I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent

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Post by LeBéninois Thu Sep 25, 2014 11:08 pm

Does this thread even has a point ?

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Post by CBarca Fri Sep 26, 2014 12:28 am

Dnmac4 wrote:
CBarca wrote:Like your posts?


OK, so why don't you show me a quote of mine about Jack Wilshere that would classify me as insane?

Let's look at some quotes from you about Jack Wilshere from one single post:

"He's an amazing dribbler. One of the best in the EPL- for a midfielder" (Laughable) -CBarca

He's also a great passer- among the best in Arsenal easily, and he's certainly part of the top bracket for passing midfielders -(Pure insanity) -CBarca

He doesn't give the ball away cheaply (this one made my stomach hurt I laughed so hard) -CBarca


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Post by VendettaRed07 Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:15 am

.


Last edited by VendettaRed07 on Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Donuts Fri Sep 26, 2014 1:37 am

if you disagree with him why not actually debate.. if you don't think he's worth your time why don't you just not respond?
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Post by TalkingReckless Fri Sep 26, 2014 6:45 am

Donuts wrote:if you disagree with him why not actually debate.. if you don't think he's worth your time why don't you just not respond?


People have had pages and pages worth of debates with him....
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Post by boyzis Fri Sep 26, 2014 2:49 pm

i think what dmnac is arguing is that arsenal suffer because of jack wilshere in their side which is wrong as arsenal dont suffer because of him its because of wengar Very Happy

Anyways arsenal is the best
wilshere is the best
wilshere is the best in the world
wilshere is the best in the whole wide world
Very Happy



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Post by Dnmac4 Fri Sep 26, 2014 3:50 pm

Bénin wrote:Does this thread even has a point  ?


Again, it was moved to a single page from the "I don't like Mesut Ozil" thread or what ever it was called for some reason.  

I'm pretty sure I know why it was moved as I'm more surprised my posts weren't just deleted as have been done in the past but that's a whole other issue I know were banned from talking about.

Again, everything I have said on this thread has been in conjunction to Mesut Ozil and why he is being scapegoated when he's played better in an Arsenal, Germany, Madrid etc shirt than other English midfielders (Wilshere) who have been poor for years on end who seem to escape the scapegoat threads and media bashing's.

Anything not "on-topic" was in defense to someone who either made a personal remark or went off-topic first.  

How this is some separate thread now is really confusing and frankly makes me wonder if we are actually allowed to have a civil discussion on this board about Arsenal's midfield (which is actually immensely talented but getting steamrolled by lesser units) with out being insulted or pretending like Jack Wilshere is above reproach.  

I mean no one really has anything constructive to argue on why he should start over Ozil or Cazorla in the CM role or how it's very obvious his insertion in the lineup is costing a lot of other players to not play at there best and in context not get the best out of there midfield.  To anyone who knows anything about football this is very obvious.  He has no track record of sustained success when players like Cazorla, Ozil and Ramsey who is being insulted by Arsenal fans for some reason now have shown the quality to thrive in that role.

It's an overcrowded midfield and there has to be an odd man out.  It's really obvious who that person should be.  And yes I have always liked Cazorla a lot as a player and taken up for him and will continue to do so.  I told Premfaces and like 75% of Arsenal fans when they bought him "HE IS NOT A WINGER when everyone thought he was.  Therefore yes it bothers me when ever Arsenal fans talk about there midfield they always suggest putting Cazorla out wide so Jack can start.

It's total nonsense, yet no Arsenal fan ever seems to be bothered that there best lineup is not being put out on the field.  I guess it's the culture of low expectations which has taken over the club and the fans where they would rather watch an average English player play and them draw or lose games they should be playing better in than start there best players.
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Post by Raptorgunner Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:36 pm

stop putting the same stupid comment re-worded on every post!!
Not many want to respond your post because not many take your serious and you talking about Arsenal fans belonging in looney bin? by now you should know Arsenal fans like you get under you skin, its so easy. Laughing  rofl

I think it’d be a completely different story had Jack stayed injury free. He’s never been the same since his injury and being English didn't help at all. He’s shown signs of greatness and desire, but not enough consistency I agree and this is Wenger fault imo. I think far too often we judge footballers purely on their potential abilities rather than all the other factors involved.
I think Jack was hyped up too much maybe it got to him. He needs to show maturity this coming season and step up to the plate!
Is not easy starting for Arsenal and have the whole England watching your every move.

