Re: UCL | 1/2 (1st Leg) | FC Barcelona vs FC Bayern Munich

by The Franchise Thu May 07, 2015 11:04 pm

messixaviesta wrote:I'll say something that likely won't be liked.

For a coach to become truly legendary he needs to achieve supreme glory with at least two teams. When I say two teams it could be a different club but it need not be. The other option is it has to be a different generation. Like Sir Alex Ferguson who built different generations of teams.

So in order to define his legacy more emphatically Pep must build a world beating team without Messi in it, even if it is at Barcelona ten years from now.

Some would say he won the league titles convincingly but I would use a line from Carlo Garganese to reply to that - "A Sunday league coach would have won those titles". He actually said that about Roberto Mancini at Inter Milan but I say the same about Pep at Bayern Munich.

The problem essentially is how many top quality teams has Pep beaten as Bayern manager. The short answer is none. Ever since Dortmund deteriorated Bundesliga is a one team league. So Pep rarely gets to face a top quality team. However 0 out of 3 is same as 0 out of 300 i.e. zero. Whats worse is that he didn't lose those matches close - his teams got hammered. Being hammered two years in a row is not what one would associate with a top quality coach.

I am 99% sure Pep is out of Bayern this summer and will largely be regarded as a failure. I agree with that thought. Also the number of takers for him will be much less now than two years ago. Things can change so fast with time that it's hard to believe. I mean recall Rijkaard when he won UCL 2005-06 and for the last several months have you even seen his name mentioned anywhere.

So would you say Sacchi is not a legendary coach?

I cant agree with your assertion simply because I cant equate winning to the degree you are. This is a game for the players, the players decide everything and the coach can put his players into a position to win and nothing more. That to me is the job of a coach, to put his players in a position to win...the best coaches do it in a special way and give the players that little extra chance, be it motivational, tactically or whichever.

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 12:07 am

Pep lacks defensive flexibility. He has all sorts of offensive ideas. Defensively he legit thinks the only way to defend is to have the ball and try to keep it in the opponent's half which he again said yesterday in the post match press conference. Which is a tactic that works wonders against inferior teams because inferior teams can be easily dominated but teams like Barca or Madrid can't be dominated in such fashion throughout 90 minutes. It's not possible. Unless they catch a veeery very bad day.

Pep trademark highline, brought to you since 2008.

Remember the stupid Arsenal comeback in 2011 when they launched counter after counter from the 70th minute onwards and scored 2 goals to come back from 0-1 to make it 2-1? Why not sit deeper and play more on the counter after taking the lead away from home? Like Barca yesterday after the 1-0 like every coach in the world would do (and you saw the result). Or against 10 men Chelsea when already 2-0 up? Let those scrubs come out and there will be space instead of trying to pass it around a 10 men wall.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Fri May 08, 2015 12:10 am

That's fine Futbol but that isn't the reason they lost lol.

In fact until Messi switched on god mode thanks to some misplaced passes from certain Bayern defenders it was really looking like a 0-0 and Barca were stifled once they made the formation switch to something more normal early on.

by The Franchise Fri May 08, 2015 12:14 am

Thats redicilous. He doesnt think thats the only way to defend, he thinks thats the best way. There is a big difference.

He could easily set up a team to play on the counter, any run of the mill coach can..he chooses not to because he thinks his way is better.

Its called philosphy and most coaches have them.

Yeah, you can play on the counter and drop the line back..but then you invite pressure and there is a bigger possibility of the opponent creating chances because they simply have the ball more. You think teams have never conceded a lead because they decided they should go on the defensive?

by The Franchise Fri May 08, 2015 12:27 am

Can I also say, your setting up a situation in which it is designed for you to be "right".

Your talking about specific way of defending in certain situations and then showing us times it failed, then making the conclusion its the wrong way.

But what about the very many more times it didnt fail?

When your dominating a team, attacking, shooting, everything, lose the ball, win it back immediately, attack again...why stop doing that and start giving them chances to play out and get at your defence? Why make the game difficult and lose control over it?

Like I said above, there are many times it doesnt work out.

Didnt Chelsea lead twice vs PSG? What did they do? Let PSG have the ball and get encouragement. Got eliminated.

