Why are Portugal bad and Argentina great?

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Why are Portugal bad and Argentina great? Empty Why are Portugal bad and Argentina great?

Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:14 pm

Was reading the now locked Ronaldo 2 goals thread.

Something i really don't understand is how Portugal are some how a bad team yet Argentina are great....

Portugal's back 4 and midfield is miles betters than Argentina's its not even funny, yes their forwards apart from Ronaldo are crap but despite common consensus from GL who has also brought us such classics like "City have the best squad in the PL by a mile and Chelsea's squad is crap Mourinho is a hero" A team does not just exist of forwards.

The whole team has to be taken into consideration.... Pepe, Alves, Coentrao and Moutinho would walk into the Argentina team blind folded..... but i suppose that doesn't matter because they are not scoring goals.  Rolling Eyes 

Both Portugal and Argentina are great teams and if Messi or/and Ronaldo don't do what is expected of them they have flopped as hard as anyone.

Simple as.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:32 pm

Because people look at Portugal from ronaldos perspective and see he has very little help that's going to make his game easier. And people look at Argentina from messis perspective and they see the pace and skill of di maria, aguero and higuin as making messis game easier
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Post by neuro11 Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:38 pm

Why are Portugal bad and Argentina great?
Because it is said by Cr fans.... They need to keep him happy. Otherwise he would say again "I am sad" Sad 
soemone even argued Garay and Zabaleta top class Farnandez is ok and Rojo is promising  rofl 
Thats the way they look at it. now that Cr failed, only way to raise him is failing Messi as well and protraying that he was in a Great Argentina Team where Cr played for scrubs:lol:

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Post by BeautifulGame Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:40 pm

How is Portugal defense is miles better than Argentina?

Both have one very good full back  in Contrao and Zabaletta. Garay is comfortably better than Alves and the other fullback is very poor for both teams . Only difference seems to the quality of Pepe but they are screened by Mascherano a great DM compared with Velaso.

Hardly miles better both are average at best with Portugal slightly better.

I doubt anyone would argue Moutinho is a better than Di maria and don't see much diff BTW Miereles and Gago.
And Argentina attack is miles ahead of Portugal so of course Argentina as a team are much better than Portugal
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Post by futbol Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:45 pm

Argentina's midfield is underrated. Mascherano was possibly the best midfield destroyer in the world before Barca turned him into a centerback. Gago is functional enough and has always performed very well for Argentina. Di Maria excelled - I repeat - EXCELLED in AM for Real Madrid this season. Surely people haven't missed how he was raping Barca in the 4-3 Clasico and his performance in the CL final? Grit, speed, hard work, dribbling ... Only Germany and Spain have clearly better midfield options, possibly Italy as well but that doesn't mean much anyway because depending on style you don't necessarily need Pirlo in midfield to advance the ball to the forwards.

Defense still gets a lot of stick because of Maradona's lack of ... well, lack of being a coach - and it ain't perfect but again it's functional enough. Their problem was never the personnel. It was lack of structure which Sabella has given them. Garay is linked with all sort of big clubs, Zabaleta is one of the most solid rightbacks in the Mule League and FF and Rojo do a job. They didn't even call up the likes of Fazio and Mussachio. I actually fail to see which team has a big advantage in that area. Certainly not Spain with jokesters like Pique, Ramos and semi-retired Casillas in there. Italy and Germany possibly and even then they ain't got Nestas and Maldinis in there.

Upfront it's not even a debate. Laughing

All in all Argentina is a top 5 team in the tournament easily. So if Messi performs he can take that team to the semis minimum, considering also their easy route until that point.

Can't speak for Portugal due to my lack of interest for that team. Usually they have a solid defense and okay midfield but almost no creativity apart from Moutinho and Ronaldo is basically on his own in the final third. I'd expect quarters max. Don't know their possible route though. Who do they face in the R16 if they finish 2nd in the group?

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Post by BeautifulGame Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:57 pm

@fusball

If Portugal finish 2nd they will face Belgium in R16 and Argentinal in QF . If both Belgium and Are top their groups
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Post by Footyfan Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:04 pm

Fußball wrote:Argentina's midfield is underrated. Mascherano was possibly the best midfield destroyer in the world before Barca turned him into a centerback. Gago is functional enough and has always performed very well for Argentina. Di Maria excelled - I repeat - EXCELLED in AM for Real Madrid this season. Surely people haven't missed how he was raping Barca in the 4-3 Clasico and his performance in the CL final? Grit, speed, hard work, dribbling ... Only Germany and Spain have clearly better midfield options, possibly Italy as well but that doesn't mean much anyway because depending on style you don't necessarily need Pirlo in midfield to advance the ball to the forwards.