If you have been watching all our games this season you would see Jack has been on of the best players at Arsenal, while Santi, Ozil and Ramsey have been shocking.

If it was the other way around and Santi was English and Jack was Spanish you would be attacking Santi and not Jack, so its really hard to understand why you hate Arsenal and Jack so much.

Should Jack be starting for Arsenal? its a mixed feeling Our midfield should consist of Ramsey, Walcott, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla,
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Post by Dnmac4 Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:18 am

Raptorgunner wrote:stop putting the same stupid comment re-worded on every post!!
Not many want to respond your post because not many take your serious and you talking about Arsenal fans belonging in looney bin? by now you should know Arsenal fans like you get under you skin, its so easy. Laughing  rofl

I think it’d be a completely different story had Jack stayed injury free. He’s never been the same since his injury and being English didn't help at all. He’s shown signs of greatness and desire, but not enough consistency I agree and this is Wenger fault imo. I think far too often we judge footballers purely on their potential abilities rather than all the other factors involved.
I think Jack was hyped up too much maybe it got to him. He needs to show maturity this coming season and step up to the plate!
Is not easy starting for Arsenal and have the whole England watching your every move.

If you have been watching all our games this season you would see Jack has been on of the best players at Arsenal, while Santi, Ozil and Ramsey have been shocking.

If it was the other way around and Santi was English and Jack was Spanish you would be attacking Santi and not Jack, so its really hard to understand why you hate Arsenal and Jack so much.

Should Jack be starting for Arsenal? its a mixed feeling Our midfield should consist of Ramsey, Walcott, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla,


Well thanks for actually staying on topic. I don't agree though. If Santi was English I wouldn't treat him any differently.

I treat players on production not on the English media machine.  Santi has actually produced in his career.  In fact Santi has been a better player before he got to Arsenal and after he's been there he's been better then Jack even being stuck out on the wing WHERE HE DOESN'T belong.

Check his tape at Malaga where he was spectacular and even at Arsenal when he was a starter (I have no clue why he doesn't start anymore) with 12 goals and 11 assists in the EPL alone one year. (Jack could never achieve that)

I mean I have said from day one I love Ox as a player and you can go back and find threads where I've said every game Ox doesn't start with Walcott out Wenger should be fired.  

I don't hate English players, I rate Walcott, Lampard, I really like Milner's game and wish he hadn't gone and taken a pay day so I could see him play more, I like Terry etc.

I mean please find me somewhere that I'm bashing English players.  I bash the National team but that's fair game, they suck.  I took all sorts of shots for saying they would be lucky to get a point in the World Cup, and was right.  They are extremely overrated and have some of the worst chemistry I've ever seen not to mention the EPL is a tough physical league to play in but the English national team is soft as warm butter for some reason.

I've claimed that Madrid, Barca, Bayern would win the EPL pretty much every year pretty easily, I don't think that's unreasonable they have better players and are way more consistent (we will see about Chelsea this year).  But that's not because of English players, hell your English teams don't want English players.

And finally I have been extremely complimentary of Arsenal this year.  I've said on here if played right they have a fantastic midfield, there is no reason they should be where they are now or being taken apart by Dortmond like that.  They have A BETTER midfield than Dortmond, they shouldn't being getting completely overrun.  They should't be extremely lucky to get passed Besiktas.  

They shouldn't need Ramsey to save them from being near the bottom of the table against sides like Palace.  And that's another thing, be careful what you say about Ramsey the guy has a talent that your precious Jack doesn't, he's a match winner.  He can play bad and still decide the outcome of a match and save you points.  When Jack plays bad he is awful and destroys your midfield and is out of position all the time.

And BTW Jack has been injured, yes but Arsenal are always injured. RVP who was a true WC player came back and was spectacular when fit.  So you can say it's stunted his career but it needs to stop being a crutch for the guy. There is plenty of enough film of him being healthy to know what kind of player he is.

