Re: The quality of football at the moment...

by Donuts Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:39 am

quality is the same honestly my assumption is your probably just getting tired of the hobby maybe give it a break and you'll regain your interest?

by fatman123 Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:47 am

Its been a while since GL went through a 'romanticising the past' phase

by rwo power Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:02 am

Fußball wrote:Meanwhile Bayern have conceded 4 goals halfway through the season. This doesn't speak for the quality of Bundesliga.

But it does speak for Manuel Neuer :coffee:

Actually, I love watching games as the GK play has become much more enterprising and sophisticated with time. Watching a sweeper keepers like Manu Neuer is simply fantastic, and at least in the Bundesliga, more keepers are striving to follow in Neuer's footsteps.

by chad4401 Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:35 am

fatman123 wrote:Its been a while since GL went through a 'romanticising the past' phase

yeah right ever since the dominate spell, most english analysis shows automatical act like the prem> for the most convoluted reasons and try to play down other leagues especially la liga, with the whole other than the big 2 argument, when the tactic and the footy is on a much higher level, anyway this isn't about league vs league, its about quality and the quality in the prem is nothing to write home about but keep counting the talent,

filipe luis playing much? why did you chelsea buy such a quality player to not play him? sounds like talent hoarding to me

by gnrfan Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:53 pm

Agree regarding the bpl..i look forward to these high billing matches(arsenal v chelsea, arsenal vs united) and the quality is usually garbge...otoh liga has some great teams quality despite the two horse label, last weeks valencia madid match being an example.

by Eman Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:01 pm

Some of you keep citing how 'predictable' and thus 'boring' football is now but when was it less predictable exactly? The top teams are losing to lower clubs more now than has been the case for decades in just about every league.

Teams are rising and falling all the time and every few years a team comes around that seems to change the way people think football is best played (most recent being switch from possession to the pressing game). Spurs, Dortmund, Atletico, Man Utd, Milan, Roma, Liverpool, PSG, Malaga, Monaco, and many other clubs have gone through massive shifts in quality in just the past few years.

It used to be far more predictable and you know it. I bet you find it more exciting to watch the top clubs just smash teams that don't know what they're doing.

by Jonathan28 Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:02 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:Yeah right

For someone who says can't be "bothered to watch garbage games" you do apparently still watch quite a lot of football since you know all about how shit "every league" is

Bruh, I watched a decent amount of football at the start of the season but it's now tapered off due to how shit games have been. I pretty much only tune in to watch Barca games now, even though I rarely watch the full 90 mins.

by Robespierre Sat Jan 10, 2015 5:49 pm

I don't know if it is just my sensation but I 've never seen so few goals as this year in Premier League

by Robespierre Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:03 pm

Anyway there is a problem of quality for me too.
This is a football era where there is not the Brazil, this is enough to explain the situation . Brazil was always the biggest container of quality players. Now Brazil has Fernandinho,Paulinho etc to create football. It can't be a real football without Brazil.

Anyway Brazil can be a simply matter of cycles . It happened to all to have a scrub period. Even Italy has it. But Italy indeed testifies the real current problem.

A problem who seems irreversible because it is not a matter of cycle but it looks like if we have taken a definitely turn for the worst .What I am talking about ? About the defenders. Even Italy historical country of great defenders is having this great problem.

The current defenders can't defender. It is because of academies . You don't learn to defend well as before anymore, now it looks like important to play the ball , being a quality players even if you are a defender and the marking almost as an optional.

Yes , David Luiz, I called you . The prototype of modern defenders. Well I preferred other as Walter Samuel.

Gary Neville wrote a very excellent analysis about it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11202272/Premier-League-football-is-witnessing-the-death-of-defending-as-I-knew-it-and-its-not-coming-back.html

by Vibe Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:11 pm

The tides in football have been changing for a while.

As for defending Robes is mentioning,football has moved on from more individual defending to more tactical defending,which results in death of world class defenders as we used to know them.

Another endangered species are wingers.They have been replaced by inside forwards,wide playmakers,wingbacks,hard working finishers...In the modern tactical game attributes like flair and dribbling are becoming obsolete.