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 12:33 am

If you put it like that. Any run off the mill coach can also put his defensive line around the center circle and make a world class squad like Bayern's crush a competition like Bundesliga with total offense football while getting undone against the very best at CL semi-final level. I think AVB can also achieve that. Which is obviously only half the truth but then again organizing counterattacking tactics is also not as simple as dropping back and mindlessly inviting pressure and getting lucky on the break. Getting the balance right it's what it's all about. Neither Pep nor Mourinho do that. One plays total offense, the other total defense. Jupp had the perfect balance and Barca this season also has a near perfect balance.

by Hapless_Hans Fri May 08, 2015 12:33 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:That's fine Futbol but that isn't the reason they lost lol.

In fact until Messi switched on god mode thanks to some misplaced passes from certain Bayern defenders it was really looking like a 0-0 and Barca were stifled once they made the formation switch to something more normal early on.

Exactly.

by Hapless_Hans Fri May 08, 2015 12:34 am

Fußball wrote:If you put it like that. Any run off the mill coach can also put his defensive line around the center circle and make a world class squad like Bayern's crush a competition like Bundesliga with total offense football while getting undone against the very best at CL semi-final level. I think AVB can also achieve that. Which is obviously only half the truth but then again organizing counterattacking tactics is also not as simple as dropping back and mindlessly inviting pressure and getting lucky on the break. Getting the balance right it's what it's all about. Neither Pep nor Mourinho do that. One plays total offense, the other total defense. Jupp had the perfect balance and Barca this season also has a near perfect balance.

That's the biggest pile of nonsense you've ever written tbh.

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 12:41 am

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:That's fine Futbol but that isn't the reason they lost lol.

In fact until Messi switched on god mode thanks to some misplaced passes from certain Bayern defenders it was really looking like a 0-0 and Barca were stifled once they made the formation switch to something more normal early on.

Yesterday Pep played with 7 defensive (minded) players + 1 CM: 2 CBs, 3 fullbacks, 2 defensive midfielders. On top of that the best GK in the world (who says if Suarez scores that 1 on 1 early on Bayern won't falter already in the first half like they did after the actual 1-0 and the flood gates won't open earlier?). Of course they stiffled Barca with that player material. And even though it was 0-0 for a long time it doesn't mean his tactics were right. A goalkick ending up in a 1 vs. 1 with Neuer? Great approach in a semi-final of the CL.

by Donuts Fri May 08, 2015 12:42 am

we can keep saying that it was going to be 0-0 until messi went god mode
but to be fair we could of easily scored 3 goals (without messi) if it weren't for bad misses / neuer god mode.

by Hapless_Hans Fri May 08, 2015 12:46 am

Fußball going into full 'Pep has no plan B' retard mode Laughing

I just wonder.. in order to hype whom? Coachessi? Or does Lurcho get some credit now ? Laughing

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 12:56 am

Plan B? His plan A is already flawed bruh. Laughing

by Hapless_Hans Fri May 08, 2015 1:00 am

Well fair enough. You've got Lurcho now though, who provides more balance.

For us, playing in a poverty league, Pep's plan A is good enough tbh.

So everybody can be happy hmm

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 1:06 am

Hmm. But I wanted to madig machen (can't be bothered to translate that) Pep for you so you grow tired of him quicker so he can come back to Barca. Why you not falling for it? Sad

J/k, we're winning CL away games now, whereas you don't. You can keep that scrub. :coffee:

Or am I?

by Hapless_Hans Fri May 08, 2015 1:07 am

Surely Bartomeu will win reelection with a treble and having assembled such a GOAT squad hmm

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 1:08 am

reported

by Hapless_Hans Fri May 08, 2015 1:10 am

Fußball wrote:Hmm. But I wanted to madig machen (can't be bothered to translate that) Pep for you so you grow tired of him quicker so he can come back to Barca. Why you not falling for it?

J/k, we're winning CL away games now, whereas you don't. You can keep that scrub.

Or am I?

The problem is that Viva's constant overkill has immunized me, you got to do a bit better to make Pep madig than that 'no balance' stuff

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 1:13 am

smh I will contact Viva soon and get some free lessons. Next Tuesday evening should be a good timing.

by Hapless_Hans Fri May 08, 2015 1:38 am

Bottom line in, pretending Pep's tactics are the reason for the defeat is misguided.
Yes, we played a high line at the Camp Nou, but guess what we pulled it off quite well.
And it's not like we didn't get 'spaces' to run at you too, we just didn't have the attacking quality and players to exploit the situations. And though this 0 shots on goal stat is being thrown around, Lewa missed an absolute sitter too.

