As a liberal I have to say and I might get some heat for it but I will do it anyhow. Here's what I think we need today the most, we need renaissance in Islam, it's long overdue. Every religion got nutjobs,Christians got them Hindus got them and upto some extent every other religion got them. But due to the fact that every other major religion has undergone renaissance there is a strong front who continuously neutralize​s these wackos.
   The problem we are facing today is two fold, firstly there is a rise of  terrorist organisations and second and most important is the rise of right wing goat feckers like Borris and Trump which is as dangerous as the first one.The first one is killing innocent people and second one is scaring them and getting the political mileage out of it. Is it a coincidence that every major country is either opting for right wing​ leaders or in process to do so?
  The Kautilya, our own Machievelli used to say that if  u want to rule people make them believe that there exist some monster out there who is going to kill you in near future and then convince them that you are the only one who can save them from it. Isn't same thing happening today?  For Islamic terrorists that monster is west and for right wing conservatives it is Islamic terrorist organisations.
  Hence the responsibility lies on the well educated Muslims, who really doesn't have anything​ to do with it. but you have to own this one brothers. There need to be wholesale revamps like it happened with Christianity and Hinduism.  There has to be the pressure group that will act as a buffer to these extremists. Let me once again clearify that I am in no capacity blaming it on you, only a ignorant moron would do so but someone needs to take out the garbage. Islam needs to find​ the school of thought, the counterforce that will strelize the virus called terrorism which is slowly spreading in its body. If we don't have that in near future I believe the things are going to be much worse.

RealGunner wrote:Why do they do it? Why did this guy do it?

he was brain washed by religion. ISIS. the madrid bombers. the bali bombers. the London bombers. 9/11 terrorists. the france german and brussles attacks the lee rigby killers. the attacks in Africa were all committed by people from all parts of the world. they all races and colours. the only thing they had in common was religion. people don't like it when anyone says it but its true.

But what is your personal solution to this?

RealGunner wrote:But what is your personal solution to this?

the law needs to be much stricter on anyone know to have extreamist views or preaching hate before they go out and kill people. the religious schools need to be done away with altogether or be monitored at the very least. any preacher that preaches any kind of hate in the mosques should be locked up for a long time and put on a life licence when released. the mosques need to be monitored. no muslim only comunites. and strict back ground checks on anyone coming into the country. that's where I would start. that way you can weed out the terrorists and stop young muslims from being brain washed into being the next terrorist.

All these measures are not sustainable imo.Terrorism is an ideology and you cannot kill or lockup an ideology. It will find it's way however fortified you are. Only way to annihilate it is by fighting it with other ideology and as I have stated earlier that ideology needs to develop in Islam itself. Our role is to create a suitable environment for its development.

RealGunner wrote:Nah you can still get a job depending on how long it has been and how minor the crime was. That's not really an issue

The issue is that he was born and raised in the UK. Wasn't a refugee, nor a foreigner nor an immigrant. As British as me and you.

And yet he became an extremist.

As good as our intelligence system is. It's hard to prevent something like this. As firenze mentioned before, this required as minimum planning as possible without much tech involved so no chance of getting caught.

How do we prevent this in the future?

Close down the Centers that dehumanizes non believers. They take up arms because some are teaching them that non believers are lesser human beings.

Lucifer wrote:All these measures are not sustainable imo.Terrorism is an ideology and you cannot kill or lockup an ideology. It will find it's way however fortified you are. Only way to annihilate it is by fighting it with other ideology and as I have stated earlier that ideology needs to develop in Islam itself. Our role is to create a suitable environment for its development.

it would help a lot if you monitor the people and places where a ideology is being preached.

Lucifer wrote:All these measures are not sustainable imo.Terrorism is an ideology and you cannot kill or lockup an ideology. It will find it's way however fortified you are. Only way to annihilate it is by fighting it with other ideology and as I have stated earlier that ideology needs to develop in Islam itself. Our role is to create a suitable environment for its development.

The problem is soudi dude. Bible has even more hate speech but they now with the help of Pope culture has created a massive peace PR which we can see on the community as well.

Muslims look towards to Soudi as ideal Islamic State and guess what they see there? . Unless Soudi fall the Hardline ideology will stand. Secular Muslims can however create a change even if it is very little.

I think the quran is in bad need of a update tbh. if you look at the violence in the quran you can see why its easy for hate preachers to twist peoples minds into doing bad things.

Unique wrote:I think the quran is in bad need of a update tbh. if you look at the violence in the quran you can see why its easy for hate preachers to twist peoples minds into doing bad things.