Defense still gets a lot of stick because of Maradona's lack of ... well, lack of being a coach - and it ain't perfect but again it's functional enough. Their problem was never the personnel. It was lack of structure which Sabella has given them. Garay is linked with all sort of big clubs, Zabaleta is one of the most solid rightbacks in the Mule League and FF and Rojo do a job. They didn't even call up the likes of Fazio and Mussachio. I actually fail to see which team has a big advantage in that area. Certainly not Spain with jokesters like Pique, Ramos and semi-retired Casillas in there. Italy and Germany possibly and even then they ain't got Nestas and Maldinis in there.

Upfront it's not even a debate. Laughing

All in all Argentina is a top 5 team in the tournament easily. So if Messi performs he can take that team to the semis minimum, considering also their easy route until that point.

Can't speak for Portugal due to my lack of interest for that team. Usually they have a solid defense and okay midfield but almost no creativity apart from Moutinho and Ronaldo is basically on his own in the final third. I'd expect quarters max. Don't know their possible route though. Who do they face in the R16 if they finish 2nd in the group?


I have seen both Garay & Zabeleta and rate Zaba highly and Garay IMO is also a very good defender. Portugal also have 2 good defenders in Coentrao and Pepe.

But IMO Garay is better than Pepe who is a nutcase and Zabaleta is better than Coentrao. The rest are pretty average in both teams. There is not much difference in quality.

Midifield - Moutinho is a top CM IMO. Rest aren't too good. I thought Masch was the best guy vs Bosnia. He was a top DM and still is. Di Maria played phenomenally at AM. Gago is an average CM like Mereiles. IMO Argentina has 2 Top Players but Portugal 1.

Attack - Portugal has Ronaldo and a washed up Nani who I thought was a huge joke last night not even having the confidence to shoot.

Argentina have Messi, Aguero, Higgy & Palacio. Best attack in the world.

Argentina IMO have the 4th best team after Spain, Germany & Brazil. Yes maybe they don't have a WC LB, CB to partner Garay & or a Top CM to partner DiMaria & Masch. But they have solid really good team.

Oranje did amazing with the weakest Dutch squad in history reliant of RVP/Robben duo upfront. Argentina have the squad to win the tournament if Messi/Aguero/Di Maria provide World Class performances. At the worst IMO they have the team to overtake Italy, Netherlands, Belgium and notch a Semi-final appearance.

Look the team is not perfect but with Messi, Kun, Di Maria you expect them to do magic and score 2-3 goals to outscore a top team and do miracles.

Portugal IMO are a Round of 16 to Quarter final team if Nani,Pepe, Mereiles sort it out. If Ronaldo had Di Maria, Aguero & Higauin in his team I would have been more confident about Portugal.

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Post by The Franchise Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:08 pm

Portugal dont have a personale problem, they have a philosophical one.

They play far too much of the game inside their own half or out on the wings. For years, I have not seen a Portuguese side consistently play in between the lines or camp teams inside their own half for extended periods.
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Post by farfan Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:54 pm

where is this world class portuguese midfield that i keep hearing about ? meireles is washed up and slightly above average at best , veloso is just not good enough ..... moutinho is the only one who can play ball in that midfield and he's just coming off a terrible season with monaco.
world class defense ? what happened to pepe being a nutcase and a shitty defender ?
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Post by commando Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:25 pm

Out of curiosity, had Germany gone down by 1 goal via a soft penalty and then had to play with 10 men for a large part of the match, do any of you think Ronaldo would not have had a goal fest with people opining that Portugal are favorites to win it all?

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Post by sportsczy Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:32 pm

Argentina has more talented players.  Mascherano and Di Maria are good midfielders to compensate for Gago.  Zabaleta and Garay are good defenders.  The attack is the best in the world in terms of individualities.

Portugal has a very poor midfield save Moutinho... and Moutinho got his arse handed to him in Ligue 1 this season.  So i don't really rate him that highly anymore.  The defense and keeping are experienced and solid.  Patricio; Coentrao, Alves, Pepe, Pereira is a good keeper/back 4 combo.  The individual players are more than acceptable.  The issue is that, as always, the play is geared too much towards one player.

Argentina and Portugal both suffer from wanting to cater to their superstar player too much.  Unfortunately for them, the superstar player is a "me, me, me" player.  So if that player is not at his best, the whole team goes down the toilet.  Too bad since the teams talent are good imo.
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Post by Adit Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:46 pm

Is this even a question?

CR has to link up with Almeida to score a goal..he wont even start for second division clubs.

Nani,Almeida,Meireles,Veloso,Pereira,Bruno Alves all are shet players and that is majority of the squad Laughing

Argentina if Gago is fit has only a shet CB and Shet LB and thats it. 2 players. Wont even get me started on their abundance of forward option.
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Post by farfan Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:51 pm

i'm just reading that locked thread and harmonica is back  Laughing 

last time i saw him here he was having a nervous breakdown after madrid's decima win and made 4 threads whining about ronaldo's celebration Laughing
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:52 pm

@DuringTheWar wrote:Because people look at Portugal from ronaldos perspective and see he has very little help that's going to make his game easier. And people look at Argentina from messis perspective and they see the pace and skill of di maria, aguero and higuin as making messis game easier


Yeah and a much superior back 4 and a midfield which is able to control the game much easier doesn't help Ronaldo  Rolling Eyes 

People surely can't be that dense.

