Is RVP the new Berbatov?

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Is RVP the new Berbatov? Empty Is RVP the new Berbatov?

Post by Art Morte Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:02 am

Or am I knee-jerking?

I know he has got 11 goals in the Prem having only played in 16 PL games this season. But sometimes, perhaps too often, he's just looking too casual and even lazy out there. He is still showcasing that great technique, but is he doing all he can to help United? Would he be doing seriously better if the team around him was playing better, or should he be playing better for the team around him to play better?

There's some resemblance with Berbatov:

Dimitar was 31 when he was sold in summer 2012. The season before, when he was 30, he had hardly played, scoring 7 goals. The season before that (29-yo) he was still a crucial part, scoring 21 goals in the league.

RVP is now 30 and it's in the balance whether he's having a good season or not. Last season, when he was 29, he scored 26 league goals.

So, both had a great season for United when they were 29-years-old. They are somewhat similar strikers, great finishers, great technique, not known for their work-rate. Ferguson diminished Berbatov's role greatly when he turned 30 and sold him the year after. Is RVP following his footsteps or is there more to come from him?
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Post by Raptorgunner Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:06 am

RVP"I am allowed to drop back to touch the ball, but my teammates also sometimes play in the position where i like to play. And if i see that then its hard for me to also play there, so im forced to change my run paths because of my teammates.

And unfortunately they play too often in my zone and i don't like that."

Interview: Do you know what is wrong with this United?

RvP: Yeah but, I won't point fingers, because im not like that.

 Suspect cheers

He is gone from United, not sure if there is any team who could afford his wages.


Last edited by Raptorgunner on Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Lex Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:07 am

His best days are behind him, IMO. He looks uninspired and unmotivated, burdened with making a mediocre team look amazing under the guidance of a clown
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Post by RED Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:07 am

Not playing for Moyes. That's all.
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Post by zigra Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:14 am

Certainly not finished Laughing Amazing striker and player but no doubt he's not fully motivated at the moment though that's hardly surprising. He either wants to leave the club or Moyes out of it IMO. Think it's the former because I'm quite certain he wants to win a CL medal.
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Post by VendettaRed07 Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:18 am

Yes, he is.
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Post by Art Morte Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:19 am

Raptorgunner wrote:RVP"I am allowed to drop back to touch the ball, but my teammates also sometimes play in the position where i like to play. And if i see that then its hard for me to also play there, so im forced to change my run paths because of my teammates.

And unfortunately they play too often in my zone and i don't like that."

Interview: Do you know what is wrong with this United?

RvP: Yeah but, I won't point fingers, because im not like that.

 Suspect cheers

He is gone from United, not sure if there is any team who could afford his wages.

Those comments sound like an excuse to me. He's playing with Rooney, who's also a striker. They should be complementing each other and not be like "he's in my way!". Like Suarez and Sturridge at Liverpool, they interchange positions and at times it's only one of them up front, other times it's both of them - and we're scoring a sh**load of goals. If those are RVP's explanation to his performances, I think he's trying to scapegoat his teammates.

RED wrote:Not playing for Moyes. That's all.

I think it's more than just the manager. When players go out there on the pitch, they're playing with each other, should be trying to help each other. If a player is on the pitch thinking "I'm not trying my best under this manager" it's even worse than playing bad because of lack of class.
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Post by The Franchise Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:20 am

We will see in the WC and the next years, but I think he still has it.

Today he got nothing, not any service at all...when he finally did, he was obviously snatching at it and missed a great chance.

Young and Valencia gave him nothing today.
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Post by Robespierre Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:23 am

IMO Van Persie is as many Dutch talents of last 15 years. Players so very talented but they tend to be lazy if they are not motivated . One of the reasons for the discontinuity of this national team.
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Post by Busby Babe Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:24 am

Art Morte wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:RVP"I am allowed to drop back to touch the ball, but my teammates also sometimes play in the position where i like to play. And if i see that then its hard for me to also play there, so im forced to change my run paths because of my teammates.

And unfortunately they play too often in my zone and i don't like that."

Interview: Do you know what is wrong with this United?

RvP: Yeah but, I won't point fingers, because im not like that.

 Suspect cheers

He is gone from United, not sure if there is any team who could afford his wages.

Those comments sound like an excuse to me. He's playing with Rooney, who's also a striker. They should be complementing each other and not be like "he's in my way!". Like Suarez and Sturridge at Liverpool, they interchange positions and at times it's only one of them up front, other times it's both of them - and we're scoring a sh**load of goals. If those are RVP's explanation to his performances, I think he's trying to scapegoat his teammates.

Some partnerships just don't work RVP and Rooney is one.
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Post by chad4401 Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:30 am

tbh rvp has a point imo, this is not fifa in real life having 2 cf of high calibers can't coexist in one area, especially in todays game someone has to back down and stay outta the way.

who thought cavani and ibra was gonna make a killer duo? Laughing
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Post by Le Samourai Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:58 am

How much? 20 million?

