US Presidential Race

sportsczy wrote:@McLewis.  Goes without saying.  My deep distress and concern is not about the ability of the US to function.  Too many checks and balances for things to go astray much.

The issue is the message(s) that 60 million voters endorsed... that's is appalling to me.  NONE of us are Americans.  Only that native Americans are.  The US is a country built on immigration and cooperation.  Seems like half the population has completely lost perspective of the value that made this country what it is today.

I won't even go into the other asinine crap Trump said that is as damning, if not worse, than his views on minorities and immigration generally.

At this point, the shock of 60 million people voting for this guy has worn off for me. I'm beyond that now. What we need to do is understandy why they voted for him. It can't all be because Hillary is a criminal (which she is) and it definitely can't be because we have 60 million blatant racists, misogynists, sexists and other -ist you want to throw in there. We have to get over the shock of this and understand it now. I'm not a democrat and I'm not a republican so I have zero stake in either party.

We just need to take a hard look at what drove all these people to vote for a guy that many of them well and truly don't like. Understanding that is key to ensuring he and others like him don't stay in power a minute longer than they should.

Natalie Portman wrote:

Freeza wrote:Good diplomat? How exactly? By being open to a relationship with Putin who doesn't believe in basic human rights?

Hillary is a bad person because she isn't a billionaire? Got it.

Trump isn't a fraud? If you actually believe he didn't just bullshit his way to power then you're naive at best. He doesn't care about the working class and they won't get their help. He played them by manupulating their racist opinions.

WUT ?

I used to believe all the BS propaganda you guys read about Russia, before actually visiting the place. Putin is actually a centrist in Russia. If you bother to study on your own, you know that the 2 most popular parties after Putin' Party in russia, are FAR FAR RIGHT [openly wanting to bring back the USSR map], and FAR FAR LEFT [wanting full on communism, Stalin as their hero]. Just because you can't hold a gay pride parade and have men walk naked on the streets, all of a sudden Russia denies basic human rights It's Russia people' culture. I talked to many ordinary russians young and old, and they all said that they hold this belief. They are okay with people being gay and it's their own business, but they don't want it advertised and glamorized. Not every country has to be progressive.

You say Trump can't be a good person because he wants a peaceful relationship with Putin, yet say Hillary is better despite the fact that her campaign received tens of millions of donations from SAUDI ARABIA n QATAR !!! where GAYS ARE THROWN OFF THE ROOF. KILLED. MURDERED. women valued a bit better than dogs.

Have you been to Saudi Arabia? I HAVE.

SAUDI ARABIA is basically ISIS as a legitimate gov't (and they fund ISIS too, Clinton herself admitted).

Funny thing, less women voted for Hillary than they did in Obama in 2012....and less white people voted for Trump this year than they did to Romney in 2012.

but yea, racism and sexism

Great post.

McLewis wrote:We just need to take a hard look at what drove all these people to vote for a guy that many of them well and truly don't like

Might have something to do with his opponent essentially saying "whoever doesn't vote for us is a d*ckhead"

Natalie Portman wrote:

Freeza wrote:Good diplomat? How exactly? By being open to a relationship with Putin who doesn't believe in basic human rights?

Hillary is a bad person because she isn't a billionaire? Got it.

Trump isn't a fraud? If you actually believe he didn't just bullshit his way to power then you're naive at best. He doesn't care about the working class and they won't get their help. He played them by manupulating their racist opinions.

WUT ?

I used to believe all the BS propaganda you guys read about Russia, before actually visiting the place. Putin is actually a centrist in Russia. If you bother to study on your own, you know that the 2 most popular parties after Putin' Party in russia, are FAR FAR RIGHT [openly wanting to bring back the USSR map], and FAR FAR LEFT [wanting full on communism, Stalin as their hero]. Just because you can't hold a gay pride parade and have men walk naked on the streets, all of a sudden Russia denies basic human rights It's Russia people' culture. I talked to many ordinary russians young and old, and they all said that they hold this belief. They are okay with people being gay and it's their own business, but they don't want it advertised and glamorized. Not every country has to be progressive.

You say Trump can't be a good person because he wants a peaceful relationship with Putin, yet say Hillary is better despite the fact that her campaign received tens of millions of donations from SAUDI ARABIA n QATAR !!! where GAYS ARE THROWN OFF THE ROOF. KILLED. MURDERED. women valued a bit better than dogs.

Have you been to Saudi Arabia? I HAVE.