It's been happening for a while and it's one of the main reasons I don't follow football as I used to.Other reasons are the increased influence of money and politics.I don't like where the game is heading,on the field or off it.

by Doc Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:41 pm

Very minor but I do miss those swashbuckling dribbling wingers being equally frustrating and devastating. Vibe knows where it's at. The flair and dribbling types are becoming fast obsolete.

With that outta the way, I still enjoy football the same way I enjoyed it when I was much younger. I don't get into the whole rivalry thing much and gotten to appreciate teams that I never was fond of before. I guess that comes with maturity and not so much with getting older.

As for the quality, it's still there but in a slightly different way. The technical level of teams has gotten really good but they sacrificed the defensive aspect of the game. Teams has truly started to focus on the "team" and not the "individual" though they can rid themselves of the concept of "building around x player". Most leagues are enjoyable in their own right but I always felt La Liga had the right mix of football I want.

by Thimmy Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:49 pm

All I know is that Mole has gotten surprisingly good at using commas in his texts. I'm lost for words Proud

Maybe the real Mole has been kidnapped? hmm

by rwo power Sat Jan 10, 2015 6:58 pm

Mole got a bag of commas as XMas present?

by Vibe Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:25 pm

I always liked how Mole never uses the ` but when he does he uses it where there shouldn't be one.

by The Franchise Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:31 pm

I dont enjoy football as much because the quality of football is lower? There could be some hint of truth in that statement but I still enjoy football very much and likely forever will.

I think for sure there is something in what is being said, I think alot of people make good points (I found myself agreeing with Futbol and Sport the most, I stopped reading midway through page 3 so forgive me on that) which make much sense and speak about individual teams which accurately.

But also this is a very "back in my day" moment...where some may think it was better back in "their" day while others who are feeling the more current situation think its just as good, if not better. Common argument which is not just football, but music and various other things.

Perhaps I missed some posts and therefore some clarification of points, but I dont see how there is an argument that the PL best teams arent worst..to me, this is rather obvious and didnt imagine it would be a sticking point to anyone. Someone can quote this part of my post if they want to set me straight on something maybe I missed.

But trying to stay focussed on the OP. I still watch roughly the same amount of football and enjoy it generally speaking...but I do get it, there are some significant problems with some of the best teams. I said at the time, it was incredible to me that Germany were able to play quite average for the majority of the tournament...basically they looked good for a combined 2 matches, and yet wont the whole thing. Things like that make you (or at least me) question the quality of the other teams...but I mean, it wasnt news to me that NT football is quite bad and I make a point of rarely watching it.

by CBarca Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:42 am

Did someone say get rid of the offside rule? No I agree, parking strikers up by the keepers for free 1v1's makes sense Laughing

by Ronaldo9 Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:13 am

the world cup was sad and boring it had some diamonds in the rough like James Rodriguez and gotze ,but overall still was quite lame no actual surprises. Germany was the only complete team since the beginning from back to center and attack also played better than any other team.
as for BPL and BBVA some ups but many downs and big teams like Barca and United are unstable while others are doing for the most time amazing like Chelsea and Ath. Madrid but as said above many athletes so few legends

by futbol Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:43 am

Just looking at the Premier League for instance you don't need to go as far back as "dem olden days" vs. 2015 or something. Just look at 2015 vs. a couple years ago. Around 2008 there were 3 English teams in the CL semis. One year later again 3 teams in the CL semis, this time Arsenal instead of Liverpool, so 4 English teams that were capable of reaching the last 4 of the CL around that time. Unthinkable as of 2015. Only Chelsea are expected to go that far now. Even the reigning English champions are far from reaching CL semis. Now Mole might say "it's just the top that got weaker, the smaller teams have become better". But is that really true or is it simply linked to the top teams doing worse that Southampton can compete with Arsenal for 4th place now?

