Too many perma banned users

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Post by Hapless_Hans Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:25 pm

@rwo power wrote:
@El Gunner wrote:I once created the "I dislike Mesut Ozil as a footballer" thread, now that's my own thread discussing Ozil's style of football and voicing my opinion, and I'd like to have that controversial title stay as it is. But a month or so later there was another thread opened about Ozil and then RWO decided to merge that one with mine, and it got re-titled to "The Mesut Ozil thread" or something like that. It's something small and I didn't make a big deal out of it, but I would just like to have my things stay the way that I created them. It's wasn't offensive or breaking the rules in anyway.
So you would prefer to have a dozen threads about basically the same subject that maybe have 5 or 6 or maybe a dozen posts and then get forgotten somewhere in the depths of the GenSec?

If the topics are merged you get one thread that stays accessible and actually gets more people to discuss the topic, which is the player and his style, and not some personal dislike which actually can't really be discussed as taste is not negotiable anyway.

After all, specific topics usually get turned into general discussions if the need is there, and then the original topic isn't appropriate anymore.

Or it is that you just are annoyed that you lost a point in the statistic that lists the number of threads that you opened?


I remember that instance, and I have to say I understand El Gunner's problem with what happened.
He made that thread with its title to make a statement and it provoked response.
El Gunner got heat for it, he defended it and maybe now he even doesn't feel 100% the same (maybe he dislikes Özil less now), but he would have liked to let that statement stand there as the thread title. I agree.
Don't think it's within the mods discretion whether an expression of 'personal dislike' is valuable enough to consitute a thread name.

At the same time what RWO does is invaluable, as off-topic meandering and multiple threads ultimately make the forum messy, confusing and unsearchable*/unaccountable.
Again, I come from a forum where threads would meander anywhere so that lengthy discussions about something else would happen in threads with a completely different topic.
While this too has a certain beauty to it, I do appreciate the tidy form on here.

So what RWO and the mods do in streamlining and cleaning up threads is integral, but there are instances where it might become overreaching. That's just natural.
So the "I dislike Özil" thing for me would be such an instance - and I would say the thing to do in such an instance is to simply pm the mod, ask about the thing and explain your position. Just communicate.

I think that's the most important thing to remember, we're all more or less grown up posters in a community, some of who take on extra work/responsibility as mods or admins.

This is not a citizen vs police/those up there vs us down here situation.
I get that sometimes it's fun to play a "I fought the law and the law won" role, the way RO is posting this is particularly tempting, but ultimately we're just people trying to exchange opinions and trying to get along doing so.

*edit: have to correct myself there. Even with tidy threads, this forum IS unsearchable. A functioning search would be my priority demand tbh. I used the google detour but this has stopped being useful as google also returns the site's 'last post' columns etc as hits and it's impossible to find anything anymore. Site-internal search doesn't provide ANYTHING, google searching the site is a needle in a haystack situation.

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Post by El Gunner Mon Oct 12, 2015 8:04 pm

Yeah, the google search is 9/10 worthless for me, not even talking about the search on the site.
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 13, 2015 8:46 am

@rwo power wrote:
@free_cat wrote:Can't you ban the IP for some months instead of perma-ban?
Many ISPs give out a new IP address everytime you connect to them, and banning the whole range of the provider would ban everybody going online by them.

Moreover, you might have heard about VPNs and Proxy servers ^^


So, how do you ban someone forever if it's not through IP?
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Post by RED Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:01 am

The mods in this forum are cool af imo. Very calm and lenient.

If you get perma-banned in this forum, it means you were a douche and deserved to get banned.
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:06 am

I think no one understands my "complain". I'm very fine with how the mods administer this site. I complain about perma-banning only. I really don't think anyone, or almost anyone should be perma-banned. It's a bit like the death penalty. They should get the chance to come back after a long ban. We wouldn't lose so many great characters forever. That's my point.
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Post by Lucifer Tue Oct 13, 2015 9:31 am

I dig ur point bro.u jst want more light punishments as perma banning keeps out interesting members and brings down forum activity. My point is u seem a guy who can take joke and wouldn't mind good hearted trolling but not all are as free hearted as u. The things which one finds funny or interesting may offend other. So the question is where to draw a line now that is pretty subjective for mods to separate. Regarding perma banning I think if ur not improving ur behavior after 4 warnings u are either hardwired that way or dnt take rules seriously both are not so good for any forum. If ur so called interesting posts are hurting or keeping people away its better for forum to be off without u. Imagine a new poster getting mocked would he continue to be active I dnt think so. Hence in nutshell what any forum requires predominantly is platform on which views of all posters however stupid they may be are respected. There can be no compromise with it.
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Post by free_cat Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:37 am

Also, this forum is dying. There's barely any activity this days...
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Post by Sri Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:34 pm

That's probably because of the international break, to be fair..