Also to answer the other posts yes Portugal's defense is miles better Laughing Garay is one of the most overrated defenders going and only Zabaleta would get into their starting line up and even then he wouldn't much difference.

Moutinho is miles better than Gago as the playmaker of the side.

Farfan learn to read, its quite a key skill in life i think you're find. No one ever used the words " world class".

Argentina's front 4 is more talented but that's it, the rest of the team is less talented than Portugal.

But its not about who is more talented, its about understanding why people consider Argentina a favourite and Portugal an average side without Ronaldo in it when in reality through out the eleven its a very competitive team with Argentina.

People overrate forwards when discussing teams/squads.
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Post by farfan Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:10 pm

moutinho is one of the most overrated players in the world .

he didn't " playmake " shit this season at monaco.
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Post by Gil Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:31 pm

Where is the idea Portugal have a great midfield coming from? The only above average midfielder in that team is Moutinho and like Farfan alluded to he's coming off a shit season. He isn't that much better than Gago in reality.

3 World Class players, one above average one and one off the bench isn't really a team. Romero, Mascherano, Gago, Garay, Aguero, Di Maria, Higuain & Zabaleta would all walk into Portugal's team.


And doesn't even include backup options like Lavezzi, Palacio. Lamela, Pastore, Tevez, Banega, Iturbe etc
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Post by farfan Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:38 pm

is ricky alvarez in the squad ? he's a better playmaker than any portuguese player.
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Post by urbaNRoots Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:59 pm

Portugal are bad because aside from a few individuals the rest of the team is really poor, combined with a not so great coach who can't get them overperform in certain matches as evindenced by Portugal's struggles in the qualifiers and their performance against Germany.

Argentina on the other hand are a better team because of Sabella, they seemed to play very well in the qualifiers and have better individuals too. Their attack alone can carry this team into the semifinal atleast and with a bit of Messi magic the final too. Portugal are not close to that level.
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Post by Higuain09 Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:52 pm

Portugal''s defense is better no doubt. They can park the bust they are professional at it. Argentina defenders dont know how to park the bus
Portugal's midfield is better. Argentina have no midfield. If Argentina had Moutinho Messi would get 10 through balls every game. Di Maria is not a midfielder he is a winger, Gago is not a midfielder he is more like defensive midfielder. Argentina have nobody to feed the forwards with through balls. If they had proper midfielders Messi would not play in midfield.

About attack, Nani is on the same level with Higuain. Yes they both do nothing, but Nani does a little more with his runs

Most importantly Argentina are individuals, no understanding, no harmony. They are just good players at their own. They can make a childish mistake in defense, it happened 3 times against Bosnia. Portugal defense rarely will make childish mistake. Not because of great individuals, but because they are professional at their work. They dont make dribblings in defense, they dont make flashy back passes in defense. Argentina players are too light headed

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Post by urbaNRoots Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:58 pm

^Has it been that long since Portugal played Germany? Laughing
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Post by Higuain09 Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:08 pm

Germany scored 4 goals vs Argentina too. But difference was that Portugal defense was playing 1 man less.
This means 3 man portugal defense=4 man argentina defense

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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:22 pm

Neither Argentina is great nor Portugal sucks. Portugal are actually ahead of Argentina in the FIFA rankings which speaks to their good recent form. People just talk in extremes in the aftermath of matches but are usually much more reasonable a few days later.

In any case they are likely to play against each other if Argentina finish first and Portugal second in their respective groups.
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Post by DuringTheWar Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:42 pm

@Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
@DuringTheWar wrote:Because people look at Portugal from ronaldos perspective and see he has very little help that's going to make his game easier. And people look at Argentina from messis perspective and they see the pace and skill of di maria, aguero and higuin as making messis game easier


Yeah and a much superior back 4 and a midfield which is able to control the game much easier doesn't help Ronaldo  Rolling Eyes 

People surely can't be that dense.

.


A good defensive back 4 can help the team win but I'm not seeing how it has anything to do with how ronaldo is able to get into the game.

From what I've seen ronaldo gets very isolated and literally no player ever will not struggle to some degree in isolation. With the players messi has moving around him he certainly won't be isolated.
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Post by Lord Awesome Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:08 pm

Portugal have Ronaldo who is labeled as "the bad guy" and Portugal only have 2-4 figures in the team. Argentina have Messi & "proper football players" with a star forward line and some well known players at the back. Namely Zabaleta & Mascherano.

At least that's what most of the world thinks anyway.
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Post by Harmonica Tue Jun 17, 2014 7:20 pm

Because most football related people are nonsensical and biased. Portugal has more overall quality and it's miles more complete team than Argentina. Portugal is FIFA #4 and not because of Fakenaldo, he was awful in the qualifiers. Argentina is FIFA #5 and mostly because of Messi, best player in qualifiers.

Which itself makes Messi's performance even better, compared Fakenaldo here.
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