I have watched a lot of Mule League this season. The fact that United are 3th sums up everything for me. Apart from dominating QPR I don't think they have done anything well this season. Neither offensively (6 shots total against Stoke City recently, the goal coming from a set play) nor defensively (De Gea saving their asses time and time again). Quality wise the worst Premier League season I have seen, no doubt about it.

by fatman123 Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:17 am

chad4401 wrote:
fatman123 wrote:Its been a while since GL went through a 'romanticising the past' phase

yeah right ever since the dominate spell, most english analysis shows automatical act like the prem> for the most convoluted reasons and try to play down other leagues especially la liga, with the whole other than the big 2 argument, when the tactic and the footy is on a much higher level, anyway this isn't about league vs league, its about quality and the quality in the prem is nothing to write home about but keep counting the talent,

filipe luis playing much? why did you chelsea buy such a quality player to not play him? sounds like talent hoarding to me

I dont understand why you quoted my post, your post has nothing to do with mine

by RealGunner Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:01 pm

Ronaldo9 wrote:the world cup was sad and boring it had some diamonds in the rough like James Rodriguez and gotze ,but overall still was quite lame no actual surprises. Germany was the only complete team since the beginning from back to center and attack also played better than any other team.
as for BPL and BBVA some ups but many downs and big teams like Barca and United are unstable while others are doing for the most time amazing like Chelsea and Ath. Madrid but as said above many athletes so few legends

Welcome

by VendettaRed07 Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:21 pm

I'd have to say mole is correct. The depth of quality is increasing across the top leagues considerably

The NBA went through the same thing. people asking where all the quality of the top NBA stars of the 90s went. It's because the leagues worst players are considerably better now than the leagues worst players several years ago.

by chad4401 Sun Jan 11, 2015 5:37 pm

oh my bad fatman, that was more to do with the thread than your post, i think i misread your post and quoted it too

by The Franchise Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:13 pm

VendettaRed07 wrote:I'd have to say mole is correct. The depth of quality is increasing across the top leagues considerably

The NBA went through the same thing. people asking where all the quality of the top NBA stars of the 90s went. It's because the leagues worst players are considerably better now than the leagues worst players several years ago.

How so? Can you elaborate on this?

by El Gunner Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:21 pm

Hapless_Hans wrote:
El Gunner wrote:
Fußball wrote:Entertainment vs. quality. Entertainment is still there (Spurs 5 - Chelsea 3). Quality not so much.

Italian football is at an all time low. When the best thing the big Milan clubs can get these days are Arsenal and Atletico rejects (Podolski, Cerci) and Gervinho is dominating the league you know what's up.

Bundesliga is a joke. Bayern is a great team but since Pep took over they have lost 2 games in 51. Both when they were already mathematically champions with weakened teams. Basically when they were still competing no one in the league beat them, even with all those injuries to Martinez, Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Lahm etc. I repeat, they are great but even prime Barca lost games and conceded goals from time to time as does Real Madrid right now who aren't worse than Bayern. Real Madrid under Ancelotti already lost 8 games in La Liga. Meanwhile Bayern have conceded 4 goals halfway through the season. This doesn't speak for the quality of Bundesliga.

Premier League has regressed. Liverpool, Manchester United, Arsenal. They are playing shit on a stick football throughout the season. It's unwatchable. Even this supposed invincible Chelsea side is prone to collapsing and conceding 5 goals to an average Spurs team. Solid team, typical Mourinho team tactically, far from a great team. Ivanovic, Cahill, Terry, Willian, Oscar, Cesc, Costa. Meh. Far from fearsome. Just the most organized team in the league. Doesn't hold a candle to the old school Chelsea teams in the mid 00s with prime Terry, Carvalho, Lampard, Makelele, Essien, Robben, Duff, Drogba ... City is a weird one. They have the players but they suck in Europe and aren't super solid defensively. Naive is probably the best word to use, pretty much like Real Madrid under Pellegrini when they won lots of games in the league with great football but somehow got their asses handed to them against Lyon in the CL R16 or in the Copa del Rey against Alcorcon.

La Liga: Barcelona is playing the worst football it has played in a decade. The forward line Messi, Neymar, Suarez is solving games on their own. Granted, it can solve A LOT of games on their own. As a TEAM however it is rather mediocre. Real Madrid and Atletico are at their best though so it makes it highly competitive at the top while Valencia, Sevilla and Vilarreal are all fighting it out for 4th place nicely. The gap between Barca and Sevilla halfway through the season is only 5 points and Sevilla has got a game in hand! I think in terms of competitiveness, prestige games (Clasico, Madrd derby), football quality, "shock" results (Barca 0 - Celta 1, Real Sociedad 4 - Real Madrid 2, Valencia 3 - Atletico 1 ...) and everything else considered it's by far the best package in the world.

