Fans need to stop talking about worth

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Fans need to stop talking about worth Empty Fans need to stop talking about worth

Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:37 pm

It's gotten old, whenever a transfer is mentioned, and the price is announced, people go nuts over what the player is worth, as if there is a metric to determine such a subjective concept.

As the great Jalen said, you are only worth what you have the leverage to negotiate. That applies to clubs, agents, and players. If Raiola can leverage 25 millions in commissions for his work, and United are willing to pay that? then what the hell does it matter to the rest of the world? If Juve feel as though 120 millions euros is what they would like for Pogba, then who are we to talk about what he is worth. Well, actually he is worth as much since that's what juventus is willing to accept.

You can't have one football discussion now before you get worth thrown in your face. Dont get me wrong, it's funny as hell to know that Man United are paying 300k/w for ROoney, complete washed up player, real hustle job.

At the end of the day, it's not our money, well, it kind of is or at least as some have mentioned here, it's because of us fans that there is now so much money in football.

So in the case of someone like HIguain, people shocked by his price and all but the real bottom line is, "are juventus a better team with Higuain?" Hell to the fcking yes, i mean he is a chokster like you see once in a generation, but he is also a damn good goalscorer and his luck will turn at some point, that's just life.

Barca paid a  boat load for a portuguese bench warmer with chronic injuries but are they on paper better off with an actual box to box? yes.

Arguing a player's worth is a waste of time, it's bloating all football discussions here and blinding people from how good the player actually is.
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Post by Luca Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:59 pm

Yet we argue the quality of professional football players, we argue the tactics against professional managers, we argue about which team played better in game x versus game y....

So, wholeheartedly, in the most opinionated way, to quote the great Rosa Parks, "no"

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Post by Lucifer Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:03 pm

This thread is effort of infringement of First Amendment imo and need to be ressisted with full might by the vigilant citizens of Goal Legacy.

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Post by Bankz Sun Jul 24, 2016 6:22 pm

If mehdrid can swim on and not win a single la liga cup in the next 5 decades, what does it matter to the rest of the world? Afterall it isn't our drinking cup, right? Very Happy

If Meh S N can go on missing penaldos till they retire what does it matter to the rest of the world? Afterall, we aren't the scoreboard, right?

And finally, If people go on and complain about a players worth till sun rise, what does it matter to nick? After all, its our opinion, right? :coffee:

Point being. GIVE IT A BREAK!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:20 pm

It's the summer, what else are we going to talk about?
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Post by Art Morte Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:31 pm

When talking about the highest level, the best players in the world, I agree with the OP. There often are no alternatives at the highest level. Either you pay £100m for Pogba or just sign another washed up Schweinsteiger. It's kinda pointless to talk about whether Pogba is worth that or not if he's the only available CM of elite quality. The very best players, they cost what they cost. But when you step down from that level, a player's worth in transfer fee (and wages) becomes a more sensible topic. That's when you start having more and more alternatives and should probably realise that paying £34m for Sadio Mané is not how you should be spending your transfer kit.
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Post by CBarca Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:38 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:It's the summer, what else are we going to talk about?


Yeah exactly this. Plus I never got the whole "it's not your money so you can't talk about it" BS. I don't live in the UK, as an American citizen, Brexit is something that affects me relatively little. It doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on it, not does it mean I can't talk about it.

And yeah I get the whole "they're worth what the club is willing to pay thing" and it makes sense. That's not what it's about. Are Juventus a better team with Higuain? Absolutely. Will Higgy lead them to a Serie A and CL double (or even treble?), maybe...who knows. If he does it was certainly worth it. However, could Juventus have strengthened in other places and managed to create a stronger team that splashing it all on Higgy?

In the sense of that last point, we have come back to worth and the investment of resources. That last question is something that is fun to talk about. And regardless of what you say, there is a very real "return on investment" when it comes to players. It's completely fine that people debate whether Higuains return on investment is 94m or whatever.