Bible has just as much. The difference is people taking their religion bit too seriously.

Adit wrote:

Unique wrote:I think the quran is in bad need of a update tbh. if you look at the violence in the quran you can see why its easy for hate preachers to twist peoples minds into doing bad things.

Bible has just as much. The difference is people taking their religion bit too seriously.

I wont argue that because ive not read either book but I would be very surprised if the bible had as much violence in it as the quran.

Unique wrote:

Adit wrote:

Unique wrote:I think the quran is in bad need of a update tbh. if you look at the violence in the quran you can see why its easy for hate preachers to twist peoples minds into doing bad things.

Bible has just as much. The difference is people taking their religion bit too seriously.

I wont argue that because ive not read either book but I would be very surprised if the bible had as much violence in it as the quran.

Don't tell me you don't know prophet basically stole Bible and added his own bits to create Quran.

Adit wrote:

Unique wrote:

Adit wrote: Bible has just as much. The difference is people taking their religion bit too seriously.

I wont argue that because ive not read either book but I would be very surprised if the bible had as much violence in it as the quran.

Don't tell me you don't know prophet basically stole Bible and added his own bits to create Quran.

i know a little but not enough to really debate about it.

I haven't read the Quran but I did read some of the bible growing up and it's full of messed up stuff.

You always see people quizzing others on the internet presenting violent verses and asking which book they are from. People can rarely differentiate the bible from the Quran

rincon wrote:I haven't read the Quran but I did read some of the bible growing up and it's full of messed up stuff.

You always see people quizzing others on the internet presenting violent verses and asking which book they are from. People can rarely differentiate the bible from the Quran

tbh from the little bits i have seen jesus seems like a bit of a hippie and Mohamed seems like a bit of a war lord. not that it matters anyway because both religions have killed hundreds of millions of people in there history.

Unique wrote:

rincon wrote:I haven't read the Quran but I did read some of the bible growing up and it's full of messed up stuff.

You always see people quizzing others on the internet presenting violent verses and asking which book they are from. People can rarely differentiate the bible from the Quran

tbh from the little bits i have seen jesus seems like a bit of a hippie and Mohamed seems like a bit of a war lord. not that it matters anyway because both religions have killed hundreds of millions of people in there history.

Yeah, organized religions like these are cancer. Too much power hanging on bullshit.

Jesus is kind of a hippie, but God is an asshole in the bible

Unique wrote:

RealGunner wrote:But what is your personal solution to this?

the law needs to be much stricter on anyone know to have extreamist views or preaching hate before they go out and kill people. the religious schools need to be done away with altogether or be monitored at the very least. any preacher that preaches any kind of hate in the mosques should be locked up for a long time and put on a life licence when released. the mosques need to be monitored. no muslim only comunites. and strict back ground checks on anyone coming into the country. that's where I would start. that way you can weed out the terrorists and stop young muslims from being brain washed into being the next terrorist.

I don't think the mosques should be monitored, nothing good will come out of it. I'm definitely for strict background checks, that's what I've been arguing for all along, but in our liberal, western European countries, that's definitely easier said than done.

The friend I have the most respect for out of all of my friends is a former colleague who was born and raised in Norway, but is originally from Pakistan. A die-hard Arsenal supporter, and a guy who always insists on being the sober driver at parties, he's genuinely the nicest person I know, and both he and his older brother were always talked about in high regard whenever their names were brought up in our workplace.

However, there's a law in Norway, and in several other countries as well I believe, that allows foreign relatives of Norwegian citizens to migrate to the country without much hassle involved in the process; and through that law, my friend's uncle flew over from Pakistan believing he would settle down here with the rest of his family. On his first day after arriving here, he went inside a local restaurant, asked to speak with the owner of the place, and then proceeded to threaten him for "protection money". The police arrived shortly after, and he was put in jail. I don't know what happened to him after that, but I know he was still in Norway a year after that incident. I can't even begin to understand why there is no thorough background checks involved in such cases.

Naturally, there's always the "yeah, but that's racist" or some argument related to how heartless it is to separate family members from each other from our ultra liberals, but surely it's just common sense to do some research on people who intend to permanently reside here I swear, our liberal politics have gone from being supposedly progressive to regressive, much like our modern day feminists.

On his first day after arriving here, he went inside a local restaurant, asked to speak with the owner of the place, and then proceeded to threaten him for "protection money"

lmao wtf?