And BTW, give me a F'ing break with the English media and he has high expectations.  That's everyone.  Rooney has handled them same with Gerrard, Lampard etc it's all part of the deal.  That is no excuse what so ever, and the Arsenal fans didn't do him any favors anointing him a World class player when he had accomplished nothing.  IF you're going to blame the media, blame yourself.
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Post by Dnmac4 Sun Sep 28, 2014 2:31 am

"He’s never been the same since his injury and being English didn't help at all." -Raptorgunner

This is false.  Him being English has kept him in the team.  There is no other reason.  Had he been Carlos Vela he'd have been shipped out by now.  He starts over better players for the sole fact he's English.

If he wasn't English who knows what team he's be loaned out to by now.

Wenger keeps him around because for some reason he's a fan favorite which I don't understand.  I'm a Barca fan and the two clubs are run somewhat similarly.  Bojan was a bigger talent then Wilshere when young but when he didn't perform up to expectations he was on the bench and then gone.

As fans we didn't sit around asking for our Catalan prodigy to be forced into the team at the expense of other players nor did we tell people they just hate Catalan/Spanish players when they took shots at him.

Again, it's a culture of low expectations that have overcome Arsenal fans where if they win the fourth place trophy, make a decent cup run, get out of the group stages of the CL, and get to watch there English players play then there happy and everyone else is seen as haters.
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Post by Flick Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:05 am

Dnmac4 wrote:"He’s never been the same since his injury and being English didn't help at all." -Raptorgunner

This is false.  Him being English has kept him in the team.  There is no other reason.  Had he been Carlos Vela he'd have been shipped out by now.  He starts over better players for the sole fact he's English.

If he wasn't English who knows what team he's be loaned out to by now.

Wenger keeps him around because for some reason he's a fan favorite which I don't understand.  I'm a Barca fan and the two clubs are run somewhat similarly.  Bojan was a bigger talent then Wilshere when young but when he didn't perform up to expectations he was on the bench and then gone.

As fans we didn't sit around asking for our Catalan prodigy to be forced into the team at the expense of other players nor did we tell people they just hate Catalan/Spanish players when they took shots at him.

Again, it's a culture of low expectations that have overcome Arsenal fans where if they win the fourth place trophy, make a decent cup run, get out of the group stages of the CL, and get to watch there English players play then there happy and everyone else is seen as haters.


Uh Wilshere being english has nothing to do with him being on the team at all. He's a talented player while I don't hold him to high esteem as most Arsenal fans. I believe that he will be quality. He needs to be loaned out to get playing time honestly but, the lack of depth on Arsenal's midfield for the B2B position at Arsenal is really lacking. Arsenal has technically only 2 with Ramsey and Wilshere and 3 if you count Arteta which I don't. He's getting inconsistent playing time and he needs to be playing consistently to be consistent. At the very moment he's a poor mans Iniesta. He has the same qualities as Iniesta but he doesn't execute them like Iniesta. His footballing IQ is actually mediocre from the games I've seen but if he can improve on that he'll be one of the best MFs in the world.

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Post by Raptorgunner Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:21 am

Dnmac4 wrote:"He’s never been the same since his injury and being English didn't help at all." -Raptorgunner

This is false.  Him being English has kept him in the team.  There is no other reason.  Had he been Carlos Vela he'd have been shipped out by now.  He starts over better players for the sole fact he's English.


I disagree, I think Jack has done enough to show his value to Arsenal, unlike Vela who did not fight for his place. I was a huge Vela fan and I didn't think he had in him to make it at Arsenal and am happy he is doing great in La Liga.

Again Jack should be coming off the bench or rotate with Ramsey. Our midfield connects better with Ozil and Cazorla instead of Jack and Ramsey. The problem with Jack is the our manager, Jack would have been much better player than he is  under a right manager. Wenger plays the wrong players and plays players in the wrong positions.
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:22 am

Flick wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:"He’s never been the same since his injury and being English didn't help at all." -Raptorgunner

This is false.  Him being English has kept him in the team.  There is no other reason.  Had he been Carlos Vela he'd have been shipped out by now.  He starts over better players for the sole fact he's English.

If he wasn't English who knows what team he's be loaned out to by now.