SAUDI ARABIA is basically ISIS as a legitimate gov't (and they fund ISIS too, Clinton herself admitted).

Funny thing, less women voted for Hillary than they did in Obama in 2012....and less white people voted for Trump this year than they did to Romney in 2012.

but yea, racism and sexism

You didn't recognize my point about Trump using people.

Do you really think he's going to go through with the promises he made to the working class?

A huge bunch of that working class show a lot of signs of racism. But is it due to them thinking that black people etc. are less worth? Not mainly. A small bunch of them of course.

But his hateful rhetoric about the sitting government and minorities have resonated with the working class, and understandably so, I don't fault them for this at all.

I was a Bernie supporter from the start, and I still feel he was the best option for them. Don't how much that would've helped, since the Republicans would probably prevent him from giving those people the help they needed.

American governments overall are a huge failure imo. The healthcare system is a mess. The NSA surveilance fiasco is downright criminal, and I fear for what it can become later on. How the banks were bailed out is still beyond me.

But I still fail to see how a Trump-led government is going to improve things, when they're basically gonna use the next few years sending America back to 2008 instead of actuallly improving the America working class.


I think we can both agree that there are a lot of racist supporters of both sides who use hateful rhetoric. But I can't see how this republican government is going to lead things forward, especially with a department starring Ben Carson, Sarah Palin and Pence.

All those three are lunatics.

Also Sepi, I know you'vee traveled a lot. But what is your political beliefs exactly?

Do you actually support the politics of a guy like Pence?

You've stated in the past how you've loved so many different countries like Russia, Denmark, Poland and Iran. All who have very different systems and beliefs. So what is your belief? And do you actually think your travels have resulted in much more than a superficial understanding of the country?

I know from my travels to Iran that everyone seems really amazing and great, but staying there from some months as I have haven't really given me a clear enough picture.

Team Trump is beginning to come together:

Transition Chair - This was Chris Christie up until a couple of hours ago. The Bridgegate scandal in NJ has forced him to step aside so Pence has taken on this role. Ivanka, Eric and Don Jr are all on the Exec Committee.

Chief of Staff -

Former campaign manager Corey Lewandowski,
Current campaign manager Kellyanne Conway,
RNC Chairman Reince Priebus,
Breitbart CEO Steve Bannon

Attorney General -
Chris Christie,
Rudy Giuliani (former mayor of NYC),
Alabama Senator Jeff Sessions,
Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi

Christie's probably not going to get considered due to the above and Bondi has a conflict of interest because she's prosecuting Trump University in Florida. There's already allegations that Trump has influenced her to go easy in her case.

Secretary of State

Senator Bob Corker from Tennessee
Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich

Gingrich is the top choice reportedly.

Secretary of Defense

Jeff Sessions
Retired General Mike Flynn
Stephen Hadley (NSA Official under Bush)
California Congressman Duncan Hunter
Former Missouri Senator Jim Talent

No clear front runner, but it's probably Sessions since he's one of Trump's earliest supporters and advisers.

Homeland Security Secretary

Chris Christie
Milwaukee Sheriff David Clarke
Jeff Sessions

Clarke is probably the pick since Sessions has eyes on other positions and Christie's likely out due to the above. He's become a hero on the right for denouncing the BLM movement. Oh and he's black, so there's that.

Interior Secretary

California Oil Exec Forrest Lucas (co-owner of Lucas Oil)
Venture Capitalist Robert Grady
Fracking Exec Harold Hamm
Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer
Oklahoma Gov. Mary Fallin
Former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin

No clue who is leading this one, but Palin

Treasury Secretary

Steven Mnuchin (Trump's Campaign Finance Chair and former Goldman Sachs exec)
Jamie Dimon ( CEO of JP Morgan Chase)
Wall Street Vet Carl Icahn
Texas Congressman Jeb Hensarling (Chairs the House Financial Services Cmte).

Mnuchin is definitely the top choice due to his current role. Dimon doesn't even want the job reportedly, but not sure about the other 2.

Education Secretary

Neurosurgeon Former GOP Presidential Candidate Ben Carson
Williamson Evers (Hoover Institution Fellow)

Carson

Commerce Secretary

Chris Christie
Jim Talent
Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee
Former Texas Gov. Rick Perry
Georgia Senator David Perdue
Financier Lew Eisenberg
Former Nucor (A steelmaker) CEO Dan DiMicco
Billionaire Investor Wilbur Ross

No clue here. Could be any one of them.

