Re: Should he win it?

by jibers Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:59 pm

TBH I don't blame Messi. Tata has taken the team away from him. Xavi is playing further away from the final thirds which is just *bleep* stupid in itself. Its an error Rijkaard rectified immediately he became Barcelona manager and Pep pushed him further forward. Messi was played wide which means his influence was zilch because he could not see the ball. I blame Martino for his lacklustre tactical decisions before I blame the players. No diagonal runs from wingers to even worry atletis defence. Pathetic display from a tactical stand point. It's obvious that Messi was sulking tbh because he didn't get to play in the centre and the team was taken away from him, but I don't blame him. I'm starting to think Tata is worse that Tito tbh.

by The Franchise Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:04 pm

I do blame him. All that can be 100% right but it dont matter, he is a professional...your supposed to give your all regardless if you like some decisions the coach makes or not.

Sulking dont do anything, and it especially doesnt do anything when your playing in a CL knock out game.

As crap as Tata may or may not be, as a player your on the pitch and you deicide what happens. Many players have played out of position and had perceived rights taken from them by a tactical decision...they still give their all.

by jibers Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:11 pm

The Franchise wrote:I do blame him. All that can be 100% right but it dont matter, he is a professional...your supposed to give your all regardless if you like some decisions the coach makes or not.

Sulking dont do anything, and it especially doesnt do anything when your playing in a CL knock out game.

As crap as Tata may or may not be, as a player your on the pitch and you deicide what happens. Many players have played out of position and had perceived rights taken from them by a tactical decision...they still give their all.

I am somewhere in between. These guys are human. They aren't robots. Everyone knows full well Messi will sulk. He did it under Pep and so it was obvious this would happen. The best player should always try and get the most toches in the most dangerous areas. Xavi being pushed further back is a disgrace and perhaps stems from the teams lack of ball recovery and runners. Yoor job as coach is not just to pick the best team but to manage characters. I dont agree with Messis attitude but Farcta hasn't helped himself with his farcical selection policy all season. It's not just Messi fault. Again you and I both know that the less he sees of the bal =l the less influence he would have. Tata purposefully took the ball away from him so there is nothing else to say tbh.

by The Franchise Wed Apr 16, 2014 2:32 pm

I cant accept sulking in such a game, whether I expect it from him or not.

Not having him involved is indeed a poor tactical decision and defies any real logic, no argument at all.

However, I dont care....they could ask him to play rightback and he should give everything he has.

I am not niave, I know this will not happen...I am just talking about attitude and intention.

Neymar played on the right, and played quite poor because of it....he still gave everything.

Iniesta plays on the wing, gives everything. Adriano, Dani Alves, Busquets, Song, Mascherano all played at CB or CB in a back 3...still gave everything.

Rooney spent like 3 years (?) playing on the wings and doing Cristiano's running for him...did it like he loved it.

Played behind RVP when I think he wanted to be a 9, still gave everything...plays midfield because there is noone else, still gives everything.

Could think of others like this. None as talented as Messi no question, but I dont believe in the relationship between talent and giving your all. They are completely independent.

Nothing wrong with not be happy about the tactical decision, nothing wrong with discussion of it...but not giving full effort because of, is not acceptable.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:40 pm

The Franchise wrote:Well its a sad day when I say Cruyff is wrong, but he is wrong. Messi was not the most dangerous player vs Atletico.

I think you are Missing Cruyff 's main point, which is that players don't go from making an effort to not making one in 10 days.

by jibers Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:45 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Well its a sad day when I say Cruyff is wrong, but he is wrong. Messi was not the most dangerous player vs Atletico.
I think you are Missing Cruyff 's main point, which is that players don't go from making an effort to not making one in 10 days.

But he wasn't making an effort and he was sulking because he was put on the wing scratch

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:52 pm

That's your interpretation. If you look at Martino 's post match comments and the fact that Messi has been improving his work rate as if late I think it's likelier that he was instructed to not track back as much.

by The Franchise Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:56 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Well its a sad day when I say Cruyff is wrong, but he is wrong. Messi was not the most dangerous player vs Atletico.
I think you are Missing Cruyff 's main point, which is that players don't go from making an effort to not making one in 10 days.

Well he did do that. He made alot of effort vs Madrid and didnt make alot of effort vs Atletico.

If there is a reason is another question, which Cruyff doesnt speak about...but that is exactly what happened.

by The Franchise Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:58 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:That's your interpretation. If you look at Martino 's post match comments and the fact that Messi has been improving his work rate as if late I think it's likelier that he was instructed to not track back as much.

Martino said nothing about defending though, he said he wanted to him to stay 1 v 1 vs the winger in attack.

I dont even mind him not tracking back, but he was standing and watching, even when we were losing, while the players around him were pressing as hard as they could.

by alexjanosik Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:29 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Well its a sad day when I say Cruyff is wrong, but he is wrong. Messi was not the most dangerous player vs Atletico.
I think you are Missing Cruyff 's main point, which is that players don't go from making an effort to not making one in 10 days.