And it's funny because you pretended like Bernat instead of Alaba would not be a quality difference..
Alaba may be only 22, but he's got huge experience at top level, which Bernat simply doesn't have, and neither Thiago.

One could see what that means very clearly.

Collectively, we were the better team for the better part of the game tbh.
Individually, we lacked quality, while you had Messi at his utter most unplayable.

Pep's subs though, that's another matter.

by windkick Fri May 08, 2015 1:39 am

Are people seriously doubting Pep?! Jesus...

by futbol Fri May 08, 2015 2:38 am

Hapless_Hans wrote:And it's funny because you pretended like Bernat instead of Alaba would not be a quality difference..

What? Me? Alexjanosik said that. I was just doing the usual anti-jinxing stuff. Laughing

I knew that he was a random run off the mill Valencia leftback and was hiding my laughter about alexjanosik hyping him up, knowing very well his dislike of Alba while Bernat is actually a worse leftback than Alba. Sorry if there was a misunderstanding. Laughing

Hapless_Hans wrote:Individually, we lacked quality

Well, get used to it then if Pep can't make it work without Robbery. Robben is 31, Ribery is 32. Both are made of glass, both will decline within the next 2 seasons. Unless you can get someone like Hazard which you can't, GOATze-Lewa-Müller is your starting attack very soon. Enjoy. :coffee:

by neuro11 Fri May 08, 2015 7:14 am

What can Pep do when he asked Rummenigge for Neymar only to get Gotze in reply Laughing

by Donuts Fri May 08, 2015 7:19 am

there is no shame in losing to barcelona in a semi final match..
hell the game is still not even over who knows maybe they'll win 4-0 at home.

too much criticizing pep for no real reason.

by free_cat Fri May 08, 2015 7:59 am

messixaviesta wrote:
eelir wrote:
I am so happy someone noticed that Iniesta is getting back to his old self. This is 2nd or 3rd game he is showing those glimpses. Let's hope he decided to up his game when we need it the most.

I am certainly pleased with the improvement and the words of praise from fellow Barca fans. However 'when we need it the most' may not apply any more. Due to the system in which we play and due to Messi now playing at a level which is even greater than his best levels of the past, Iniesta realistically cannot have much more than a functional role in this team. Nothing too bad about it. He is a true team player who'll do everything possible for the team. There are those beautiful memories to cherish forever. As for the future I think this summer neither Xavi nor Iniesta can leave because of the transfer ban. These guys are Barca thoroughbreds and cannot weaken the team at this point. Next summer Xavi could retire (or go off to play in MLS etc. for some time if he wants.) As for Iniesta I would like to see him at a lower profile club in another league where he can play as the team's most important player and bask in undivided adulation for two years or so, a bit like what Raul did at Schalke.

Another point I was wondering about today is that the arm band is Messi's to take whenever he wants. However it's possible that because of the kind of respect he has for Xavi and Iniesta, he won't ask for it until these two are there.

Finally a confession. I said last summer that I am not totally against considering the idea of selling Messi. It may seem utter madness but it was that Messi. This Messi can't even be sold for one billion euros.

Come on, Iniesta at Schalke or a second level club? If he leaves, he should go to a major club. He still has the quality and the legs to be a star and the focal point at almost every other Top club.

And he is playing so much better recently, very good game too vs Bayern from him.

by free_cat Fri May 08, 2015 8:06 am

I have to say that I agree that Guardiola lacks flexibiliy. He's the best, but sometimes he could be a bit more pragmatic. Especially against a 10 men Chelsea that you are winning 2-0... you should have switched immediately to a 4 man defence and play more cautious.

by The Franchise Fri May 08, 2015 11:46 am

Fußball wrote:If you put it like that. Any run off the mill coach can also put his defensive line around the center circle and make a world class squad like Bayern's crush a competition like Bundesliga with total offense football while getting undone against the very best at CL semi-final level. I think AVB can also achieve that. Which is obviously only half the truth but then again organizing counterattacking tactics is also not as simple as dropping back and mindlessly inviting pressure and getting lucky on the break. Getting the balance right it's what it's all about. Neither Pep nor Mourinho do that. One plays total offense, the other total defense. Jupp had the perfect balance and Barca this season also has a near perfect balance.

Jupp? Where was this perfect balance all these years before Bayern? Barca this season? Where was this perfect balance against Madrid? Get off it mate.

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