For those who just don't understand....

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:19 pm

Profoundly unsatisfactory: Newcastle United’s vapid, hollow-eyed performance in the Tyne-Wear derby. Profoundly unsatisfactory: selling Yohan Cabaye, without question their most accomplished player, and failing to replace him. Profoundly unsatisfactory: successive transfer windows without a single permanent signing. Profoundly unsatisfactory: two words which could sit beneath the club crest.

“Profoundly unsatisfactory”: a phrase employed by a Premier League tribunal in October 2009, which found in favour of Kevin Keegan’s claim for constructive dismissal against Mike Ashley’s Newcastle and which now, five years later, is in their DNA. Defeat to Sunderland can cloud the eyes, befuddle the brain and inflame emotion, but not this time. More than anything else, it felt like another quiet, lonely death.

“The cathedral on this hill” was how Sir Bobby Robson used to refer to St James’ Park, perched on Gallowgate’s elevation, visible from most approaches to the city, but that was before the bulldozers moved in and a cavernous warehouse was erected in its place. Newcastle did not participate in a game on Saturday, not really. They were a 90-minute advertisement for Sports Direct and Wonga. They are a works’ team, with better perks.

The extraordinary thing is that Newcastle remain eighth in the Barclays Premier League and players and staff are fulfilling their brief. They are on course for a bonus. There have been worse moments in their history, not least the toxic season which followed Keegan’s departure, and episodes when they have danced towards oblivion or irrelevance, but have they ever been this transparent? Have they ever felt this empty?

Eighth and on target, but out of both domestic cups which, more and more, feels like betrayal of history (“Our primary aim and focus has to be the Premier League,” is the official, joyless mantra). Eighth, but rejecting the chance to reinvest, regroup and, with a bit of luck, kick on. Eighth, but three-time losers to their local rivals. Eighth and apparently content with that. Eighth and leading the race for eighth. Eighth and pointless.

Communication with supporters is measly, bombastic, deflating or contradictory. Joe Kinnear, the director of football, says “judge me on my signings,” and then makes none. Directors to a fans’ forum in September: “the club confirmed that money was available.” Alan Pardew: “you can’t lose a player of (Cabaye’s) quality and not replace him.” Pardew at the weekend: “I didn’t particularly say in this window, though.”

Whether or not Newcastle refurbish their squad this summer (there is no evidence they are capable of it), an opportunity has been forsaken and there is no guarantee that results, fortune or circumstances will fall for them next time. Momentum is everything, as Sunderland have shown, and Pardew has lost his biggest player and personality, not that it excuses the paucity they mustered against Gustavo Poyet’s team.

Sunderland fans might dispute the tone of this. If you want desperation, try two relegations with record-low point tallies. Try Paolo Di Canio and taking root at the foot of the table for half a season. They would have a case, but Newcastle’s recent narrative is of a soul’s slow corrosion, peppered with some surges and decent football. Cups? Not a priority. The Europa League? No, no, no, no, not at any cost. A hole, which a club once filled.

On Wearside, mistakes are legion and perhaps there will be more, but errors have been corrected with a stunning brutality. Di Canio was dismissed 13 games into a two-and-a-half year contract. Roberto De Fanti, Kinnear’s equivalent, lasted a few months. At Newcastle, Kinnear is associated indelibly with relegation, but is given another job and greater responsibility. He is still there, when nothing suggests he is qualified for it.

There was no affection in this space for Ashley’s predecessors and there is no mourning for them now. The money they spent was not theirs, their stewardship made wealthy men wealthier and an institutionalised arrogance brought interference and vanity signings ahead of growth and improvement. Their departure was overdue, but there is one area of empathy; when they made an appointment, I don’t dispute that it was with a view to winning something.

Some came close, although a majority were a queasy fit and Newcastle’s quicksand foundations and financial overreaching were deep flaws and fissures. Partially through his own missteps, Ashley has offered some correction and there was a worth to Derek Llambias seeking “stability” through self-sufficiency, a strict transfer model and long-term contracts, although the byproduct was often hateful (Sports Direct Arena, Wonga).

One argument – and it is a powerful one – is that any notion of stability was blown away from the second that Kinnear blundered into Newcastle saying that all criticism of him was “water off a duck’s arse,” and promising “I’ve got my finger in the pie halfway around the world.” Another is that this is where stability gets you. Eighth, with Ashley knowing that he can do what he wants, pretty much, and people will still turn up.