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Post by Raptorgunner Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:03 am

Le Samourai wrote:How much? 20 million?


Who would pay his wages?

I think he still has another 2 years in him.



Last edited by Raptorgunner on Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:12 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Le Samourai Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:05 am

Raptorgunner wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:How much? 20 million?


Who would pay his wages?

I think he still has another 2 years in him.

Wages Laughing

Does he make more than Ronaldo?, if so there may be an issue, but I'm sure a adequate course of antidepressants could sort it out.
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Post by Firenze Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:11 am

RED wrote:Not playing for Moyes. That's all.

Yup. Was fighting tooth and nail last season under Fergie. Tracking back and throwing in pretty terrible challenges, lol, but I distinctly recall him putting in a shift especially in big games. Cleared a fair few off the line too.

No doubt we'll see that RVP once the headless chicken gets the boot.

I recall early in the season the reports and pictures that he wasn't happy with Moyes' training style.



Last edited by Firenze on Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Raptorgunner Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:13 am

Le Samourai wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:How much? 20 million?


Who would pay his wages?

I think he still has another 2 years in him.

Wages Laughing

Does he make more than Ronaldo?, if so there may be an issue, but I'm sure a adequate course of antidepressants could sort it out.

Maybe I am wrong but I believe he is on 250k a week. What a Face
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Post by VendettaRed07 Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:27 am

Le Samourai wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:How much? 20 million?


Who would pay his wages?

I think he still has another 2 years in him.

Wages Laughing

Does he make more than Ronaldo?, if so there may be an issue, but I'm sure a adequate course of antidepressants could sort it out.

I don't think it's unreasonable to believe his wages will factor into what teams are willing to pay for his transfer considering other negatives like his age and all his injuries.

With all those I don't see anyone paying 20m+. United will have to bring down the price
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Post by SchinnerC Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:57 am

Don't think there are much wrong to what he said. From a tactical standpoint, 1)United's midfielders and wingers are incredibly static, patterns of play are repetitive hence he has no pockets of space to fill/move into 2)Rooney tend to drop deep and with the amount of balls thrown in as blind crosses, he has to be in and around the box.

Of course, he's going to be annoyed. He's too technical and intelligent to be waiting for balls to drop on his head. He is only human.
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Post by Chumlum Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:06 am

Actually, RvP and Berbatov isn't a bad comparison.

Of course their early trajectories are different. It took RvP many years, many injuries, and a circuitous series of transformations, to become the kind of player he is now - I don't mean just in terms of his arrival as a more or less "world class" striker circa 2011 onwards, but in terms of where and how he plays on the pitch. But basically, ever since January 2011 or so when RvP kicked off his great run of form, some comparison with Berba is warranted.

He sometimes is lazy if unmotivated; sometimes he isn't actually lazy but he might still look like it; often, despite his alleged laziness he is still the talisman of whatever team he's playing for; and he clearly just oozes footballing intelligence and ability.

I don't want RvP back or anything but on occasion I still think it would have been all so much better if he'd just stayed at Arsenal and remained patient. He traded a chance at become a club legend and very possibly winning big trophies, just so he could jump ship to Man Utd, win the league once, and then work under David Moyes.
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Post by LeBéninois Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:23 am

Chumlum wrote:Actually, RvP and Berbatov isn't a bad comparison.

Of course their early trajectories are different. It took RvP many years, many injuries, and a circuitous series of transformations, to become the kind of player he is now - I don't mean just in terms of his arrival as a more or less "world class" striker circa 2011 onwards, but in terms of where and how he plays on the pitch. But basically, ever since January 2011 or so when RvP kicked off his great run of form, some comparison with Berba is warranted.

He sometimes is lazy if unmotivated; sometimes he isn't actually lazy but he might still look like it; often, despite his alleged laziness he is still the talisman of whatever team he's playing for; and he clearly just oozes footballing intelligence and ability.

I don't want RvP back or anything but on occasion I still think it would have been all so much better if he'd just stayed at Arsenal and remained patient. He traded a chance at become a club legend and very possibly winning big trophies, just so he could jump ship to Man Utd, win the league once, and then work under David Moyes.

UNLESS ARSENAL  win the title in the next 2 years ( this one included ) he has made the good choice as he got his medal.
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Post by Lex Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:29 am

Was it worth it?
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Post by Red Alert Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:39 am

^ Well he did win the league. So, yeah I guess it was... (not trolling either btw, it's the same case with Torres).

Le Samourai wrote:
Raptorgunner wrote:
Le Samourai wrote:How much? 20 million?


Who would pay his wages?

I think he still has another 2 years in him.

Wages Laughing

Does he make more than Ronaldo?, if so there may be an issue, but I'm sure a adequate course of antidepressants could sort it out.

He's what, 31/32 now? On 250k a week. Injury prone...