Health and Human Services Secretary

Florida Gov. Rick Scott
Ben Carson
Newt Gingrich
Former New Jersey State Senator Rich Bagger

Probably a better fit for Carson given his background so he'd probably be the top choice here.

Agriculture Secretary

Texas Agricultural Commissioner Sid Miller
Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback
Former Nebraska Gov. Dave Heineman
Former Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue
Rick Perry
Former Council of Farmer Cooperatives CEO Chuck Conner
Agribusiness Leader Charles Herbster
Indiana Dairy Executive Mike McCloskey
Iowa Agribusiness Mogul Bruce Rastetter
Indiana Farmer and Congressional Candidate Kip Tom

Take your pick, could be any of them. No surprise they're all from the midwest.

Energy Secretary

Harold Hamm
Robert Grady

Labor Secretary

Victoria Lipnic - Commissioner of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.

Veteran Affairs Secretary

Florida Congressman Jeff Miller - Chairs the House Veteran Affairs Cmte

-----------------------------------

What I find striking about this list is that while it has it's fair share of private sector names, it's full of DC Insiders and political operatives.

How can one "drain the swamp" when one's cabinet is made up of the exact kind of people one is trying to get out of Washington?

If Ben Carson gets in charge of education...

Guy doesn't believe in evolution and global warming, and some people want him in charge of stuff.


Gotta love Donald filling up the swamp though.

DuringTheWar wrote:

M99 wrote:Also yeah this is why people are "horrified"

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2016/11/01/saudi-student-assaulted-wisconsin-dies-his-injuries/93101338/

But lets compare Trump supporters feelings being hurt to minorities actually facing danger to their lives.

Victim Muslim, attacker white, therefore Trump supporter. Is this speculation the sum total of evidence around this case or is there actually a legit reason you are assuming this is about Trump?

Now let's see about those 'hurt feelings'

Maybe hurt feelings is code for hurt skull:

Spoiler:

Or debilitating injuries:

Spoiler:

Or being kicked into the ground + having car stolen:

Spoiler:

Or bullets flying through your windows:
http://www.wral.com/cary-man-says-someone-shot-at-trump-sign-on-his-front-porch/16205584/

Or a bullet in the leg:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2016/07/28/trump-supporter-shot-hospitalized-political-argument-cleveland/

And lots more hurt feelings besides these.

I didn't say anywhere that its notjust hurt feelings. I was calling out Sepi equating what his friends went through to people actually dying.

Of course you will dismiss this an an unrelated incident even though hate crimes have risen to the highest level since post 9/11. That is a complete coincidence too. It is understandable that Myseyats is puzzled on why people are horrified.

Trump likes main Obamacare provisions 'very much'

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-us-2016-37953528

He kinda has to. Even his own supporters need those provisions. No one wants to go back to a time where you could be denied health insurance because of a pre-existing condition. Just good politics to keep that in there. Since times are hard for milennials as well, staying on their parents insurance is also crucial. Makes a lot of sense for him to keep those.

The rest? Yeah that's gone. And honestly, it's probably not the worst thing in the world. Obamacare was a noble step in the right direction, but with the price hikes, it's pricing out the people it was supposed to help.

McLewis wrote:I have zero confidence in Trump. Absolutely none.

That said, he's going to be flying the plane, so to speak, and I think it's counter-productive to actively root against pilot of the plane you're on, which is basically what these protesters are doing. We need to hold him accountable, just like conservatives took Obama to task over and over again during his 2 terms. I don't support any of Trump policies, but I support his effort to unite us. if he can do that at least, that's a start.


Also - It's Pence that gives me a lot more pause. He's the one the LGBTQ community should really fear if he ever does come into any real power. Thankfully, the VP is a glorified backup to the president so unless he's Machiavellian enough to try and be the power behind the throne (in direct confrontation with whoever Trump picks as his Chief of Staff), he'll be pretty harmless.

Pence is dangerous - Abortion rights will be on the table now - This guy wanted people to bury the feutus if people had an abortion!

And he will have a huge role because Trump understands nothing - He offered Kasich the VP role & a free hand & said he could handle foreign & domestic policies & he will just focus on making America great again.

Trump is gonna be very bad IMO but then Obama never fought for anything & surrendered meekly to the GOP!

I feel sad that Dems cheated Bernie out & Bernie would have done incredibly well in the rust belt in OH, PA, WI & MI - That was his strong base.

