Re: Guardian's World Cup top 100 Footballers of all time

by VendettaRed07 Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:15 am

Why does anyone try and make a top 100 list of anything ? Too many to ever be even remotely accurate

by CBarca Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:24 am

Have C.Ronaldo and Messi done anything in the World Cup? I can't remember.

by Valkyrja Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:41 am

Xavi is too high in comparasion to Iniesta imo. Messi and Ronaldo have no place there

by rwo power Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:45 am

VendettaRed07 wrote:Why does anyone try and make a top 100 list of anything ? Too many to ever be even remotely accurate

That. (E.g. I see Oliver Kahn as 42 and Gigi Buffon as 44 there - but frankly, I couldn't say whom I could put higher than the other as Kahn may have won the Golden Ball in 2002, but Gigi managed to lead his team to the World Cup win. Which is "better"?) And why should Sepp Maier be worse than those two?

When even there it is difficult to say that X is definitely better than Y, how impossible is it to properly compare GKs / defenders / midfielders / attackers?

by BarcaLearning Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:16 pm

Huh, I thought Messi should be amongst the top 5 at least? Or top 10???!! 51. Another crap list...would expect better from The Guardian Sleep

by rwo power Wed Jun 04, 2014 3:28 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Huh, I thought Messi should be amongst the top 5 at least? Or top 10???!! 51. Another crap list...would expect better from The Guardian

This is supposed to be the "World Cup Top 100". And while the list is indeed questionable in the first place, it is even more so by including Messi at all. What has Messi achieved so far in the World Cups he played in? Okay, he did manage to score one goal against the might of Serbia and Montenegro in 2006... ^^

by messixaviesta Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:33 pm

Valkyrja wrote:Xavi is too high in comparasion to Iniesta imo. Messi and Ronaldo have no place there

Agree completely

by Tomwin Lannister Wed Jun 04, 2014 8:40 pm

BarcaLearning wrote:Huh, I thought Messi should be amongst the top 5 at least? Or top 10???!! 51. Another crap list...would expect better from The Guardian

Guardian's World Cup top 100 Footballers of all time - Page 2 Wat-if-i-told-you-wat

by Lord Spencer Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:13 pm

I think all this list manages to do is unify all people of some football knowledge against it Laughing

Seriously, this list is just pure Bull.

by RealGunner Wed Jun 04, 2014 11:15 pm

Tomwin Lannister wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:Huh, I thought Messi should be amongst the top 5 at least? Or top 10???!! 51. Another crap list...would expect better from The Guardian

looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool

by BarcaLearning Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:29 am

rwo power wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:Huh, I thought Messi should be amongst the top 5 at least? Or top 10???!! 51. Another crap list...would expect better from The Guardian
This is supposed to be the "World Cup Top 100". And while the list is indeed questionable in the first place, it is even more so by including Messi at all. What has Messi achieved so far in the World Cups he played in? Okay, he did manage to score one goal against the might of Serbia and Montenegro in 2006... ^^

Oops, missed the WC part obviously Razz

But I think ppl underrate Messi still in the WC. He played VERY well in the last WC. Argentina was a mess tactically, individually he performed to his best, cant really ask for more. He hit the bar/post like 3-4 times iirc, setup at least 3-4 goals for his teamamtes, etc.

by titosantill Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:15 am

david villa should be somewhere on this list...somehow, what that guy did for his team has been super undervalued. he was spain's best player in 06 despite being removed way too early from games for some reason. In 2010, whilst others where concerned with ball possession, he was actually key in the final third and was a threat when galloping down the left hand side of the pitch....if he had played most of his career in real madrid or barcelona, i bet many would consider him spain's best player in recent time....i'd put romario and rivaldo ahead of xavi as well....but to be honest this kind of list (especially one this long) makes little to no sense; it sort of devalues what others may have brought to the team....the last time one man completely dominated the mundial was in 1986, since then, there have been moments of genius by certain players, but it has still hinged largely upon team effort, so its tough to make such call or list....and frankly, i'm getting tired of such lists in footy these days

by M99 Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:02 am

BarcaLearning wrote:
rwo power wrote:
BarcaLearning wrote:Huh, I thought Messi should be amongst the top 5 at least? Or top 10???!! 51. Another crap list...would expect better from The Guardian
This is supposed to be the "World Cup Top 100". And while the list is indeed questionable in the first place, it is even more so by including Messi at all. What has Messi achieved so far in the World Cups he played in? Okay, he did manage to score one goal against the might of Serbia and Montenegro in 2006... ^^

Oops, missed the WC part obviously But I think ppl underrate Messi still in the WC. He played VERY well in the last WC. Argentina was a mess tactically, individually he performed to his best, cant really ask for more. He hit the bar/post like 3-4 times iirc, setup at least 3-4 goals for his teamamtes, etc.