Tl;dr : talking about worth is an activity that is interesting and fun to debate. Stop acting like nobody can talk about it just because you think you have a pretty cool definition of "worth". Good for you. As BC said, what the hell else are we supposed to talk about?
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Post by Adit Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:40 pm

I don't think you can feel funny about Rooneys wages and then question people when they find Pogba s 150 million transfer fee funny.

It's all or nothing.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 24, 2016 7:42 pm

You sound like Juve havent already signed Pjanic, Pjaca, Alves...

what debate have you ever seen about worth that's interesting. fans debate whether or not their club should sign a players based off his price tag is the most pointless exercise i have ever seen. If your club has enough money to buy a player, you need to think about his added value, not the amount of euros he will cost. you are not running the accounting department, you are in front of the tv watching the game
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Post by Unique Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:25 pm

I think you have to think about how much a player costs if he is way over priced. if you pay 5-6 mill more than you should then it don't matter that much. but imo 60mil is plenty of money for pogba so double that and I think its a problem.
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Post by titosantill Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:42 pm

there are bigger things that fans can do without talking about than worth; i'm not going to list examples, just look in the right back thread and you'll be amazed. its summer, most debates will surround worth, and the performances of players as football seasons go on will see us revisit said topic. i can't talk about bale without bringing up worth- fabulous player but for what we paid for him, he needs to be on the pitch more, he played 30 games this past season. for the money he should be hitting cristiano type numbers in terms of games, and hell maybe goals too

when you hear rumors about people trying to sign morata for anywhere over 14 million dollars, not pounds nor euros, and you hear its in the line of 60 - 75 million, there is no way one cannot bring up worth in football. i've given my take on the higuain issue, a move like that i understand, still not worth it imo, but i totally understand it, and i explained why....but other moves; sterling, james, pastore, and many more like that, there's no way the worth talk will be phased out
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Post by Robespierre Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:40 pm

It depends on what team you are fan , not anyone supports Real Madrid that the money is basically infinite and an insane/mistaken expenditure doesn't prejudice the next moves.
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Post by The Demon of Carthage Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:47 pm

No, fans shouldn't stop talking about players' worth.

The market is inflated right now, and the clubs are paying exorbitant amounts of money because they're desperate to become successful again and join the elites at the top.

Us, fans, on the other hands aren't desperate and can easily say whether or not the player in question is worth their club's asking price.

We are not bankers, we are not looking to recoup the money or reinvest it, and we use common sense which is an ability innately instilled in every single one of us, and as opposed to clubs, we're not being pressured by our sponsors or our fan base or our status in world football to get this or that player.

Ronaldo to me is worth every penny we paid for him. The guy is a superstar, ballon d'or winner, champion of England, Europe and the world, and the undisputed best player in the world at the time. And he's a forward. Nobody blinked twice because we all knew he was worth it. And today when we look back at the transfer, the 94m we gave for him looks like peanuts now.

Pogba isn't worth 120m, no midfielder is, you can keep telling yourself he is while chanting the song "a player is worth what the bidder and the seller say he is", but he's not worth 120m. He's not even worth half that sum.

Gomes is not worth 50m.

Heck, even Morata is not worth 30m.

We are not paying the money ourselves; but even then, I wouldn't want my friend to pay Ferrari money for a Clio. And I'd make sure to point that out to them.
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:09 pm

But who are you to decide that Gomes is not worth 50 mil?

we are talking about footballers not cars. The parts that make up a Ferrarri are much more expensive than a Clio's, so by definition you can factually show that a Ferrarri is more expensive. it's not a matter of opinion.
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Post by farfan Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:11 pm

Fans of teams with deep pockets and  unlimited budgets should at least take it down a notch and worry a bit less about worth than others .

I mean it's a bit silly watching Chelsea fans patting themselves on the back because the team made a profit on a sale or lamenting over an excessive transfer fee . For teams like Lyon ,a couple millions could make or break our transfer window .
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Post by Jay29 Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:16 pm

When you say "so and so isn't worth x" though what are you comparing that value to? This is where discussing it can be annoying because people generally pull figures out that might sound right based on instinct but they're ultimately meaningless figures.