Millennial turnout has collapsed to 19% from 51% in 2008. Clinton got 7M less votes than Obama in 12 - Democrat turnout was very bad! Dems have ruined their party to the ground - House of Rep, Sen, Presidency, Gov, State Senate, State Rep, etc - Look at downballot races - If Dems don't embrace their base & progressive values promoted by Sanders the party will be ruined!

footyfan01 wrote:

McLewis wrote:I have zero confidence in Trump. Absolutely none.

That said, he's going to be flying the plane, so to speak, and I think it's counter-productive to actively root against pilot of the plane you're on, which is basically what these protesters are doing. We need to hold him accountable, just like conservatives took Obama to task over and over again during his 2 terms. I don't support any of Trump policies, but I support his effort to unite us. if he can do that at least, that's a start.


Also - It's Pence that gives me a lot more pause. He's the one the LGBTQ community should really fear if he ever does come into any real power. Thankfully, the VP is a glorified backup to the president so unless he's Machiavellian enough to try and be the power behind the throne (in direct confrontation with whoever Trump picks as his Chief of Staff), he'll be pretty harmless.

Pence is dangerous - Abortion rights will be on the table now - This guy wanted people to bury the feutus if people had an abortion!

And he will have a huge role because Trump understands nothing - He offered Kasich the VP role & a free hand & said he could handle foreign & domestic policies & he will just focus on making America great again.

Trump is gonna be very bad IMO but then Obama never fought for anything & surrendered meekly to the GOP!

I feel sad that Dems cheated Bernie out & Bernie would have done incredibly well in the rust belt in OH, PA, WI & MI - That was his strong base.

Millennial turnout has collapsed to 19% from 51% in 2008. Clinton got 7M less votes than Obama in 12 - Democrat turnout was very bad! Dems have ruined their party to the ground - House of Rep, Sen, Presidency, Gov, State Senate, State Rep, etc - Look at downballot races - If Dems don't embrace their base & progressive values promoted by Sanders the party will be ruined!

The party is already ruined.

footyfan01 wrote:

McLewis wrote:I have zero confidence in Trump. Absolutely none.

That said, he's going to be flying the plane, so to speak, and I think it's counter-productive to actively root against pilot of the plane you're on, which is basically what these protesters are doing. We need to hold him accountable, just like conservatives took Obama to task over and over again during his 2 terms. I don't support any of Trump policies, but I support his effort to unite us. if he can do that at least, that's a start.


Also - It's Pence that gives me a lot more pause. He's the one the LGBTQ community should really fear if he ever does come into any real power. Thankfully, the VP is a glorified backup to the president so unless he's Machiavellian enough to try and be the power behind the throne (in direct confrontation with whoever Trump picks as his Chief of Staff), he'll be pretty harmless.

Pence is dangerous - Abortion rights will be on the table now - This guy wanted people to bury the feutus if people had an abortion!

And he will have a huge role because Trump understands nothing - He offered Kasich the VP role & a free hand & said he could handle foreign & domestic policies & he will just focus on making America great again.

Trump is gonna be very bad IMO but then Obama never fought for anything & surrendered meekly to the GOP!

I feel sad that Dems cheated Bernie out & Bernie would have done incredibly well in the rust belt in OH, PA, WI & MI - That was his strong base.

Millennial turnout has collapsed to 19% from 51% in 2008. Clinton got 7M less votes than Obama in 12 - Democrat turnout was very bad! Dems have ruined their party to the ground - House of Rep, Sen, Presidency, Gov, State Senate, State Rep, etc - Look at downballot races - If Dems don't embrace their base & progressive values promoted by Sanders the party will be ruined!

While I did vote for a Democratic President the past 2 elections before this, I'm not solidly a Democrat so their turmoil isn't high on my list of fraks given.

Down ballot, I voted for a lot of 3rd party candidates. And I'm going to keep doing that because we need more representation than just Democrats and Republicans. This was probably the first time I felt honestly very good about the choices I made on my ballot. I didn't compromise and I didn't vote for anyone I truly didn't want to vote for, unlike the last 2 times.

As for Pence, I'm a native of Indiana so I understand intimately what he's all about. He'd make Reagan look down right progressive and Nixon look like a Nobel Peace Prize Laureate.

The electoral system being stopped would also result in the destruction of an absolute two-party system which I think would benefit the country greatly. For that to happen you'd need a huge democratic lead in congress I'd guess.

