Has Suarez surpassed Cristiano and Ibra to become the 2nd best player in the world?

S wrote:

harhar11 wrote:That's the thing, tho. What makes C.Ronaldo the 2nd best player in the world, is his unhumanly productivity rather than his influence throughout a game.

Ofcourse he is very productive not denying that but there have been a lot of 'irrelevant' goals if you can call it in his goal tally.

So,at some point even if Suarez scores crucial goals in important games and becomes a total impact player like Messi is,people will still be in two minds whether they they think he has surpassed CR because,i dont think his goal-scoring abilities isnt going to disappear suddenly.
Say Suarez scores 35 goals and a handful of assists and becomes a total all-rounder in influencing every game ,while CR on the other hand adds another 50 goals to his tally,people would just go with CR because 'he scores that many'.

If you get what i'm saying.

On a sidenote,Suarez just needs maintain this level for a few seasons atleast,then there's no doubt i would say he's better than CR or i would take him over CR atleast.

spot on sugar, messi ruined football by being so good at everything while scoring so many goals. He also ruined Ronaldo because keeping up with his goal tally is about the only thing Ronaldo cares about on the pitch

McAgger wrote:

Pedram wrote:Most of Suarez's goals have been against middle ranked teams in EPL like Norwich. i want to see how he performs against top teams before ranking him alongside proven goalscorers.

PLEASE stop this myth.

You sounds absolutely clueless. Do you know football isn't about stats right?  

For forwards it is.... you may not like hearing it but there's a reason no one was talking about Suarez on a world level the season before last.... because he wasn't scoring goals.

Stats matter.

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

McAgger wrote:

Pedram wrote:Most of Suarez's goals have been against middle ranked teams in EPL like Norwich. i want to see how he performs against top teams before ranking him alongside proven goalscorers.

PLEASE stop this myth.

You sounds absolutely clueless. Do you know football isn't about stats right?  

For forwards it is.... you may not like hearing it but there's a reason no one was talking about Suarez on a world level the season before last.... because he wasn't scoring goals.

Stats matter.

Of course stats matter, which is why statistically this season Suarez is clearly superior than Ronaldo with minutes per goal ratio and conversion rate.

Read it again, I'm not saying stats don't matter.

All I'm saying is stats ARE NOT everything. For example Suarez was the best player on the pitch against City at the Etihad this season but he didn't score a goal, now everyone is assuming he was shit that game.

S wrote:Ofcourse he is very productive not denying that but there have been a lot of 'irrelevant' goals if you can call it in his goal tally.

So,at some point even if Suarez scores crucial goals in important games and becomes a total impact player like Messi is,people will still be in two minds whether they they think he has surpassed CR because,i dont think his goal-scoring abilities isnt going to disappear suddenly.
Say Suarez scores 35 goals and a handful of assists and becomes a total all-rounder in influencing every game ,while CR on the other hand adds another 50 goals to his tally,people would just go with CR because 'he scores that many'.

If you get what i'm saying.

On a sidenote,Suarez just needs maintain this level for a few seasons atleast,then there's no doubt i would say he's better than CR or i would take him over CR atleast.

Oh, I think that I read your original post wrong. I thought that you were saying that C.Ronaldo was better because, while Suarez was matching his productivity, C.Ronaldo was still better because he had more influence throughout a game. But now I see that, I belive, that was not your point, right? Your point was that Suarez has a bigger influence because he, like Ribery said, set the defence on fire more than C.Ronaldo. Is that correct?