Who would be stupid enough to take that risk?
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Post by ExtremistEnigma Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:42 am

But but.. he is not past it.. Laughing
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Post by sree999 Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:38 am

Robin van Persie: Manchester United players are in spaces I want to play in


• Dutchman defends the manager David Moyes
• 'It's easy to point the finger, but I'm not like that'



Robin van Persie criticised some of his Manchester United team-mates for "sometimes occupying the spaces I want to play in" following their wretched 2-0 defeat to Olympiakos in the Champions League last-16 opening leg at the Karaiskakis Stadium on Tuesday night.

The Dutchman's voicing of disquiet at the dismal campaign echoes Rio Ferdinand's comments earlier in the season, when the defender questioned the manager David Moyes' approach of naming the side close to kick-off.

Van Persie told the Dutch TV channel NOS: "Our fellow players are sometimes occupying the spaces I want to play in. And when I see that it makes it difficult for me to come to those spaces as well. So that forces me to adjust my runs, based on the position of my fellow players. And unfortunately, they're often playing in my zones. I think that's a shame."

The striker, who missed a good chance towards the end of the game, defended Moyes, however. "He's working hard at it, and so are we. Sometimes we play well, but not all the time. We don't have luck on our side. It's easy to point the finger at someone, but I'm not like that. We have to do better ourselves."

Of his missed chance, Van Persie said: "I rushed that shot. That's a shame because I don't get a lot of chances so when you get one, you have to score."

Moyes, who was unaware of the comments when he did his post-match press conference, admitted that he did not see the "level of performance coming" in the defeat, which the manager branded their poorest in Europe under him.

Goals from Alejandro Domínguez and Joel Campbell allowed the unfancied Greek champions to hand United a first loss in the Champions League since Moyes became the manager.

He said: "That's the worst we have played in Europe, that's for sure. It was a really poor performance. We never really got going from the start and we didn't deserve anything because of the way we played. We never really got to grips with things and to a man you could hardly pick anybody out. We just didn't perform."

Moyes refused to criticise his players, though he did admit to concern at what he had seen. "We came into the game in good form and a good mind-set but it just didn't show. I am just surprised. I didn't see that level of performance coming. I just didn't see it. But I have to say I still don't think we were necessarily two goals worse off. But we didn't offer enough to create a goal. I expected Olympiakos's performance," said the Scot before explaining why he had gone on to the pitch at the end to speak to a match official.

"We showed fair play when the player got injured and Danny Welbeck kicked it back to the goalkeeper so I would have expected fair play from the referee when the cross came in the last minute. I would have expected the same from the referee."

Pressed that Moyes must be disappointed at players who he is showing faith in, the manager said: "I take responsibility. It is my time and I will always front up. We didn't play well. We have to play better. We can do and the one good thing is that there is still a second game to come. We will do everything we can possibly do to reverse the 2-0 defeat."

Moyes left Adnan Januzaj out of the match-day 18 despite the teenager impressing throughout the season. To explain, he said: "I decided last week I would play Tom Cleverley so I chose not to use him."

Roy Keane, working on ITV as a pundit, was highly critical of the display. The former United captain said: "Nobody predicted that. It's been a tough night for the club, the players and the fans. There is a lack of confidence and there are some players who just don't have the quality. They need six or seven players to rebuild the club. Privately, David Moyes will be shocked at the quality he is working with."

When this last claim was put to the Scot, he said: "I think there is undoubtedly talent at Manchester United but tonight we didn't show it. Me and the team we didn't show it together. It is something we will have to do. We will put it right. We are determined to put it right and will have opportunities to do that in the coming weeks.

"The players are hurting as well. They know how they performed. But it is a team here and it won't change. We will stick to together. There is a second game to come and Old Trafford has seen some great nights in the past and I am looking forward to hopefully seeing another one."

With United having failed to claim an invaluable away goal they have to win by a margin of three in the return leg at Old Trafford on 19 March. Michael Carrick, moreover, insisted that United can still go through to the quarter-finals. "We feel like we are still in with a chance going back to Old Trafford. We've lost a game. We came here hoping to win but we are not out of the tie. You're looking for me to blame someone but everyone at the club is judged by results."

That brought more criticism from Keane. "That interview was just like the performance: flat. He should say a bit more, have a bit more urgency even in his interview. That just reflected United's performance tonight: flat, with no urgency."

The sense of disarray at the club was heightened when Carrick's wife responded by branding Keane a "****" in a tweet. It read: "Roy Keane what a ****, says anything to provoke a reaction.. That's all.. Done..." She subsequently tweeted: "Deleted my tweet .. Emotions got the better of me .. Just disappointed
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Post by Art Morte Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:16 am

Towards the end of Berbatov's United career, Ferguson started to see him as a luxury player, someone to use against weaker teams when United were likely to dominate.

It seems to me Van Persie is in danger of becoming a somewhat similar luxury player if he isn't able to help United more in tough games than he has been doing this season. United aren't playing too good and, for my money, RVP isn't lifting the team as much as he should. His comments that "teammates are getting into my space" sort of reflect an attitude of a luxury player.
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