their squad? They have a ridiculous amount of depth. When you can have players like Bale, James, Assensio and Morata on the bench... that's a massive difference when you're aiming to compete for 3 trophies and play 50 games a season. They have it right, we got it wrong but take nothing away from this group. I know everyone wants to see us lift the CL, and I do too but at the end of the day, we made 2 finals in the last 3 seasons and we lost to superior teams with some generational talents within them.

Now we'll analyze the market and look to improve. I think there are too many positives from this season to be shattered about the CL.

This cannot be a game to make the argument against being defensive since we didn't play defensively at all. It was a boxing match with Madrid. We lost it in midfield.

Defense win championships because a championship lasts 38 weeks. For the sake of THIS final we should have played like in first half for the whole match.

How heartbreaking to end the 2016-2017 journey like this. It's like running a marathon and breaking your ankle in the last 200 meters.

We did not just lost a final but we were so badly played and confused that it was a shameful defeat.We performed much better in 2015 against a Barca side that was probably at their peak and maybe better than this Real.But back then we had an excellent midfield, now we only had Pjanic as a good player, Khedira (a free transfer from Real playing against his former team in a CHL match lol) was out of game.
The 3-1 defeat to Barca was less painful and somehow expected and their third goal (Neymar) came after a counter when we were pushing hard for the draw. This time we went as a more mature team and we fooled ourselves that we were so great that we were favorites over Real lol.
We even forgot about how mediocre our midfield had been most of the season and even though it did improve with time we were going to face Modric & co.
It's shameful how much we have damaged our midfield in last 2 seasons. We have lost Pirlo,Pogba and Vidal and we have added Pjanic as the only top player.That's 2 top CM short there and we have only added Higuain in attack (not counting Dybala as we already had a great attacker in Tevez in 2015)
We might not be able to buy all the names mentioned above but we need at least 2 TOP players both being midfielders 1 AMC & 1 DMC preferably.
There are other names that might be cheaper/easier to afford. If we can't get James or Coutinho we can go for Eriksen let's say.
If we can't get Matic we can go for W.Carvalho/Tolisso.Enough with Rincons and Hernanes please.

P.S I don't think anyone here has anything against our defense and our defenders.But if Barca wins CL with Pique and Real wins it with Ramos-Varane there must be something wrong with this team and it's not our defense which is cleary superior. It's our style of play, knowing our strength is the defense we rely heavily on it and there's nothing wrong during long runs of Serie A but in CHL (final) you can't expect any defense to hold Messi & co. or CR7 & co. for entire match.Lile it or not those two teams we faced (2015&2017) had a stellar attack and you can't get away without them scoring a goal or two.Not to mention they have brilliant players such as Modric and Iniesta backing them, they don't need better than Pique and Ramos to defend.

We will never thave that attack and midfield, we may from now to eternity have a better defense but you need quality midfielders and strikers who will keep the ball, make some damn counters to keep the pressure away from our defense, we got a brilliant defense but that doesn't mean we should just put it there as a wall and wait if CR7 or Messi will pass through them , of course they will sooner or later, aren't these guys payed millions to do that and haven't these guys 10 Golden Balls together, not to mention other stellar partners they have in attack, midfield and wings.
We may not get a prime Iniesta there to field him on a final but I expect from our management to field someone better than Khedira for example.
We might not have a better starting 11 or bench from them anytime soon but at least we can have a formation that allows our key players to play in their damn favorite positions.Using a ss/winger as trequartista, using a striker as a LM, using a limited holding mid as a box-to-box mid.Cmon.

Our midfield's performance against Modric, Kroos & Casemiro highlighted some issues that i thought we had gotten rid of.

#1 Lack of grinta
#2 Lack of defensive support
#3 Lack of spontaneous creativity

Marchisio is still the best of the trio but next season i expect him to be a regista and nothing else. Too injury prone i don't think he can be a box to box anymore. At best he will be an agressive DM who supports the major offensive phases. So we need someone ala Sturaro (but not him lol) to cover that.

Pjanic represents issue #3, he needs to improve his game when facing adversity. Juve is not AS Roma and you cannot take a day off. It's like this guy cannot improvize and be a leader when things go wrong. Most of the time he will go for a long pass so the pressure becomes Sandro's problem, or Higuain's. I still rate him as B+ quality, sometimes A, but you gotta admit... when Pjanic has a bad game he really plays like *bleep* shit.

Khedira represents issue #1 as well as #2.

What do you guys think about Javi Martinez as a our defensive midfielder in front of our defense? Anyone has followed him lately? He used to be great for Bayern but then he was injured most of the time but looks like he's got a good amount of minutes this season? We are interested in D.Costa as well and considering good relations we have eith Bayern after Vidal and Coman&Benatia deals I wouldn't mind a deal for both Costa and Martinez for 50-60 mln.