Why is it a given that Cronaldo is the second best player in the world? I've watched quite a bit of him this season and his performances weren't anything remarkable. Most recent performance against Celta. He didn't do anything of note for 70+ minutes. Except that on the break he overhit the easiest pass to Di Maria who otherwise would have been 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper. Only the substitution of Jese and Bale injected new life to the team with their pace against tired defenders. Jese drove the ball into the box (as he did against Valencia) and Benzema scored. Celta's heads dropped, they opened up, they were tired and Ronaldo capitalized with 2 tap-ins. Business as usual. Against Valencia practically the same story. 2 free teammates, Cronaldo decides to shoot. 1 offside goal, nothing of note really performance wise. Jese once again the one deciding the game. Did nothing agains Atletico. Did nothing against Barcelona. His misses against Osasuna single-handeldy cost Madrid the 3 points. Then he missed 2 or 3 games and Madrid player their best football ever, scoring 18 goals or something like that as a team. That's pretty much half of his season so far where he didn't do anything of note. Statpadding without performing great + lots of penalties = best player in the world behind Messi. Modern football fans.

I can say with a clear conscience that Neymar has performed better than Ronaldo this season. He was decisive in a way that he didn't just pop up with a goal in a dominating team where someone else could have finished the same play easily. And he's not a defensive and tactical liability. His goalstats might not reflect it but you won't see any Barca fan claiming that Pedro has performed even close to Neymar's level despite having scored more goals in lesser minutes. Nerman was decisive in many tight games. His double nutmeg in Barca's 1-0 victory of Espanyol gave Barca the 3 points. His 2 goals against Villarreal in the 2-1 victory gave Barca another 3 points. His goal against an in-form Atleti gave Barca the Supercopa. His goal and assist gave Barca the victory over Real Madrid. Please tell me why players like Neymar or Suarez shouldn't be compared to Ronaldo then? Because of his goal stats? Brb, Mario Gomez >>> Zidane.

Mehdrid and Yanited fans. Most unknowledgable fanbases in the world. Except jibers and one or two Mehdrid fans.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

Ganso wrote:i dont think someone who doesnt even play CL can be considered top 3,let alone surpass CR.

Does playing in a different league suddenly make you a better player?

well,not in a different league, but  you just cant ignore CL.I mean, suarez never plays against the top teams in Europe other than city and chelsea etc and when he does his performances just aren't the same.The guy scores 4 against norwich and then plays average against chelsea the next weekend.

its unfair when you see a player like CR doing well in La Liga AND against top teams in CL

futbol wrote:Why is it a given that Cronaldo is the second best player in the world? I've watched quite a bit of him this season and his performances weren't anything remarkable. Most recent performance against Celta. He didn't do anything of note for 70+ minutes. Except that on the break he overhit the easiest pass to Di Maria who otherwise would have been 1 on 1 with the goalkeeper. Only the substitution of Jese and Bale injected new life to the team with their pace against tired defenders. Jese drove the ball into the box (as he did against Valencia) and Benzema scored. Celta's heads dropped, they opened up, they were tired and Ronaldo capitalized with 2 tap-ins. Business as usual. Against Valencia practically the same story. 2 free teammates, Cronaldo decides to shoot. 1 offside goal, nothing of note really performance wise. Jese once again the one deciding the game. Did nothing agains Atletico. Did nothing against Barcelona. His misses against Osasuna single-handeldy cost Madrid the 3 points. Then he missed 2 or 3 games and Madrid player their best football ever, scoring 18 goals or something like that as a team. That's pretty much half of his season so far where he didn't do anything of note. Statpadding without performing great + lots of penalties = best player in the world behind Messi. Modern football fans.

I can say with a clear conscience that Neymar has performed better than Ronaldo this season. He was decisive in a way that he didn't just pop up with a goal in a dominating team where someone else could have finished the same play easily. And he's not a defensive and tactical liability. His goalstats might not reflect it but you won't see any Barca fan claiming that Pedro has performed even close to Neymar's level despite having scored more goals in lesser minutes. Nerman was decisive in many tight games. His double nutmeg in Barca's 1-0 victory of Espanyol gave Barca the 3 points. His 2 goals against Villarreal in the 2-1 victory gave Barca another 3 points. His goal against an in-form Atleti gave Barca the Supercopa. His goal and assist gave Barca the victory over Real Madrid. Please tell me why players like Neymar or Suarez shouldn't be compared to Ronaldo then? Because of his goal stats? Brb, Mario Gomez >>> Zidane.