Wenger keeps him around because for some reason he's a fan favorite which I don't understand.  I'm a Barca fan and the two clubs are run somewhat similarly.  Bojan was a bigger talent then Wilshere when young but when he didn't perform up to expectations he was on the bench and then gone.

As fans we didn't sit around asking for our Catalan prodigy to be forced into the team at the expense of other players nor did we tell people they just hate Catalan/Spanish players when they took shots at him.

Again, it's a culture of low expectations that have overcome Arsenal fans where if they win the fourth place trophy, make a decent cup run, get out of the group stages of the CL, and get to watch there English players play then there happy and everyone else is seen as haters.


Uh Wilshere being english has nothing to do with him being on the team at all. He's a talented player while I don't hold him to high esteem as most Arsenal fans. I believe that he will be quality. He needs to be loaned out to get playing time honestly but, the lack of depth on Arsenal's midfield for the B2B position at Arsenal is really lacking. Arsenal has technically only 2 with Ramsey and Wilshere and 3 if you count Arteta which I don't. He's getting inconsistent playing time and he needs to be playing consistently to be consistent. At the very moment he's a poor mans Iniesta. He has the same qualities as Iniesta but he doesn't execute them like Iniesta. His footballing IQ is actually mediocre from the games I've seen but if he can improve on that he'll be one of the best MFs in the world.

Uh dude, I think your confusing positions.  Jack and Ramsey don't play the same position as Arteta.  

Yes, Arteta and Flamini are Arsenal's DM's not particularly good ones although Arteta used to be quality when played in the right position even though he is painfully slow.  Yes Arsenal need a DM badly but that's not Jack or Ramsey.

Arsenal have an absolute gluttony of Central Midfielders and players who can play in an Iniesta type role the difference being they ALL want to drift centrally where Iniesta is one of the most tactically flexible players I have ever seen.  And you being an Arsenal fan I appreciate the fact that you prefaced your statement but please no more Arsenal fans putting Wilshere and Iniesta's name in the same sentence there not even in the same universe.

So no it's not Ramsey and Wilshere as the box to box players it's Cazorla, Ozil, Wilshere, Ramsey and Rosicky.

And frankly I know Arsenal have there usual injury problems but they actually have great width with Ox and Walcott so if they were both healthy there CM issue would be even more of an issue seeing as Wenger wouldn't be able to shoehorn as many into the squad and they would have more of there better players sitting on the bench.

And loaned out to get playing time?  The guy plays pretty much every game when when fit.  I do agree though if he weren't English he wouldn't be on the team anymore he would have been loaned out or sold.

Also, just stop it.  If it walks like a duck, quack's like a duck, it'as a freaking duck.  Jack is what he is.  He has a million hours of film to watch and issues with the feel of the game, positional sense, finishing/providing in the final third and giving the ball away/being wasteful etc.

He is never going to be the best CM in the world or anywhere close to it, so please just stop.
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:24 am

Raptorgunner wrote:
Dnmac4 wrote:"He’s never been the same since his injury and being English didn't help at all." -Raptorgunner

This is false.  Him being English has kept him in the team.  There is no other reason.  Had he been Carlos Vela he'd have been shipped out by now.  He starts over better players for the sole fact he's English.


I disagree, I think Jack has done enough to show his value to Arsenal, unlike Vela who did not fight for his place. I was a huge Vela fan and I didn't think he had in him to make it at Arsenal and am happy he is doing great in La Liga.

Again Jack should be coming off the bench or rotate with Ramsey. Our midfield connects better with Ozil and Cazorla instead of Jack and Ramsey. The problem with Jack is the our manager, Jack would have been much better player than he is  under a right manager. Wenger plays the wrong players and plays players in the wrong positions.


I can agree with this. I don't think other managers unless it were on a lesser team with lesser aspirations would give Jack as much rope as Wenger but if he were a squad player I would have no issues there.
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Post by 1991 Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:23 pm

You should have no issue then, he's been a squad player for pretty much his entire career Laughing

11 was the break through year, 11/12 he was injured, 12/13 he was rotated and last year he was benched by Ramsey.