What is protection money and why was he asking for that on his first day of arriving?

Thimmy wrote:

Unique wrote:

RealGunner wrote:But what is your personal solution to this?

the law needs to be much stricter on anyone know to have extreamist views or preaching hate before they go out and kill people. the religious schools need to be done away with altogether or be monitored at the very least. any preacher that preaches any kind of hate in the mosques should be locked up for a long time and put on a life licence when released. the mosques need to be monitored. no muslim only comunites. and strict back ground checks on anyone coming into the country. that's where I would start. that way you can weed out the terrorists and stop young muslims from being brain washed into being the next terrorist.

I don't think the mosques should be monitored, nothing good will come out of it. I'm definitely for strict background checks, that's what I've been arguing for all along, but in our liberal, western European countries, that's definitely easier said than done.

The friend I have the most respect for out of all of my friends is a former colleague who was born and raised in Norway, but is originally from Pakistan. A die-hard Arsenal supporter, and a guy who always insists on being the sober driver at parties, he's genuinely the nicest person I know, and both he and his older brother were always talked about in high regard whenever their names were brought up in our workplace.

However, there's a law in Norway, and in several other countries as well I believe, that allows foreign relatives of Norwegian citizens to migrate to the country without much hassle involved in the process; and through that law, my friend's uncle flew over from Pakistan believing he would settle down here with the rest of his family. On his first day after arriving here, he went inside a local restaurant, asked to speak with the owner of the place, and then proceeded to threaten him for "protection money". The police arrived shortly after, and he was put in jail. I don't know what happened to him after that, but I know he was still in Norway a year after that incident. I can't even begin to understand why there is no thorough background checks involved in such cases.

Naturally, there's always the "yeah, but that's racist" or some argument related to how heartless it is to separate family members from each other from our ultra liberals, but surely it's just common sense to do some research on people who intend to permanently reside here I swear, our liberal politics have gone from being supposedly progressive to regressive, much like our modern day feminists.

RealGunner wrote:

On his first day after arriving here, he went inside a local restaurant, asked to speak with the owner of the place, and then proceeded to threaten him for "protection money"

lmao wtf?

What is protection money and why was he asking for that on his first day of arriving?

have you never seen a gangster movie

Unique wrote:

rincon wrote:I haven't read the Quran but I did read some of the bible growing up and it's full of messed up stuff.

You always see people quizzing others on the internet presenting violent verses and asking which book they are from. People can rarely differentiate the bible from the Quran

tbh from the little bits i have seen jesus seems like a bit of a hippie and Mohamed seems like a bit of a war lord. not that it matters anyway because both religions have killed hundreds of millions of people in there history.

Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris have all pointed out how sadistic and manipulative God of the old testament is, something I can confirm as I've actually read it, but that doesn't prevent some christians from believing that their God is somehow the definition of moral superiority.

Protection money i bet that guy binged Sopranos

RealGunner wrote:

On his first day after arriving here, he went inside a local restaurant, asked to speak with the owner of the place, and then proceeded to threaten him for "protection money"

lmao wtf?

What is protection money and why was he asking for that on his first day of arriving?

I have no clue why he did it, lol. I asked my friend, his nephew, what it meant. Apparently, in Pakistan it's not uncommon for shop and restaurant owners in some areas to be forced by gang members to pay a weekly, monthly or daily fee for their "protection", or the illusion of being protected. Evidently, his uncle who had previously been part of a gang, figured he could the same thing here. And who can blame him? Sounds like easy money, and he had no way of knowing that things are different here since the Scandinavian countries are amateurs at integrating foreign immigrants.

Thimmy wrote:

Unique wrote:

rincon wrote:I haven't read the Quran but I did read some of the bible growing up and it's full of messed up stuff.

You always see people quizzing others on the internet presenting violent verses and asking which book they are from. People can rarely differentiate the bible from the Quran

tbh from the little bits i have seen jesus seems like a bit of a hippie and Mohamed seems like a bit of a war lord. not that it matters anyway because both religions have killed hundreds of millions of people in there history.

Hitchens, Dawkins and Harris have all pointed out how sadistic and manipulative God of the old testament is, something I can confirm as I've actually read it, but that doesn't prevent some christians from believing that their God is somehow the definition of moral superiority.

i think that's the problem with all religions.

Lucifer wrote:Protection money i bet that guy binged Sopranos

http://news.sky.com/story/man-tries-to-drive-into-shopping-street-at-high-speed-in-antwerp-10811487

thankfully no one was killed in this attack.