So you think Messi deserves to be on this list?

by rwo power Thu Jun 05, 2014 10:19 am

BarcaLearning wrote:Oops, missed the WC part obviously :PBut I think ppl underrate Messi still in the WC. He played VERY well in the last WC. Argentina was a mess tactically, individually he performed to his best, cant really ask for more. He hit the bar/post like 3-4 times iirc, setup at least 3-4 goals for his teamamtes, etc.

Funnily Messi is there ranked 51 and you want him included for 3 or 4 assists, while 14 times World Cup goal scorer Miro Klose isn't listed at all. You really think Messi deserves to be there more than Klose? (That weird choice is one of the pecularities of the list, btw).

by nichabr Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:45 pm

No Pirlo

by Robespierre Thu Jun 05, 2014 1:58 pm

great post , I will wirte often here. first considerations : Maldini is a God the main reason about this place is because he played 5 WCs ..but I think that place should belong to Meazza (40th lol ) and I don't say because he was an Inter star but the is the star of 2 World Cup won ( and won 4 totally) ,it's difficult to find a dominant player as him for Italy

What has Del Piero to do with it ? he is a Juve legend , but he was bascially a ghost with the national team , in France 98 was embarrassing , in 2002 he scored just one goal totally useless, in 2006 was not even a starter although there was Totti injured Laughing

but Lippi , the juventino Lippi and his former manager, preferred equally Totti to Del Piero

And Baggio ? he missed the penalty with Brazil today, but he had a Maradona 86-esque impact in that World Cup, we were knocking out from Nigeria if he didn't score ... and Spain .. and Bulgaria. Unreal Amaazing also in Italy 90 (what a goal against Cecoslovaccia) and 1998 ( he created goals)

Cannavaro deserves a better position probablly , not only in 2006 , he also played an unreal world 98 , he and Bergomi (rightly mentioned ) were the best against France (we arrived to penalty kicks for the defence), Cannavaro expecially played all the match with bloody bandage on head ( Paul Ince-esque against Italy ) because Guivarc'h gave him a nudge
I do not like as man , but I admit that his performance in the national team has always been very high , already before 2006 (98 and 2000).

the National Team is basically the context where he gave definitely his best, although he was inferior to other Italian defenders as Nesta or Maldini on paper

by messixaviesta Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:58 pm

nichabr wrote:No Pirlo

Yes Pirlo and Klose are probably the worst misses.

by messixaviesta Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:00 pm

Robespierre wrote:
What has Del Piero to do with it ? he is a Juve legend , but he was bascially a ghost with the national team , in France 98 was embarrassing , in 2002 he scored just one goal totally useless, in 2006 was not even a starter although there was Totti injured :lol:but Lippi , the juventino Lippi and his former manager, preferred equally Totti to Del Piero

Spot on. He has absolutely no place here. I thought of saying it but then decided that there is no end to the number of faults we can find with this list.

by titosantill Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:50 pm

for the record robespierre, maldini played in four world cups....but i agree him and baggio should be higher up. despite the missed penalty, baggio was practically the only offensive threat for italy in 94...you want to talk about scoring when it matters; he didn't score in the group stage, but all his 5 goals came in the knockout rounds; 2 in the last 16, 1 in the quarters and 2 in the semis....he was also hardly ever at a 100 percent during that world cup....italy had no business being in the final, donadoni was passed his best by then, but baggio came up with moments of brilliance when it mattered. he had a good world cup in 1990 as well

by messixaviesta Fri Jun 06, 2014 6:34 pm

titosantill wrote:italy had no business being in the final, but baggio came up with moments of brilliance when it mattered

Agree completely with that. Italy in 1994 was like a repeat of Argentina in 1990.

by Robespierre Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:43 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
titosantill wrote:italy had no business being in the final, but baggio came up with moments of brilliance when it mattered

Agree completely with that. Italy in 1994 was like a repeat of Argentina in 1990.