People say Pogba isn't worth 120mil but to Juventus he is worth that much and to Man Utd he is worth that much and that's really all that matters. United aren't going to go broke from paying that. And we can complain about inflation and knock-on effects on player valuations but it's all a concequence of clubs having more money to spend than ever. Selling clubs would be foolish not demand more for their players.

So I agree with Nick in that this shouldn't be a concern for fans - at least not for fans of the big clubs with huge turnover. I say this as someone who used to get hung up over what a players worth but have recently stopped caring as much because of how much money clubs have now. If I'm to question a transfer now it's purely on their ability and what they might bring to a team in comparison to other players, not on how much they cost or how much they're earning.

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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:18 pm

What does this have to do with someone being a fan of Torino vs a fan of Manchester United? there are no correlation

You guys act as if you actually impact the club signings with your comments all over the internet lol

If Aulas decides to spend 30 milions to sign Vitolo, there is not a single thing you can do about it. You can argue whether he will help or not, but if that's what your club is willing to pay then he is worth it.
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Post by Luca Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:21 pm

Mr Nick09 wrote:But who are you to decide that Gomes is not worth 50 mil?

we are talking about footballers not cars. The parts that make up a Ferrarri are much more expensive than a Clio's, so by definition you can factually show that a Ferrarri is more expensive. it's not a matter of opinion.


Here's the problem right here and we can actually dissect it
1) who are you? this is already an appeal to authority, I could be Christ Almighty or the Antichrist herself (your ex girlfriend if you live my life)

2) to decide- this implies like one saying, "player x is not worth y" is actually the one also making the purchase, similar to some poor sap at a shoe store picking up a pair, finding out the cost and putting them back down or proceeding to purchase them

Now the first is a far too common mistake as it is a known fact that registration to goal legacy certifies you as a finance expert and accountant, capable of collecting the GL tax or evading it when necessary.

The second, is the real problem here. There's a very significant difference between deciding the cost or discussing the value, thereby lending your own opinion as a fan. Is there anything wrong with saying 94M for Higuain is overpay? No because there are reasons we can provide, his age, his CL record, his lack of understanding with Messi, his stupid hair- really anything you want, as long as you can present it and you can also present the reasons for. Now lets look at Pogba's apparent 120M fee, great player, young, no release clause at a financially stable club. The other side, not worthy of a world record fee, too much hype for the cost.

The better question is why shouldn't we discuss the fee? Why not? I can't think of a good reason not to, its so relevant to the game. Not every team is equipped with limitless budgets, these transfers are what make or breaks teams and the list goes on, and on. The same way we say clubs overpay, we also commend them for doing great pieces of business (like signing Pirlo on a free, get in Marotta and Tom, sorry ES and fellow Miloan fans), the same reason we get a laugh out of a club paying 35M for Carroll (sorry Pool fans, its almost your year), and again, the list goes on.

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Post by Doc Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:32 pm

For the record, we are talking about the topic of talking about players' worth so even this thread is doing the opposite of what Nick is preaching. Not that I disagree, actually think the talk is a bit redundant sometimes but it is something to talk about and this is a forum so...why not.
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Post by chad4401 Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:37 pm

There is nothing wrong with saying what you think a player is worth, who cares what clubs think? Its business for them and a hobby for us, silly price is a silly price, just because the player you is one, doesn't mean the whole idea is waste of time suddenly, silly agenda driving threads Laughing
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Post by Mr Nick09 Sun Jul 24, 2016 10:44 pm

yes my agenda is to say that Benzema is not worth madrid, so to say that we need to sell him and sign Aguero. we have heard it all before Chadito, stfu and move on
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Post by CBarca Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:12 pm

I think we should make Nick an admin right away to be honest, that way he can start telling us what we can and can't talk about with some actual authority.

PS: Why does it matter if you're Torino or man u? Lol does anyone have the link to a Portsmouth forum?
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Post by zigra Sun Jul 24, 2016 11:16 pm

It seems to be the most pointless thing to discuss by far but who cares. If people have fun talking about it.. nothing wrong with it.
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