Besides, I logged in after 2-3 days and saw the Alexis Sanchez thread on GS had like 6 pages of posts! Hardly a sign of inactivity, no?

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:51 pm

@free_cat wrote:Also, this forum is dying. There's barely any activity this days...
always happens during the international break
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Post by Raptorgunner Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:15 pm

@rwo power wrote:
@RealGunner wrote:Nah, I prefer salad to be in the main box. It's a hassle to eat it separately. I think the combined taste of sauces and salad and Kebab creates a fantastic overall flavour.
RG is a true connoisseur of kebabs :bow:

Laughing
@Hapless_Hans wrote:Meh. Kebab is for newbies. Pros have long since moved on to Köfte.


rofl rofl
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Post by Kaladin Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:27 pm

Kofte? Kebab? lmao, its like you're going to a drug dealer and asking for cigarettes
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Post by Art Morte Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:17 pm

@Hapless_Hans wrote:
'Trolling' for me is the most contentious area where much is down to interpretation and male/benevolence of the mods.

I, like, totally agree.


My issue with banning posters for trolling is three-folded:

a) It's up to interpretation what is considered trolling and what an accepted level of provocation.

b) It raises conversation. Example:

Marko Arnautovic is a decent player who is on his way to have a slightly above-average top-flight career.

vs

Marko Arnautovic is better than Willian, Depay and Nasri.

No one would have a problem with the first thread. It would be lucky to get five replies.
The second thread might be considered trolling, but might also reach five pages.

I'm a level-headed, funny, insightful, interesting, compassionate and handsome poster, who would be totally cool with wearing a goalkeeper outfit in bed, and even I sometimes exaggerate my points, because I know that slightly provocative opinions are likelier to get a reaction.

c) Trolling only works if other posters let it work. It's not that difficult to simply ignore the most over-the-top posts, no? I think there should be a certain level of shared responsibility or whatever, an understanding that sometimes the poster who "bites" should know better than get all worked up by clearly overly provocative post.



So, personally I'm against banning people for "trolling", unless it's really obvious and repetitive. I can't say I remember too many perma-banned members' reasons for banning, but I think "trolling" has played a (big) part for many there.

Put it this way that if this forum was full of people like me, we would have some great conversations about whether Alexander Tettey has done a good job anchoring Norwich's midfield or whether his very limited ability is holding them back. But overall this would be a very monotonous and predictable place, apart from the nights when all of us were posting drunk.
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Post by Lucifer Tue Oct 13, 2015 4:21 pm

@Art Morte wrote:
@Hapless_Hans wrote:
'Trolling' for me is the most contentious area where much is down to interpretation and male/benevolence of the mods.

I, like, totally agree.


My issue with banning posters for trolling is three-folded:

a) It's up to interpretation what is considered trolling and what an accepted level of provocation.

b) It raises conversation. Example:

Marko Arnautovic is a decent player who is on his way to have a slightly above-average top-flight career.

vs

Marko Arnautovic is better than Willian, Depay and Nasri.

No one would have a problem with the first thread. It would be lucky to get five replies.
The second thread might be considered trolling, but might also reach five pages.

I'm a level-headed, funny, insightful, interesting, compassionate and handsome poster, who would be totally cool with wearing a goalkeeper outfit in bed, and even I sometimes exaggerate my points, because I know that slightly provocative opinions are likelier to get a reaction.

c) Trolling only works if other posters let it work. It's not that difficult to simply ignore the most over-the-top posts, no? I think there should be a certain level of shared responsibility or whatever, an understanding that sometimes the poster who "bites" should know better than get all worked up by clearly overly provocative post.



So, personally I'm against banning people for "trolling", unless it's really obvious and repetitive. I can't say I remember too many perma-banned members' reasons for banning, but I think "trolling" has played a (big) part for many there.

Put it this way that if this forum was full of people like me, we would have some great conversations about whether Alexander Tettey has done a good job anchoring Norwich's midfield or whether his very limited ability is holding them back. But overall this would be a very monotonous and predictable place, apart from the nights when all of us were posting drunk.
welcome Mourinho :coffee:
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Post by free_cat Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:45 am

So, no chance of a grace act?
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Post by VivaStPauli Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:19 pm

TBH after going through this thread, and reading the statement about "colorful characters"...

I don't know, even in the OP you mention Clockwork Orange who was racist as f*ck and Cyberman who never posted a single thing that wasn't a badly veiled attempt at trolling.