If you care for Newcastle, Sunderland was unacceptable; for a fixture which carries a clout far beyond the rational, there was no sense of a team. Just 11 untethered men. In isolation, there was “a criminal lack of commitment and talent,” as nufc.com put it, which reflects poorly on Pardew, but the wider picture is of “an overwhelming sense of gloom across Tyneside following the sale of Yohan Cabaye and completely predictable failure to sign a replacement.”

A month or so earlier, Newcastle lost 2-1 at home to Cardiff City in the FA Cup and for the entirety of the day – before, during and after – they felt like a beaten club. There were 31,000 supporters inside the stadium (smaller crowds were widespread, admittedly) and apathy was entrenched. The league had won, Sky had won, Ashley had won, just get it over with and move on. That experience was profoundly unsatisfactory, too.

Ashley has staunched his losses, but his Newcastle is without direction, where relationships are risibly brittle and where nobody will take him on. Where the chief scout scouts players the director of football does not buy and where the manager makes do, unable or unwilling to criticise, the only public face of a dysfunctional business. Where they can all point to the table and claim they are doing their jobs. A profoundly unsatisfactory eighth.

It is one of those dilemmas that shovels lead in the pit of supporters’ stomachs, because Newcastle may be a difficult club to love, but they are even more difficult to forsake. And, when it comes down to it, they should not have to do. When Keegan arrived for his first spell as manager, the first thing he did was fumigate the dressing-rooms. They need another Keegan. They need a fumigator.

Credit to George Caulkin from the Times for the piece.
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Post by Onyx Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:32 pm

8th is a decent position for Newcastle. If they're in the relegation zone, that's when they should start worrying.

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Post by The_Badger Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:46 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:8th is a decent position for Newcastle. If they're in the relegation zone, that's when they should start worrying.

The problem with the Geordies is they think they are bigger and better than they are. Always have.

It wasn't that long ago they were proclaiming to be the 8th biggest club in the world. rofl

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Post by VendettaRed07 Mon Feb 03, 2014 6:51 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:8th is a decent position for Newcastle. If they're in the relegation zone, that's when they should start worrying.

8th is a terrible position. 8th doesn't mean squat. Newcastle would be better off in the relegation zone because they'd have th pressure to address their weakness and force a change of management and actually try and improve, rather than sit at 8th and do nothing.
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Post by Busby Babe Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:02 pm

Newcastle should be above 8th, because the team is capable of more. I'm actually quite surprised they're not ahead of us, we've been really poor.

Pardew's team selection against Cardiff in the FA Cup was a joke. Why put a weakened side out when the league is pretty much done?

The real problem, however, is it's not just the manager but the owner too.
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Post by Onyx Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:10 pm

Looking at the teams above Newcastle, they should be happy being 8th. All the other teams are superior.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:13 pm

The_Badger wrote:
Yohan Modric wrote:8th is a decent position for Newcastle. If they're in the relegation zone, that's when they should start worrying.

The problem with the Geordies is they think they are bigger and better than they are. Always have.

It wasn't that long ago they were proclaiming to be the 8th biggest club in the world. rofl

Its nothing to do with league position, can't you read?
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Post by The_Badger Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:22 pm

I never said it was to do with league position. Can't you read?

A few years back there was one of those money league tables released where Newcastle were 8th.

Being thick as mince, the Geordies interpreted this as being the 8th best club in the world and still now think they are.

No wonder out national media take the piss out of Newcastle United FC.

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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:30 pm

Actually no one does and if they do say that they are joking most of the time.

No one thinks they are that big, its a myth driven home by the media and it couldn't even be further from the truth.

When this season started, a Newcastle forum i'm on which has thousands of members voted where we would finish and the majority said bottom half.

Again its nothing to do with league position or size of a club.... learn to read and stop being ignorant.

If anything majority of fans are pessimistic because of how long its been since we have had success.

But go on continue to listen to the mainstream media who have no idea what they are talking about and ignoring the facts.

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Post by RedOranje Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:33 pm

The article isn't talking about Newcastle's league position as being "profoundly unsatisfactory," it's talking about the club's ambition (or lack thereof) being such. And that's Mole's point as well, always has been.

