Where do Dortmund go from here?

+19
iftikhar
ioilersrock448
BarrileteCosmico
VendettaRed07
VanDeezNuts
Doc
Lord Spencer
zigra
zizzle
DeletedUser#1
free_cat
M99
ExtremistEnigma
Jay29
Onyx
S
Casciavit
rwo power
futbol
23 posters

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by futbol Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:14 pm

They have lost Kagawa, Götze, soon Lewandowski and Gündogan doesn't seem in a hurry to renew either. That is pretty much the core of their team. So where do they go from here? How far can Klopp's "heavy metal high tempo get in your face for 90 minutes" tactics carry them? Obviously you can't replace the afromentioned talents just like that, even with the best scouting network. Dortmund's combinational play in tight spaces has already suffered drastically IMO compared to 2 years ago. Something has to give. Do you see them challenging domestically in the next few years? In the Champions League?

And, on a side note, what do you make of Sheik ownership when you see a team like Dortmund? They did everything the correct way. They build a CL final team spending almost next to nothing, only through astute management and scouting. But their players all leave once the established teams come knocking, even to direct rivals. There isn't even a sporting reason like let's say RVP to United at the time. Dortmund were actually winning trophies. How can they possibly become a big fish themselves under such circumstances without a big investor offering the players big contracts like Manchester City do (City are a smaller club than Dortmund historically but their star players don't leave for obvious reasons).

futbol
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Effzeh Kölle
Posts : 11242
Join date : 2012-11-23

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by rwo power Wed Jan 08, 2014 2:23 pm

Well, people already started writing eulogies when Dortmund lost Lucas Barrios. Then they pronounced them dead when Nuri Sahin (then the best player of the whole Bundesliga) left.

Of course they are always in the need to keep up their top scouting, but ever since they returned from almost-bankruptcy in 2005, they managed to keep their stride, no matter what.

With the CEO team Watze/Zorc firmly in place and Kloppo contracted till 2018, I can't see Dortmund going down. They are getting better and better sponsor contracts, and mind you, they are by now the second most earning team in the BL. If they keep up their attractive brand of football, more sponsors and more money will follow, and then they will be able to offer their players more money, too. It just needs meticulous planning and some time.
rwo power
rwo power
Super Moderator
Super Moderator

Club Supported : Asante Kotoko
Posts : 20978
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by Casciavit Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:11 pm

Lots of posters predicted this situation to occur, only to be attacked by Bundeslegacy for supposedly being wrong.

Like Klopp said some teams are 'sexier' than BVB. Which is understandable, every player out there wants to play for the likes of Bayern, Barça and Madrid.

It's sad how a team like BVB build a great team only to lose it all after a year or two. And they didn't spend much, most of their players are the results of great scouting or products from the youth system.

Glad that I'm not the only one who has noticed there combinational play in tight spaces has suffered a lot. Think that has to do with replacing Mkhitaryan with Goetze, they replaced a creative genius with a player who's best asset is off the ball. Watching them play today, they create less chances and there isn't that much creativity in the final third.

I wonder how long it will take until Klopp gives in, what's the point of constantly building a new team only to lose your players after a year or 2?
Casciavit
Casciavit
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 9152
Join date : 2012-08-05

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by S Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:33 pm

Key thing is they still have enough talent to make CL every year and thereby collecting important revenue from CL.Obviously they are not going to make the latter rounds all the time,the competition is too fierce and increasing by the day ,but i think they'll be there or thereabouts.Maybe an Arsenal-esque period can follow for a few years,and in time with their financial situation improving ,they can perhaps cement an elite status in the football world.

But still,one cant say for sure though especially with foreign ownership is becoming a common thing nowadays.I dont think anyone saw Ligue 1 becoming this relevant 2-3 years ago for example,i certainly didnt.
S
S
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 28457
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by Onyx Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:36 pm

Dortmund didn't use the correct way to create stars. There is no correct way. There's nothing wrong with spending to buy players. It looks like Dortmund will eventually have to do that to stay at a high level. If they refuse to do that, then what happened to Arsenal could happen to them. Either that or they have to hope to create new stars.

They're lucky they're in a league that only has one elite team, so it's easier for them to beat inferior teams and top the table.

Onyx
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 40110
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by Jay29 Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:27 pm

The reality is that nowadays is that if you want to retain your best players you need money, success and ambition. The prospect of bigger wages, playing with the best players and a better chance of sustained success is too great a pull for most players to resist, and it seems the only way to counter that is to offer the same or hope that they remain loyal to you. To reach that point, you need consistent Champions League football and better commercial deals, and I think Dortmund will get there eventually.