The others mentioned, too, had a tendency to instantly go ad hominem in any thread, which even I remember, and they mostly involved themselves in the tiresome Real v Barca discussions; and I'm with the Admins here.
If you get docked 25% for personal insults, then do that 3 more times to earn you a temp ban, and then think you can game the system through multi-accounting, you've deserved your perma ban, and since you can't stab someone on the internet, I'm pretty sure that's where it has to end.
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Post by free_cat Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:00 pm

Clockwork Orange a racist? I might have missed that. Konwing him, it was just a metaphor about pure cruyffist football and the rest.

Cyberman was just an entertaining troll, never bad-mouthed.

Also, I don't see why it's so infuriating that someone creates another account. I'm not bothered by that. Surely, it's much worse to make personal insults, and that's only a 25% downing instead of a permaban.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:51 pm

@free_cat wrote:Clockwork Orange a racist? I might have missed that. Konwing him, it was just a metaphor about pure cruyffist football and the rest.

Cyberman was just an entertaining troll, never bad-mouthed.

Also, I don't see why it's so infuriating that someone creates another account. I'm not bothered by that. Surely, it's much worse to make personal insults, and that's only a 25% downing instead of a permaban.


Multi-accounts is an instant ban on most forums. The reasons for this are obvious and have been detailed in this thread too.
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Post by Art Morte Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:51 pm

I also missed Clockword making any racist remarks, but then again I probably didn't read through all the threads he was involved in. But I thought he posted some decent stuff and was pretty knowledgeable about football. As for Cyberman, yes, he was biased and had a in-your-face style, but I had no problem with him.

I suppose you could say that Goal Legacy is a nicer place without all of the banned members - but also less interesting.
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Post by Hapless_Hans Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:55 pm

@Art Morte wrote:I also missed Clockword making any racist remarks, but then again I probably didn't read through all the threads he was involved in. But I thought he posted some decent stuff and was pretty knowledgeable about football. As for Cyberman, yes, he was biased and had a in-your-face style, but I had no problem with him.

I suppose you could say that Goal Legacy is a nicer place without all of the banned members - but also less interesting.


It's one thing to miss banned members, I do too, but then again the rules are clear and it actually takes quite some persistent effort, and inability to self-control, to actually get permabanned on here.
If you don't want to get banned, stop violating rules before you do.
I might want to abuse a few members now and then too, but I'm aware it carries a penalty, and if you're down on 25% after being temp banned a couple of times you should be aware you have to stop.

Just like Arturo Vidal fouls like a maniac UNTIL he gets a yellow, then he stops.
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Post by eziy Wed Oct 21, 2015 6:58 pm

seems activity was at its best at those times Smile  


Last edited by eziy on Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Art Morte Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:00 pm

@Hans

Yeah, well, that is a sound argument and I totally agree with it, it's not exactly difficult to avoid getting banned.

At the same time, however, I do think the authorities on GL are too harsh on so called trolling behaviour. But that's just me.
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Post by eziy Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:33 pm

I want to post here apologize once again. if you check all my posts (billionmillion) i never trolled or insulted anyone. it was personal issue with one of the admins. he banned me permanently for this.  at that time i didnt know about ban rules because before it was not strict like this, i didnt expect it. i think i dont deserve a permanent ban. unlike other banned users i accept my mistake and promise to respect all of the admins. it was 1 mistake and i learned from this. because i love this forum the reason for multi accounts was the love. i apologized many times, i forgot which admin it was so i apologized to all admins. if you take my ban from my original account i will be very thankfull
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Post by free_cat Thu Oct 22, 2015 9:07 am

See, poor billionmillion. Come on admins, grace act, one erasing of perma bans every time Barça wins the treble! Very Happy
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Post by RealGunner Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:10 pm

Just because you want the trolls back for your own personal enjoyment doesn't mean it's going to happen.

They are banned for a reason. If you can't understand that then there is nothing else we can do.




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Post by Guest Thu Oct 22, 2015 6:50 pm

While I have no pity for the banned, I feel this forum has become more lenient and moved in the direction of being more banter friendly. Which I'm not a huge fan of and a big reason I won't post as frequently. I personally felt there was a time year or so ago when this place had to make a decision which direction to head. But since they went in a more laid back direction, I do think it would be ok to bring some members back.

Perhaps I'm wrong since I don't even lurk as much as I used to. That is just my two cents.

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Post by Sri Thu Oct 22, 2015 7:15 pm

I like the forums now, tbh. There is some leniency towards good banter and no excessive trolling.

The latter was a big reason why I limited myself to the Arsenal section in the early years at this forum.

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