Mehdrid and Yanited fans. Most unknowledgable fanbases in the world. Except jibers and one or two Mehdrid fans.

I would actually say that I agree with what you said, what a suprise  , but I will be called a hater. So.. yeah..  

anyway Suarez is better than Ibra ...but since last year ... Ibra is a player more dominant probably , but overall Suarez is a better player than him,more 'complete and especially higher ,better in the team play
Ibra "forces" you to depend on him , he can't play in a different way , Suarez became the ideal team man under Brendan Rodgers imo

McAgger, your problem is that you are using what suarez did in england for 3 months to claim that he has now surpassed CR who has been doing it at such high a level for the past 5 or 6 years.

In football consistency matters, and i would agree that the level Suarez has shown looks higher than what CR might produce, but it doesnt matter if he cant do it for 2 or 3 years straight.

ExtremistEnigma wrote:Yeah.. if he only scores against midtable clubs then why doesn't anyone else have numbers similar to him? Stats aside, one thing people need to be grasp here is the players that he plays along with are garbage.. yet he has been producing exceptional performances week-in, week-out.

Will Ronaldo be as effective in Suarez's place in this Liverpool side? Not a chance. He'll be surrounded with scrubs and won't be as productive as he's at Madrid.
Will Suarez be as effective in Ronaldo's place in this Madrid side? I'm quite certain.

Saying Suarez is not a top 3 player in the world just because he doesn't play in the CL is simply deluded and irrational. It speaks more about the club he plays for rather than him individually.

Suarez to be as effective as Ronaldo in this Madrid ?   

I'll assume everybody here watches CR/Madrid every game.

I'm not even going to talk about the defensive side of the game because Suarez completely shits on Ronaldo in this. This is an area that makes Ronaldo a huge liability to his team, whereas Suarez with his never-stop-running-never-say-die attitude and cheeky shirt pulls and bullish approach is probably the best in the world in the first line of defense. So like I said I won't go any further on this.  

I'm just going to talk about when Madrid are on the ball and are attacking.

90% of the Madrid attacks are set up so that the ball is delivered to CR in that shooting position whether inside or outside the box. So Madrid bring the ball up, they pass it around and around, eventually after some futile attempts of making it appear as though the ball won't be going to Ronaldo, they get the ball to CR. He receives the ball in a very arrogant fashion he does a pointless stepover or two (which lets the other teams defense some time to get their shape together and ), sees that he's not in a shooting position and gives the ball right back to someone else or loses it and dives. And, outrageously, quite often he decides that the best option is to shoot from that terrible position, which he does and completely breaks down the attack. Now when Ronaldo is in a shooting position well without any hesitation he smacks it or heads it and usually 86% of the time he does NOT score (testament to his 14% conversion rate). And another frustrating part of Ronaldo’s game comes alive here, his terrible selfishness. Many a time, his teammates are unmarked in significantly better scoring positions but Ronaldo already has his tunnel vision turned on at this point. Then you rinse and repeat this process a bunch of times throughout the match. Now on the counter attack, this is where Ronaldo is menacing as he makes absolutely amazing runs and puts himself in positions to easily tap in goal after goal after goal or make assists. And a very unsurprising fact I read the other day comes into play here and that is that almost all of Ronaldo’s assists come on the counter attack. This highlights his extreme lack of ability to breakdown defenses with creativity or vision.

That’s basically Ronaldo in EVERY game. When he’s on form his shots on go in at a better rate. When he’s off form his shots go in at a lesser rate. He would never be able to do what he does at Madrid at a team like Liverpool though.

So now I ask you how on earth a player who I described above can possibly be a top 2 player in the world. The only thing that’s putting him into consideration are his outrageous stats and efficiency to keep up with the undisputed best Messi. Outside of goals he hurts his team more than he helps them and that’s the sad truth. And fair play to Ronaldo that he scores so much, goals win games, but they do not win championships.

Still doesnt make Suarez better because he has played this good for 3 months McAgger.