Agreed .
Baggiodependencia.
The only difference , Italy was probably the best team in Brazil 94 on paper ( and this makes worse all . Personally infact I rate Sacchi as a disappointment in NT ,I remind also Euro96 , not at Milan levels ) , while Argentina 90 not

titosantill wrote:for the record robespierre, maldini played in four world cups....but i agree him and baggio should be higher up. despite the missed penalty, baggio was practically the only offensive threat for italy in 94...you want to talk about scoring when it matters; he didn't score in the group stage, but all his 5 goals came in the knockout rounds; 2 in the last 16, 1 in the quarters and 2 in the semis....he was also hardly ever at a 100 percent during that world cup....italy had no business being in the final, donadoni was passed his best by then, but baggio came up with moments of brilliance when it mattered. he had a good world cup in 1990 as well

yes 4 not 5 , you agree Very Happy

in 1982 there was Baresi , not Maldini , I confused him with Franco Very Happy

4 as Bergomi , this is another reason because Bergomi was included, Bergomi won it in 1982 (he played also in final ) and he played in 1986,1990 ( Captain in WC played in his country ) , in 1998
if Sacchi called him in 1994 , but Sacchi preferred the " Milanista block" , Bergomi would have played 5 World Cups in a row.

by Robespierre Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:47 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
What has Del Piero to do with it ? he is a Juve legend , but he was bascially a ghost with the national team , in France 98 was embarrassing , in 2002 he scored just one goal totally useless, in 2006 was not even a starter although there was Totti injured :lol:but Lippi , the juventino Lippi and his former manager, preferred equally Totti to Del Piero

Spot on. He has absolutely no place here. I thought of saying it but then decided that there is no end to the number of faults we can find with this list.

there are at least 100 Italy players who deserve to be mentioned more than Del Piero (personally the biggest disappointment seen in NT if compared to results in his club. Di Natale was a bomber in "provinciale" clubs so not so surprising)

For example, I don't understand because there is not Bruno Conti in that list

Absolutely Unreal in Spain 82.

Probably the best player in that World Cup won by Italy, more than Paolo Rossi who was a ghost in group stage.

by messixaviesta Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:21 pm

Robespierre wrote:
Agreed .
Baggiodependencia.
The only difference , Italy was probably the best team in Brazil 94 on paper ( and this makes worse all . Personally infact I rate Sacchi as a disappointment in NT ,I remind also Euro96 , not at Milan levels ) , while Argentina 90 not

Was it? I always thought Brazil and Argentina were the favourites before WC 1994.

by Robespierre Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:30 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
Robespierre wrote:
Agreed .
Baggiodependencia.
The only difference , Italy was probably the best team in Brazil 94 on paper ( and this makes worse all . Personally infact I rate Sacchi as a disappointment in NT ,I remind also Euro96 , not at Milan levels ) , while Argentina 90 not

Was it? I always thought Brazil and Argentina were the favourites before WC 1994.

Argentina94 was better than 90 , the additions of Redondo,Simeone , Batistuta were outstanding, although Maradona was to end of career

Brazil had an unreal CF as Romario but for the rest it was the "worst" Brazil to have won the cup.
It played with Serie A flops as Mazinho and Dunga

I haven't direct memories about that WC but I know the most ppl in Italy believed to be favored to win it

on the other hand the frame of that Italy was the Milan 1994 who destroyed for 4-0 the Barcelona coached by Cruijff in Champions League final ,so it was not an unmotivated opionion .
And it had also an important bench . (for example this is the reason because Italy got kocked by Euro96 to group stage, Sacchi played the 2nd matches with reserves because we had important names also as benchers, we didn't call up even Baggio . .. that was a golden moment for the Italian football)

by Zizou Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:35 pm

rwo power wrote:
Zealous wrote:Pretty sure Lothar voted against his fellow Germans so he could be the highest rated among them lol.

Didn't work. He didn't get past Kaiser Franz

but how does he rank higher than Gerd Müller????!??? seriously?

by Robespierre Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:40 pm

Zizou wrote:
rwo power wrote:
Zealous wrote:Pretty sure Lothar voted against his fellow Germans so he could be the highest rated among them lol.

Didn't work. He didn't get past Kaiser Franz

but how does he rank higher than Gerd Müller????!??? seriously?

I think it is normal to rate Beckenbauer as the best German player ever.
He was unreal already to England 1966 when he was 21 .

I suppose the rank for Germans is 1)Beckenbauer 2)Muller 3) Matthaus
Anyways, Matthaus is God :coffee:

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