Intl. footy has regressed the most. Germany is the only great, settled team right now in Europe but ancient Klose is still the best striker we have. Spain have the quality and potential without a shadow of doubt, remains to be seen if del Bosque can build a great unit until Euro 2016. France is also a good team. But that's that. I remember around 2000: Zidane's France, Figo's Portugal, a great Italy team, entertaining Spain team that lacked the winning mentality and luck but played proper football, a great Dutch team with Kluivert, Bergkamp, Staam, van der Sar, Cocu, Seedorf, Overmars, de Boer. Man, even Turkey had their best ever team around that time.

TL;DR: Watch La Liga.

Suprisingly enough this post makes sense in a way.

No it doesn't. It is hyperbole which doesn't really hold up to close scrutiny.

It's no surprise that a PL and Man Utd fan would bemoan the terrible demise of football as a whole, but it is still easy to see through kneejerk tbh.
Because, yes, the PL top clubs are worse than say 8 years ago. Doesn't mean it's worse than 20 years ago, or that all football is worse.

Typical case of people thinking the world revolves around them.
They get older and less excitable and less relevant, and that means that everything was better in the good old days.

And to claim that the Bundesliga is a joke NOW compared to earlier, if we're talking about FOOTBALL QUALITY, is frankly nothing short of ridiculous.
I've been watching Bayern for a long time, and we had strong no nonsense teams in the past, but if we want to talk about 'quality of football' lol, there's never been a better Bayern in any comparable past (the 70s are not comparable). Period.

That's also the reason why we lose so few games in a league that has hugely improved, not because the league is 'a joke'.

A joke is Barca fans, who probably 5 years ago when Pepcelona was in prime would have argued football quality is at an all time high in history, now seeing it fit to argue all football is bad, since they are worse than they were.

That the decline of traditional powerhouses like the Italian league leaves a dent is undeniable, but that of course is due to them not developing the way other leagues have developed, so to argue football as a whole is in demise is just nonsense, there are different cycles involved is all.

And that's why I said makes sense "in a way"
Ignoring the hyperboles, the basis which Fussball stemmed his post upon is accountable.

by El Gunner Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:33 pm

Robespierre wrote:Anyway there is a problem of quality for me too.
This is a football era where there is not the Brazil, this is enough to explain the situation . Brazil was always the biggest container of quality players. Now Brazil has Fernandinho,Paulinho etc to create football. It can't be a real football without Brazil.

Anyway Brazil can be a simply matter of cycles . It happened to all to have a scrub period. Even Italy has it. But Italy indeed testifies the real current problem.

A problem who seems irreversible because it is not a matter of cycle but it looks like if we have taken a definitely turn for the worst .What I am talking about ? About the defenders. Even Italy historical country of great defenders is having this great problem.

The current defenders can't defender. It is because of academies . You don't learn to defend well as before anymore, now it looks like important to play the ball , being a quality players even if you are a defender and the marking almost as an optional.

Yes , David Luiz, I called you . The prototype of modern defenders. Well I preferred other as Walter Samuel.

Gary Neville wrote a very excellent analysis about it

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11202272/Premier-League-football-is-witnessing-the-death-of-defending-as-I-knew-it-and-its-not-coming-back.html

Is everyone just going to let this slide?

WTF does this even mean? You're saying just because Brazil has been shit and hasn't produced major WC quality (mind you they've been poor since the end of '02) it automatically speaks for itself that the quality of football has dropped?

by sportsczy Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:48 pm

well, he has a point. The "beautiful game" style of play that the Dutch adapted and now Barca all started with how Brazil played.... the notion that everyone, including defenders, need to be technical and capable of scoring goals and contributing to the attack. All the tricks and dribbling techniques you see today were invented by Brazilian players.

It's like playing Samba music without Brazil being a major contributor... it lacks imagination.

But i want to expand it beyond just Brazil: The erosion of the youth academies in South America in general and the falling levels of the pro leagues there are the main reasons that football lacks diversity. European clubs are poaching kids at such a young age that all the players are "Europeanized"... everyone is the same.

I remember when Careca, Maradona, Romario, Bebeto, etc. came to Europe in the 80s... they brought an entirely new way. It was fantastic. Who's going to bring novelty to European and world football today?

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