In the mean time, I don't see Dortmund fading away that much. They managed to replace Barrios with Lewandowski, Sahin with Gundogan and Kagawa with Reus and still be successful. They're a wealthier and more attractive proposition now than they were then, too. So I see little reason why they can't rebuild a competitive team. It might not happen right away, but Klopp has already shown his ability to build teams. And from what I can see, there doesn't appear to be anyone else in Bundesliga that are threatening to catch up, other than, perhaps, Leverkusen.


Jay29
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Sevilla
Posts : 19996
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 29

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by ExtremistEnigma Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:34 pm

They're done.
ExtremistEnigma
ExtremistEnigma
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Lyon
Posts : 2535
Join date : 2013-02-27

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by M99 Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:46 pm

It's hard to say now. We heard this before but they always managed to replace their best players with even better ones. Lewandoski has left, Reus and Gundogan might leave too and they easily get over 70 million from these two. If they get adequate replacements with that money like they have done in the past, I think they are going to be fine.
M99
M99
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 30355
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 99

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by free_cat Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:49 pm

They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.
free_cat
free_cat
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by DeletedUser#1 Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:51 pm

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

Only as long as King Pep stays in Bavaria :bow:

DeletedUser#1
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Atletico Madrid
Posts : 5155
Join date : 2012-12-06

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by M99 Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:53 pm

free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?
M99
M99
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 30355
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 99

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by free_cat Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:55 pm

M99 wrote:
free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.
free_cat
free_cat
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Barcelona
Posts : 8546
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by zizzle Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:19 pm

See Arsenal.
zizzle
zizzle
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 6887
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 102

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by S Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:20 pm

free_cat wrote:
M99 wrote:
free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.
S
S
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 28457
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by zizzle Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:23 pm

S wrote:
free_cat wrote:
M99 wrote:

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.

Or its a smart management of resources where you sacrifice one goal to achieve another (a more important trophy in every way)
zizzle
zizzle
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 6887
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 102

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by zigra Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:26 pm

Dortmund has already the second highes revenue of all clubs in the Bundesliga. If Klopp and the management are as good as people always claim they should have absolutely no problem to finish 2nd or at least 3rd for the next few years. They need to play in the CL constantly and of course to reach at least the round of the last 16 constantly. If they can do that they'll grow financially futher. To be honest it's really not as hard as I often read. They are the second biggest club (revenue) and to grow all they need is really to finish 3rd or even 4th and play decent in Europe.
zigra
zigra
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Ajax
Posts : 4247
Join date : 2013-08-15

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by zigra Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:28 pm

zizzle wrote:
S wrote:
free_cat wrote:

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.

Or its a smart management of resources where you sacrifice one goal to achieve another (a more important trophy in every way)
Yeah of course lol.
They might say *bleep* the league once they are in the quarters or semis if they are out of the title race already like Chelsea but that's it.
zigra
zigra
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Ajax
Posts : 4247
Join date : 2013-08-15

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by S Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:30 pm

zizzle wrote:
S wrote:
free_cat wrote:

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Completely agreed.

Or its a smart management of resources where you sacrifice one goal to achieve another (a more important trophy in every way)

I am not denying that though.Dortmund should actually aim to do that.They have already(almost) managed it once.I dont think they have a problem in finishing in CL places regularly in the near future either so they should think about prioritizing CL a lot more.
S
S
Ballon d'Or Contender
Ballon d'Or Contender

Club Supported : Juventus
Posts : 28457
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 31

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by Lord Spencer Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:33 pm

free_cat wrote:
M99 wrote:
free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Well:

First, we don't compete in a two horse league like you do.

Second, from 2003-2007, we have been in 3 finals winning two, and one semi and another quarter final.

Third, after 2005, were competing with a squad spread thin and old because of Calciopoli.

Fourth, by all account, we were the team to beat in those years in Europe, and losing against the insanely deep Juve and then Inter in Serie A is no shame and does not degrade us being the greatest in Europe by any stretch.
Lord Spencer
Lord Spencer
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 4472
Join date : 2011-06-23

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by M99 Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:40 pm

free_cat wrote:
M99 wrote:
free_cat wrote:They should focus on trying to win the german cup and with a lot of fluke do an AC Milan and win a Champions League. The league is out of their aim now that Pep the Conqueror is in Germany. They will never win it again.