Bu-bu-but ''The guy plays pretty much every game when when fit'', ye, from the bench  :brickwall:
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Post by nasir6371 Mon Sep 29, 2014 6:02 pm

1 Epic thread Dnmac :bow:
2) If you don’t have anything to contribute or provide criticism please don't spam the thread with "Why is this thread here/the point/ or a single Freaking Period symbol"

My Views:
Jack has had a meh stop-and-go career so far due to injuries because of his fragile body and playing style. The constant dribbling at defenders when: 1) he can't ride tackle from defenders (like Messi, Aguero, and other smaller players do) 2) doesn't possess the skilled enough to side step and escape from challenges. So due to these limitation he should rely on another tactics besides dribbling into dead ends. He reminds me of Nasri playing CM but stead of consent un-threatening side passes it’s un-threatening dribbling.

I dislike the hype, he is an average player at his current CM position. Nor do I feel he has enough vision/intelligence to be a threat at CAM.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Sep 29, 2014 8:20 pm

nasir6371 wrote:1 Epic thread Dnmac :bow:
2) If you don’t have anything to contribute or provide criticism please don't spam the thread with "Why is this thread here/the point/ or a single Freaking Period symbol"

My Views:
Jack has had a meh stop-and-go career so far due to injuries because of his fragile body and playing style. The constant dribbling at defenders when: 1) he can't ride tackle from defenders (like Messi, Aguero, and other smaller players do) 2) doesn't possess the skilled enough to side step and escape from challenges. So due to these limitation he should rely on another tactics besides dribbling into dead ends. He reminds me of Nasri playing CM but stead of consent un-threatening side passes it’s un-threatening dribbling.

I dislike the hype, he is an average player at his current CM position. Nor do I feel he has enough vision/intelligence to be a threat at CAM.


That's absolute garbage

He has been our best midfielder this season in terms of performances. Anyone who watches Arsenal would tell you he is nearly back to his best and playing like he used to pre-injury days. Only ignorant haters would disagree due to their massive egos.

He does tend to over-dribble but that's his game. His best attribute is dribbling in tight spaces and carrying the ball like Iniesta does but the only time he can't do it properly was when he lost his decisiveness and the stop-start periods but when he was fit for about 12 matches last year, he once again started performing excellently and was our best player around March time. He was the reason we actually won the FA Cup at the end when he came off the bench.

He has incredible amount of skill in him. I can show you multiple compilations when he has used his skill to evade pressure and defenders. You can question his consistency but you can't question his technique and skill. I watch Arsenal and I watch him every time he plays. That's stupid to say he doesn't possess skill. He is one of the most skilful players in the league.

Lol at average player. And I find it funny how you can say he has no vision when he destroyed City just weeks ago with his vision and intelligence lol.


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Post by farfan Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:34 pm

is it just me or are most of this Dnmac4 guy's long boring posts reek of douchebagness?
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Post by Pedram Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:26 pm

LMAO who edited the title ? Laughing
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Post by nasir6371 Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:39 pm

Meh, we will see this week if he performance against top opposition Galatasaray & Chelsea. If he does than I would gladly eat Crow. No

I am not nor should a Dnmac be butthurt about Wilshere. It's just amused with English media hyping him up while a SUPERIOR player gets his selection for the NT team question in Milner :facepalm:
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Post by DuringTheWar Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:51 pm

nasir6371 wrote:Meh, we will see this week if he performance against top opposition


Agreed, he still has to prove himself against the top teams. Destroying Manchester city is one thing, but galatasaray is a far bigger test.
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Post by RealGunner Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:09 pm

Doubt he will play since he picked up a knock against Spurs(sigh)

And if he does(no other option atm) it will be through injections and he will be out for 2 months after that Rolling Eyes
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Post by Dnmac4 Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:31 pm

RealGunner wrote:
nasir6371 wrote:1 Epic thread Dnmac :bow:
2) If you don’t have anything to contribute or provide criticism please don't spam the thread with "Why is this thread here/the point/ or a single Freaking Period symbol"

My Views:
Jack has had a meh stop-and-go career so far due to injuries because of his fragile body and playing style. The constant dribbling at defenders when: 1) he can't ride tackle from defenders (like Messi, Aguero, and other smaller players do) 2) doesn't possess the skilled enough to side step and escape from challenges. So due to these limitation he should rely on another tactics besides dribbling into dead ends. He reminds me of Nasri playing CM but stead of consent un-threatening side passes it’s un-threatening dribbling.