The issue is that the Democrats benefit from the electoral college as much as the GOP does though. For that reason, they (just like the GOP) will have no real reason to want to reform it.

As reviled as it is right now, the electoral college is here to stay. It's as much an institution in this country as the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and the rest of the Constitution.

For me, this is kinda like when Roma loses and then we (the fans) blame the ref for every little mistake that they made instead of the players and coach for not doing enough to win. That's where I am with the Democrats. The electors of the electoral college had no confidence in Clinton so they voted against her. If the Democrats wanted to win, they needed a better candidate. Maybe that was Bernie, maybe it was someone else.

Have I yet told you that I'm really, really sorry for our fabulous US-American GL posters. It's really sad and my thoughts, love and solidarity go out to you.

It's bad for the rest of us too, mind you, what with the climate and stuff, but the difference will surely be more felt in the US.

Let's hope the sheer malevolent incompetency of House republicans and the sheer malevolent incompetency of Trump end up doubling down on incompetency in that nothing gets done.
But if by chance they manage to meaningfully allign forces on a issue they can do a lot of damage now.

Freeza wrote:The electoral system being stopped would also result in the destruction of an absolute two-party system which I think would benefit the country greatly. For that to happen you'd need a huge democratic lead in congress I'd guess.

No it wouldn't, the two party system survives because of the first past the post system, not because of the electoral college

Obama armed ISIS and Hillary would continue on doing that. Donald Trump was the only way.

McLewis wrote:The issue is that the Democrats benefit from the electoral college as much as the GOP does though. For that reason, they (just like the GOP) will have no real reason to want to reform it.

How does it benefit the dems? The electoral college benefits the sparsely populated middle at the expense of the dense coasts by giving each state a +2 electoral votes.

Rooting for him to fail goes against every fiber in my being. This is exactly what the right did to Obama and they did it relentlessly. That cycle can't continue. It's incredibly divisive and destructive.

If Trump wants to unify us, it starts with those who fear him the most. He needs to give them a reason not to fear him and what he intends to do as president. More importantly, he needs to actually lead his supporters. It's only 3 days in so there's still a lot of hyperbole being thrown about on both sides and that will continue until his inauguration.

The early signs are not promising though.

I agree with mclewis. I'll respect our president and I'll try to support him.

Is he going to be good? Well, I'm not gonna be the one who said "I told you so". You guys dug your own grave, America. Have fun.

McLewis wrote:Rooting for him to fail goes against every fiber in my being. This is exactly what the right did to Obama and they did it relentlessly. That cycle can't continue. It's incredibly divisive and destructive.

If Trump wants to unify us, it starts with those who fear him the most. He needs to give them a reason not to fear him and what he intends to do as president. More importantly, he needs to actually lead his supporters.  It's only 3 days in so there's still a lot of hyperbole being thrown about on both sides and that will continue until his inauguration.

The early signs are not promising though.

What does that even mean, "fail"? Fail at what?
At 'making America Great again'? Yeah sure, you'd want him to succeed

But what does that mean? How is he going to try to do that?
Do you want him to succeed in slashing corporate taxes, rolling back health care reform, vetoing every climate protection effort, nullifying the Iran agreement, building a wall over thousands of kilometers, banning Muslim immigration, expanding Guantanamo, legalizing torture, killing the families of terrorists with bullets bathed in pig blood?

I'd say you should be rooting for him to fail on these counts..

FennecFox7 wrote:I agree with mclewis. I'll respect our president and I'll try to support him.

Is he going to be good? Well, I'm not gonna be the one who said "I told you so". You guys dug your own grave, America. Have fun.

Respect is earned, not given though.

Would you respect a guy like Trump if he didnt have the office of the United States?


A racist
A cheat(who brags about not paying their taxes?)
A guy who brags about being able to do whatever he wants with women because he's a star?

I don't care if he shit out gold, and gave every American 40 acres and a fucking mule I'll never support him. He doesnt represent my values, or any values I was taught growing up in a state that OVERWHELMINGLY voted for him. So obviously something has happened here. Either they have it wrong about what it is to be an American or I do.

I'll be the first to admit that I am out of touch though. I honestly thought Hillary was going to walk this election.

I respect the office of POTUS. That's completely different from respecting the man occupying it.

What do you even mean with respecting him?
Constantly opposing the politicians in power you don't agree with is one of the most important parts of democracy.