Chelsea are offering €55m plus Nemanja Matic in order to tempt Leonardo Bonucci away from Juventus, claim The Sun.
It was reported in Italy yesterday that the defender was more open to an exit from Turin than he has ever been before after losing the second Champions League Final in three years.
Now the Bianconeri are also ready to listen to massive offers for the centre-back who just turned 30.
According to The Sun newspaper in England, Chelsea are offering €55m (£48m) plus ownership of Serbian midfielder Matic.
This could swing it, as Coach Max Allegri is a big fan of Matic and Juve have been tracking him for some time.
He’s still only 28 and would bolster the midfield options, as the Old Lady prepare for another push for the Champions League trophy.
If news spreads that Bonucci is open to a Premier League move, then Manchester City may well enter the fray again, as Pep Guardiola called him one of his favourite ever players.

___________________

SELL? This could be a great deal as we secure Matic and with those money we can get a top AMC/trequartista and then go all in for Verratti.
If the offer is real is jusr too good to refuse, not to mention Man City can enter a bidding war and may raise it more.
We got Chiellini,Rugani and Benatia plus Barzagli and that's more than enough if we stay with a 4 man defense.

We can't sell Bonucci. What's gonna happen in 2018-2019 ? Youngs Rugani & Caldara will be the main partnership, with Chiello and Barz as back ups in a wheelchair ? As the youngest of the BBC he must stay for the sake of a better transition.

Also *bleep* Douglas Costa. Might as well keep Mandzukic and i'm dead serious. Don't remember a player being so much overrated, hope he joins SPAL or Benevento


EDIT: i'm down for Matic tho

We'll have Benatia as well (NOT advocating to sell Bonucci).

Btw, Spinazzola putting yet another show tonight. Maybe Italy's best player (2-0 vs Uruguay). In a time where LBs are so hard to find, he is a gem.

100m Bonucci
100m Dybala
75m Sandro
50m Higuain
40m Pjanic

This is the minimum price i would start listening for our stars, since we are not inclined to sell any of these players.

Someone knows what is Juventus budget for this mercato ? Assuming we sell nobody.

I know in terms of revenue we did quite well this year.

However, remember that half of Higuain's clause is paid this summer, Cuadardo's cost and Benatia has already been redeemed. Those are already significant funds invested.

Thankfully, we do not need MANY reinforcements, just a couple quality players, and if we can exchange some squad players for different squad players, that would be sweet also.

Allegri has decided the five names he wants this summer at Juve...

07 June at 19:42

The first step has been made, now they can think of the future. Juventus from Cardiff begins with a certainty, Massimiliano Allegri, who has today signed his contract renewal until 2020. He will still be the coach to lead the Bianconero project, which will see the introduction of at least five new faces. Juve knows that to improve the team that has won the sixth consecutive league, has raised their 12th Coppa Italia in its history (the third consecutive), and has climbed to the second stage of the podium in the Champions League is difficult. For this reason they need to make a jump in quality once again.

5 REQUESTS - Sharing and clarity, Allegri is in close contact with Paratici and Marotta, he speaks to them daily. Together they are working to build a team that next year wants to reach Kiev. These days the Livornese coach put some names on the table and made his demands involving all departments. He called for a viable alternative to Buffon, a defensive forward, a midfield player and two attacking wingers. Five purchases, which can give solutions and make Juventus more and more unpredictable. Five needs, which could change in case of a big departure (to be evaluated by Bonucci).

THE FIRST NAMES - In the goal, the choice falls on Szczesny, the former Arsenal keeper loaned to Roma, to which just under 15 million EUR were offered. The deal is close to the finish line, the Polish player said yes to a 4 year deal worth a reported 4 million net at a season. In defense the priority is De Sciglio, Milan's exiting wide player, who is considered the right reinforcement by age, experience and versatility. The Italian international wants a new project and considers Juve a leap of quality in his career, Marotta must now find an agreement with Fassone. In the middle of the field, where Juve has had few valid alternatives this season, the hottest names are those of Tolisso, who has already greeted Lyon, and Fabinho, Monaco's midfielder, who can play right-back if needed .

ATTACK FROM WING - And in attack that Juve wants to do things great. In addition to Schick there will be two wingers in the attack, the ideas are clear. Keita is the first choice, Juve hopes to reach an agreement with Lotito otherwise he is ready to wait next year when Senegalese player’s contract is due to expire. The second one will be one of these three: Bernardeschi, on which is Inter, Di Maria, who beyond the rite statements can leave Paris, and Douglas Costa, leaving Bayern Munich. Three big, all very expensive. But Higuain's arrival has been a single incident, and Juve has a chance to spend and should only point to the best.

juvealbanian wrote:Salmano don't get me wrong bro.