Except this is not the only game where his attitude has been in question.There are countless games over the past 3 years where his effort has been lackluster to say the least.Too many times this has happened.
Its ironic that it was us under Pep who revolutionized the concept of defending like a pack of rabid wolves and now other teams have copied us and and do the same to us,while we because of one lazy bum end up looking comical when we try to press.
And you still havent answered me.Would u tell ur boss that wont work the entire year because you have to vacation in the summer?

by bazinga Wed Apr 16, 2014 6:53 pm

alexjanosik wrote:
BarrileteCosmico wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Well its a sad day when I say Cruyff is wrong, but he is wrong. Messi was not the most dangerous player vs Atletico.
I think you are Missing Cruyff 's main point, which is that players don't go from making an effort to not making one in 10 days.

Except this is not the only game where his attitude has been in question.There are countless games over the past 3 years where his effort has been lackluster to say the least.Too many times this has happened.
Its ironic that it was us under Pep who revolutionized the concept of defending like a pack of rabid wolves and now other teams have copied us and and do the same to us,while we because of one lazy bum end up looking comical when we try to press.
And you still havent answered me.Would u tell ur boss that wont work the entire year because you have to vacation in the summer?

I don't see a lot of people who actually play and coach football in the real world criticizing him. It's just you with your overly harsh words and perception that he doesn't do anything, when in fact he is currently one of the few players who is playing at any semblance of their previous seasons' level.

by Casciavit Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:06 pm

alexjanosik wrote:I agree 100% with eelir.I hope the bum fails and fails hard.That ought to teach the punk a lesson.And its hilarious that the majority are still defending the bum.
How about some facts?
Fact 1: The bum is paid millions.And why may I ask is he paid millions and millions by the club?Wait for it.The answer might shock you.
He is paid millions to act like a professional and give his all for the club and not act like he owns the pitch.To those who are childishly defending him,I will ask just one question.
I assume most of you are working and in positions of responsibility.Please go into work tomorrow and tell your boss this.
"Since I will be going on vacation in the summer,I wont be able to give my all at work.I will give at max 10% and I will be slacking off most of the time.I need to conserve my energy for the summer.If there is any important work please dont give it to me as I am only thinking of my vacation."

Thats how ridiculous some of you are sounding while defending the bum.He is a professional,he owes us everything(not the other way round as some of you mistakenly believe),he is paid millions to act like a professional and give his all on the pitch.
If he cant do that(as has been increasingly clear for the past 2 years) then he can get out.But before he is sold I want the punk taught a lesson.Bench him for Tello and then bring him for Tello in the 89th minute every single game.And then we sell him to whoever bids highest.
Good riddance to bad....................

I think its even more ridiculous that you're comparing the WC, (the most important trophy any player can dream of) to a vacation.

However, I agree with your general point. He gets paid to play and show effort while doing so. If I was a Barca fan I wouldn't be too happy over the fact he's slacking off for his club so he could be 100% for WC.

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Apr 16, 2014 10:27 pm

alexjanosik wrote:Except this is not the only game where his attitude has been in question.There are countless games over the past 3 years where his effort has been lackluster to say the least.Too many times this has happened.
Its ironic that it was us under Pep who revolutionized the concept of defending like a pack of rabid wolves and now other teams have copied us and and do the same to us,while we because of one lazy bum end up looking comical when we try to press.
And you still havent answered me.Would u tell ur boss that wont work the entire year because you have to vacation in the summer?

No of course not. I'm just trying to put some question into whether Messi is saving himself for the WC or there are other explanations for it.

by sanchez04 Thu Apr 17, 2014 12:22 am

This saving for WC is BS. He doesnt play for many reasons.

Main reason Martino tried to make team less messi dependable. Barca is like Argentina team for him now. He doesnt see much ball

Another reason is first time in his career he doesnt lead top scorer tables

Another reason is Blatter took ballond dor from him. Its clear he won before extending

Another reason is injury fear. First time in many years he got 3 month long injury. And it costed him Ballon Dor+La liga top scorer+CL top scorer awards. He is in third position in every competition scorer list because of injury. Before injury he was pressing and running like crazy

So you are saying me that after his injury he started to think about World Cup? Why he didnt think about it before his injury?

Amount of dumb people in this world Surprised

by sanchez04 Thu Apr 17, 2014 1:14 am

Losing and failures makes him worse. So instead of wishing him many loses you should do opposite and wish him success and good mood

He never saves himself for anything. This same dude was playing copa del rey matches and friendlies with barca B team before big champions league finals and semifinals in the past

by futbol Thu Apr 17, 2014 3:51 am

Won't blame him. I'd also lose my passion for the sport and stop running when my team full of midgets puts in 4 times as many crosses as the giants of Real Madrid.

by zigra Thu Apr 17, 2014 10:28 am

Should he? Doesn't matter as he just won't. This world cup isn't about Messi or Argentina.

by eelir Thu Apr 17, 2014 5:30 pm

Fußball wrote:Won't blame him. I'd also lose my passion for the sport and stop running when my team full of midgets puts in 4 times as many crosses as the giants of Real Madrid.

For some reason he really puts effort against RM. You can see that he was trying even though his contribution was mediocre, but he was trying, which can not be said for some other games.

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