I don't think anyone associated with Newcastle as a fan is too terribly upset at sitting in the top half of the table at this moment. They are, however, angry and frustrated that that appears to be the club's sole ambition. Get into the top half of the table and stay there. No push for trophies in the cups, no major investments to try to climb back into the discussion for European places, and no real long-term ambition of competing for trophies. Just consolidate midtable and stay there... an existence relevant only for it's utter lack of relevance to any but the home supporters. OF COURSE some of you will have not read the article at all and will have only made assumptions to predicate accusations against the fans (like Mole) upon. But in this case he, and the article he's posted, have a clear and well reasoned point; one that could, should, and hopefully will provide a wee bit of perspective for some of the posters on this forum. Unfortunately, I rather doubt many will pay enough attention to catch it.
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Post by El Gunner Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:37 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
Profoundly unsatisfactory: Newcastle United’s vapid, hollow-eyed performance in the Tyne-Wear derby. Profoundly unsatisfactory: selling Yohan Cabaye, without question their most accomplished player, and failing to replace him. Profoundly unsatisfactory: successive transfer windows without a single permanent signing. Profoundly unsatisfactory: two words which could sit beneath the club crest.

“Profoundly unsatisfactory”: a phrase employed by a Premier League tribunal in October 2009, which found in favour of Kevin Keegan’s claim for constructive dismissal against Mike Ashley’s Newcastle and which now, five years later, is in their DNA. Defeat to Sunderland can cloud the eyes, befuddle the brain and inflame emotion, but not this time. More than anything else, it felt like another quiet, lonely death.

“The cathedral on this hill” was how Sir Bobby Robson used to refer to St James’ Park, perched on Gallowgate’s elevation, visible from most approaches to the city, but that was before the bulldozers moved in and a cavernous warehouse was erected in its place. Newcastle did not participate in a game on Saturday, not really. They were a 90-minute advertisement for Sports Direct and Wonga. They are a works’ team, with better perks.

The extraordinary thing is that Newcastle remain eighth in the Barclays Premier League and players and staff are fulfilling their brief. They are on course for a bonus. There have been worse moments in their history, not least the toxic season which followed Keegan’s departure, and episodes when they have danced towards oblivion or irrelevance, but have they ever been this transparent? Have they ever felt this empty?

Eighth and on target, but out of both domestic cups which, more and more, feels like betrayal of history (“Our primary aim and focus has to be the Premier League,” is the official, joyless mantra). Eighth, but rejecting the chance to reinvest, regroup and, with a bit of luck, kick on. Eighth, but three-time losers to their local rivals. Eighth and apparently content with that. Eighth and leading the race for eighth. Eighth and pointless.

Communication with supporters is measly, bombastic, deflating or contradictory. Joe Kinnear, the director of football, says “judge me on my signings,” and then makes none. Directors to a fans’ forum in September: “the club confirmed that money was available.” Alan Pardew: “you can’t lose a player of (Cabaye’s) quality and not replace him.” Pardew at the weekend: “I didn’t particularly say in this window, though.”

Whether or not Newcastle refurbish their squad this summer (there is no evidence they are capable of it), an opportunity has been forsaken and there is no guarantee that results, fortune or circumstances will fall for them next time. Momentum is everything, as Sunderland have shown, and Pardew has lost his biggest player and personality, not that it excuses the paucity they mustered against Gustavo Poyet’s team.

Sunderland fans might dispute the tone of this. If you want desperation, try two relegations with record-low point tallies. Try Paolo Di Canio and taking root at the foot of the table for half a season. They would have a case, but Newcastle’s recent narrative is of a soul’s slow corrosion, peppered with some surges and decent football. Cups? Not a priority. The Europa League? No, no, no, no, not at any cost. A hole, which a club once filled.

On Wearside, mistakes are legion and perhaps there will be more, but errors have been corrected with a stunning brutality. Di Canio was dismissed 13 games into a two-and-a-half year contract. Roberto De Fanti, Kinnear’s equivalent, lasted a few months. At Newcastle, Kinnear is associated indelibly with relegation, but is given another job and greater responsibility. He is still there, when nothing suggests he is qualified for it.

There was no affection in this space for Ashley’s predecessors and there is no mourning for them now. The money they spent was not theirs, their stewardship made wealthy men wealthier and an institutionalised arrogance brought interference and vanity signings ahead of growth and improvement. Their departure was overdue, but there is one area of empathy; when they made an appointment, I don’t dispute that it was with a view to winning something.