Winning games pretty much gives you a better chance of winning a championship though.

Doc wrote:Winning games pretty much gives you a better chance of winning a championship though.

his goals won us a league btw

And people berate me on here. 3 months of good form and he's the best player in the World.

Ronaldo is apparently a hindrance to Madrid but the man who's team has a winning record without him and a losing record with him in the team isn't?

If Ronaldo isn't the 2nd best player in the World then it's most definitely Ibra. He does everything Suarez can do but at an even higher level with the hold up play, aerial ability and strength to go along with it.

Valkyrja wrote:

Doc wrote:Winning games pretty much gives you a better chance of winning a championship though.

his goals won us a league btw

TWO years ago. No one is arguing 2 years ago Ronaldo was the 2nd best player. We are talking about now.

Gil wrote:And people berate me on here. 3 months of good form and he's the best player in the World.

Ronaldo is apparently a hindrance to Madrid but the man who's team has a winning record without him and a losing record with him in the team isn't?

I schooled you on Coutinho just yesterday, you really want me to prove you wrong for the millionth time?

Tired of arguing with someone who isn't going to be arsed to read your comment.

McAgger wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

Doc wrote:Winning games pretty much gives you a better chance of winning a championship though.

his goals won us a league btw

TWO years ago. No one is arguing 2 years ago Ronaldo was the 2nd best player. We are talking about now.

He's better now.

Doc wrote:Winning games pretty much gives you a better chance of winning a championship though.

That's all you took from that whole thing I wrote??

ffs that was like the most useless line I had in that post Someone actually provide some basis that everything I said in that post is not 100% correct.

Valkyrja wrote:

McAgger wrote:

Valkyrja wrote:

his goals won us a league btw

TWO years ago. No one is arguing 2 years ago Ronaldo was the 2nd best player. We are talking about now.

He's better now.

Care to provide some basis to what your saying instead of just spouting one liners

Gil wrote:
If Ronaldo isn't the 2nd best player in the World then it's most definitely Ibra. He does everything Suarez can do but at an even higher level with the hold up play, aerial ability and strength to go along with it.

Well that's not really true, ibra can't do everything suarez can do. First of all he can't turn and he can't accelerate like suarez

So what is "Now"? when does it start? when does it end?

is it from beginning of the current season to now? Do you think that's a good enough time frame to judge players?

It's one thing to point that one player is having an amazing season, but it's another to say that he is "now" better than CR.

It would be like saying that Negredo is better than Falcao.

Although i would say that we often act like there is an insurmountable between Messi, CR and the rest. I think it was only true for Messi imo.

Nick you act like Suarez has only been good for 3 months. Suarez was playing at this level since last season. His 30 goals are a testament to that last season. He was just surrounded by a shower of shit and some teenagers, now his teammates are better this season in comparison and long behold he looks more impressive as well because he doesn't have to carry the load all by himself.

I would consider myself very well qualified to answer this than probably all of you (non Pool fans) here when I say that Suarez was just as good last season in general play but because his teammates are better and his conversion rate is higher this season he's finally being recognized.

Ibra aerial ability? Ibra totally sucks in the air, despite his height. Even hardcore Ibra fans acknowledge this as his major weakness. Typical Gil.

lol at the undermining of Ronaldo

Why do people try to bring him down so much? See Ronaldo's record. It speaks for itself. 400 goals at the age of 28. How many can match that? What Ronaldo has done is nothing short of exceptional. Only Messi can better him at anything.

Ibra and Suarez are both fantastic players but neither of them are better than Ronaldo nor they have done what Ronaldo has in the last 5 years. It's becoming a hipster thing at this point.

Messi and Ronaldo are in one category. Messi is the Ultimate Greatest of All time while Ronaldo will be remembered as someone who was 2nd best to Messi in this era.

futbol wrote:Ibra aerial ability? :lol:Ibra totally sucks in the air, despite his height. Even hardcore Ibra fans acknowledge this as his major weakness. Typical Gil.

91 heading says otherwise