I dislike the hype, he is an average player at his current CM position. Nor do I feel he has enough vision/intelligence to be a threat at CAM.


That's absolute garbage

He has been our best midfielder this season in terms of performances. Anyone who watches Arsenal would tell you he is nearly back to his best and playing like he used to pre-injury days. Only ignorant haters would disagree due to their massive egos.

He does tend to over-dribble but that's his game. His best attribute is dribbling in tight spaces and carrying the ball like Iniesta does but the only time he can't do it properly was when he lost his decisiveness and the stop-start periods but when he was fit for about 12 matches last year, he once again started performing excellently and was our best player around March time. He was the reason we actually won the FA Cup at the end when he came off the bench.

He has incredible amount of skill in him. I can show you multiple compilations when he has used his skill to evade pressure and defenders. You can question his consistency but you can't question his technique and skill. I watch Arsenal and I watch him every time he plays. That's stupid to say he doesn't possess skill. He is one of the most skilful players in the league.

Lol at average player. And I find it funny how you can say he has no vision when he destroyed City just weeks ago with his vision and intelligence lol.




You have some real stunning quotes about Jack Wilshere and how good he is and more importantly who he's better than so I'm not surprised you're up to it again.  I'm not going to go back and grab them as anyone can do it.

STOP, please STOP comparing him to Iniesta.  What is wrong with some of you.  His game doesn't mirror Iniesta's in the least bit.  Not at all.  Not even close.

And for this,

"He is one of the most skilful players in the league. "

At what?  He can't finish, he doesn't assist the ball, his distribution is decent but no where near the top of any major league, he makes rash tackles, every time he goes on one of his "trademark" runs (what there trademarked for I don't know) he is totally out of position basically inviting a counter attack and he doesn't link play like  an elite midfielder.

So please tell me how he is one of the most skillfull players in the league.  I mean is this a joke?

And this is what pisses me off it couldn't have come at a better time.  You can speak to rational Arsenal fans and then you get this contingent that compare him to Iniesta, say he's there best midfielder this year and one of the most Skillfull players in the EPL.

And have you ever given any though to the fact that he is playing the position this year everyone want's to play in and most of there goals have come when he subbed out or not in the game?  If you took Arsenal's record this year by the scoreline when Jack's in the game they would be near the middle to bottom of the table.  You say "you watch all the games" look at the game logs.

How many goals did they score against spurs with him in the game?  They were tied with Palace until he left, losing to Everton (BAD) unitl he left, Destroyed by Dortmond with him in the lineup, 0-0 with Besiktas with hiim in the lineup, Lost to Southampton with him in the lineup etc.  Aston Villa he didn't start and they put 3 in.

I mean can you really sit there and ignore that?  Did you ever think how your team would be playing had the correct players been played from the start of the game or in the correct position from the start?  I bet you think it's all a big coincidence.  

And yes he earned them a draw against City.  He has to have a good game every now and again and any player can look great in one game and he looked great that game, credit where credit's due.  But it's way too inconsistent where Iniesta is so spectacularly consistent it's insane.  So again, DON'T COMPARE THEM.  They are nothing alike.
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I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent - Page 2 Empty Re: I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent

Post by Peccadillo Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:13 am

wilshere touches dnmac non-consensually in his dreams
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I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent - Page 2 Empty Re: I am butthurt by Wilshere's talent

Post by Dnmac4 Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:43 am

Peccadillo wrote:wilshere touches dnmac non-consensually in his dreams


Jeez, you really brought down the house with that one. Don't quit your day job.

And LOL at the title of the thread.

It's pretty obvious who did it and I'm more surprised that person isn't going back and erasing threads or comments of his that are insane like before.

Or joining threads and cutting out the parts that make him look like a fool.

I mean it must make him feel good to erase everywhere he gets owned. Big internet tough guy.

Whatever helps you sleep at night, and you know who you are.
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Post by Dnmac4 Tue Sep 30, 2014 3:45 am

And no, I'm not talking about you Peccadillo. At least not the second part.
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