Some came close, although a majority were a queasy fit and Newcastle’s quicksand foundations and financial overreaching were deep flaws and fissures. Partially through his own missteps, Ashley has offered some correction and there was a worth to Derek Llambias seeking “stability” through self-sufficiency, a strict transfer model and long-term contracts, although the byproduct was often hateful (Sports Direct Arena, Wonga).

One argument – and it is a powerful one – is that any notion of stability was blown away from the second that Kinnear blundered into Newcastle saying that all criticism of him was “water off a duck’s arse,” and promising “I’ve got my finger in the pie halfway around the world.” Another is that this is where stability gets you. Eighth, with Ashley knowing that he can do what he wants, pretty much, and people will still turn up.

If you care for Newcastle, Sunderland was unacceptable; for a fixture which carries a clout far beyond the rational, there was no sense of a team. Just 11 untethered men. In isolation, there was “a criminal lack of commitment and talent,” as nufc.com put it, which reflects poorly on Pardew, but the wider picture is of “an overwhelming sense of gloom across Tyneside following the sale of Yohan Cabaye and completely predictable failure to sign a replacement.”

A month or so earlier, Newcastle lost 2-1 at home to Cardiff City in the FA Cup and for the entirety of the day – before, during and after – they felt like a beaten club. There were 31,000 supporters inside the stadium (smaller crowds were widespread, admittedly) and apathy was entrenched. The league had won, Sky had won, Ashley had won, just get it over with and move on. That experience was profoundly unsatisfactory, too.

Ashley has staunched his losses, but his Newcastle is without direction, where relationships are risibly brittle and where nobody will take him on. Where the chief scout scouts players the director of football does not buy and where the manager makes do, unable or unwilling to criticise, the only public face of a dysfunctional business. Where they can all point to the table and claim they are doing their jobs. A profoundly unsatisfactory eighth.

It is one of those dilemmas that shovels lead in the pit of supporters’ stomachs, because Newcastle may be a difficult club to love, but they are even more difficult to forsake. And, when it comes down to it, they should not have to do. When Keegan arrived for his first spell as manager, the first thing he did was fumigate the dressing-rooms. They need another Keegan. They need a fumigator.

Credit to George Caulkin from the Times for the piece.
rofl when I read that in red... :bow:
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Post by The_Badger Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:38 pm

Actually, they do.

One thing I love about Geordies is they aren't afraid to make themselves look like utter fools for the national media.

"Boycoutt" rofl

For those who just don't understand.... 50252_23626524770_5124204_n

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_j_Sf2q2ns

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEdX78K0JHE

And calling to get rid of Mike Ashley after what he's poured into the club is shameful.

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Post by RedOranje Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:49 pm

Every club has a vocal minority that makes itself (and by extension the club) look just as silly... except those that don't even appear to have many dedicated supporters. They simply don't get as much media attention and therefore don't get the same type of traction with those looking to insult the club and troll it's fans.

Ashley's contribution can be summed up in the article above. Inputting a bit of money (for players that are ultimately sold again anyway, usually without the entirety of the funds reinvested in the club) at the loss of coherency, ambition, and supporter-connection seems a bit of a Faustian bargain to me.
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Post by Jay29 Mon Feb 03, 2014 7:56 pm

Newcastle, as a club, have so much potential; as much as the likes of Everton and Spurs do, perhaps even more so. They've a huge stadium and fanbase and you'd think that with a bit of ambition and investment they could push up to a higher position and actually sustain it.

Even from the outside looking in, there's an apparent lack of plan for Newcastle. Two years ago they were going places with Cabaye, Ben Arfa, Ba and Cisse, playing some very good football and making some shrewd signings. The season after they start playing a completely different style of football that didn't suit their key men and plummeted down the table. Their answer to that was to retain Pardew as manager and instill Joe Kinnear as Director of Football. It was like, as the article suggests, they were aiming to going anywhere but forward.

As a fan, I can't say I know how it must feel to support a club that's not going anywhere. Even though Arsenal went backwards and stagnated for a few years, it was always part of a grander design and fans just had to be patient. With Newcastle, you get the sense that no matter how patient the fans are they're not going to see their club go any higher.

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Post by Doc Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:10 pm

Mole, I understand the article and understand the plight. Trust me, us West Indies Cricket fans know full too well of seeing boards and chairmen settle for gross mediocrity. The problem that always happen is that it trickles down to the players and that 8th position goes down to 10th, then 12th, then 15th and all of sudden, you are watching a team you love so dearly become nothing but a shadow and whisper of their former self.

Shameful in all honesty.
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