But you can't play a FINAL with all the play and pressure waving all over our defense as it will crack sooner or later and you have opponents packed with talent upfront.

Look at Real and Barca , they got mediocre defenses especially their CB and they still win ChL trophies for fun.

You know why? Did we ever put Ramos and Varane in trouble? Never. They didn't have to defend at all as we never put a decent final pass there and it looked like our midfield was miles away from our attack.

We were forced to play deep with our 2 man midfield as Madrid had 4 midfielders not to mention all of them being top quality and we having Khedira who doesn't have a chance to create nr. superiority due to his lack of technique.

Our left wing was fairly good and at least Sandro and Mandzukic tried to do something but Barzagli didn't help Dani as expected from e centre back. Barzagli's influence in game was not what Allegri expected as Ronaldo was all the time preying into our box and let Marcelo trouble Barzagli.

You can't win finals defending all the time , that's why on a 2 match run we would have a chance to beat Real but in finals you need firepower and you need to keep the pressure away from your defense.

And finaly , I was surprised we had run more km than Real , it was so ineffectice that in game it looked like Real was running twice. Our attacking duo were dead 50' in game because we have overplayed them.Real had Asensio,Bale and others fresh to make an impact and they did just that.

We had no one worthy for a final in bench apart Cuadrado who should have started to balance our right wing imo. Enough with the ultra defensive game , Real did a 1 shot 1 goal to us in first half. How do you respond to that? Defending? No! You get quality players and go all in as it's the last match ffs.

I got nothing against our defense, they are brilliant but our mid and attack were inexistent.

Now that we finally seem to got rid of 352 we need to adapt our team to 4231 by bringing proper wingers and a top CM as well. Maybe shifting Dybala back to the wing with Cuadrado as his sub and bringing a quality player that is more comfortable playing as AMC , Dybala shows limits.

Idk but Sanchez, Coutinho, Saul, Verratti idk who we should get but to win big you must spend big.

In that match, it was very clear that we needed a lot of experience. One of the main reasons RM won was because they have many players who achieved a lot in their careers, wining more than one CL and doing well in their leagues/National Teams. Our experience in the team mainly comes from the Italian core and the defence especially. We tried to bring in Khedira, Alves, Mandzukic and Higuain to boost that aspect of experience and class at the same time, which is something very smart to do. As for players like Dybala and Cuadrado they haven't shown much in that game as I expected, because they are still not used to playing these kind of finals. That is why I think that Cuadrado may not be good enough even to change the game in the final.

We played the best line-up we could in the final. It is just that that second goal completely destroyed us psychologically. Shots like these go in once every a million shots. That deflection was pure luck. Maybe we could have done something before we conceded the second goal?

The key now is continuing to build, getting experienced and young players like the past few years. We are doing well IMO, Schick Orsolini Caldara and many more in the future. Douglas Costa would be perfect. His price is reasonable, and we have excellent relationships with Bayern.

Let's not blame Cuadrado for what happened.He is a fantastic player with little brains so he will always be a hit or miss player otherwise he wouldn't be playing for us but Barca or Real, he's still a game changer if we are a bit lucky.

As for Costa I wouldn't be against it but I think it's gonna end up being a very bad move.
His best position is on the right but we have Cuadrado there.His main strength is using speed on 1vs1 situations and he's much worse than Cuadrado in tight spaces, he looks like a Krasiç 2.0.

And we can't expect to win CL with Bayern rejects .
We will pay around 30 mln € for him which is absurd consudering he's older,he had a bad season and Bayern payed same amount of money to get him from Shakhtar.
That's it , Bayern gets those money back without losing a penny and they get 30 mln € to chase Sanchez. They payed us like 37 mln € for Vidal? They got Coman from us for 11 mln € (17 mln Benatia fee). No wonder why our relations with Bayern are so good , they might give us Ribery after a year or two , maybe Robben too if we're lucky for a combined fee of 50 mln €.

juvealbanian wrote:
His best position is on the right but we have Cuadrado there.His main strength is using speed on 1vs1 situations and he's much worse than Cuadrado in tight spaces, he looks like a Krasiç 2.0.

yes that's precisely what he is, a fraud from the Far East leagues, exactly like Krasic was. Cuadrado & Bernardeschi are far better.

Everytime i watched D. Costa he was unimpressive at best. He'll be overpriced just because he comes from Bayern.