When did we win CL by fluke?

Well, IMO, teams that win the CL without winning their league can barely claim to be the best team in Europe, and Milan are experts in that.

Oh, I thought you meant Milan were lucky and won the CL tournament by fluke. I see your point even though I don't agree with it. As zizzle said, smart management of resources can make you win CL while sacrificing the league which will make you win a more important trophy while also gaining qualification to the next CL. Yeah Dortmund should try to do that, Bayern's dominance is not going to end any time soon, they should concentrate most on CL.
M99
M99
Forum Legend
Forum Legend

Club Supported : AC Milan
Posts : 30355
Join date : 2011-06-06
Age : 99

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by Doc Wed Jan 08, 2014 5:43 pm

I'm sure the Liberated Feline (and everyone else for that matter) knows very well how difficult it is to win both the domestic league AND a European title.
Doc
Doc
World Class Contributor
World Class Contributor

Club Supported : Real Madrid
Posts : 15821
Join date : 2011-06-05
Age : 35

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by VanDeezNuts Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:02 pm

It's a bit of a catch 22. They need the funds to keep their quality players under contract. Since they don't have the financial backing of the elite, they need to sell players to get those funds, but quality players will only stay (or new quality players will only come to the club) if they keep those quality players like Lewa, Gundogan etc.

VanDeezNuts
Fan Favorite
Fan Favorite

Club Supported : FC Basel
Posts : 5869
Join date : 2011-06-05

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by VendettaRed07 Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:43 pm

you have to spend or else you can't win. Or at least, not for long... Thats the game now and it is almost completely run by money.

lf you don't spend, you might best case scenario, achieve what dortmund did, but you can't maintain that for long..lts not long before the iron hammer of the rich teams comes slamming down just to remind people whos in charge.. They don't take kindly to teams like dortmund who think they can come in and take their titles and glory away from them..

lts impossible to keep reloading or keeping your current players happy without spending.

ln order to contend all the time they need more money to spend... Thats just how football is now.
VendettaRed07
VendettaRed07
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 3447
Join date : 2012-08-09

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by ExtremistEnigma Wed Jan 08, 2014 6:51 pm

VendettaRed07 wrote:you have to spend or else you can't win. Or at least, not for long... Thats the game now and it is almost completely run by money.

lf you don't spend, you might best case scenario, achieve what dortmund did, but you can't maintain that for long..lts not long before the iron hammer of the rich teams comes slamming down just to remind people whos in charge.. They don't take kindly to teams like dortmund who think they can come in and take their titles and glory away from them..

lts impossible to keep reloading or keeping your current players happy without spending.

ln order to contend all the time they need more money to spend... Thats just how football is now.
Might just be me, but somehow I'm sensing a lot of butthurt outta this post...
ExtremistEnigma
ExtremistEnigma
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Lyon
Posts : 2535
Join date : 2013-02-27

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by VendettaRed07 Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:28 pm

ExtremistEnigma wrote:
VendettaRed07 wrote:you have to spend or else you can't win. Or at least, not for long... Thats the game now and it is almost completely run by money.

lf you don't spend, you might best case scenario, achieve what dortmund did, but you can't maintain that for long..lts not long before the iron hammer of the rich teams comes slamming down just to remind people whos in charge.. They don't take kindly to teams like dortmund who think they can come in and take their titles and glory away from them..

lts impossible to keep reloading or keeping your current players happy without spending.

ln order to contend all the time they need more money to spend... Thats just how football is now.
Might just be me, but somehow I'm sensing a lot of butthurt outta this post...
l get why you would think, most seem to also agree my perspective is such here.. but just trust me that ts not butthurt.. lf you are talking about from an arsenal perspective.. lts not the same as dortmunds situation. Arsenal did not always use their resources to the best of their ability. Rather than rewarding first team players with high wages, often opted to keep around deadwood on highwages, and going for the two for the price of one type transfers, rather than forking out an extra two or three million in order to aquire a much better, higher rated player. Arsenals situation had more to do with mismanagement of available funds rather than the lack of it.

But let me just make it clear..there is nothing wrong with spending money, however there is something l suppose that feels unsportsman-like about the relation between a team like dortmund and bayern,

Dortmund is like a poor man who could never afford a shovel.. And spent his time digging through the dirt, scratching away in order to find diamonds hidden in the rough... He used his intelligence, despite the lack of tools to find hidden treasures where nobody else thought to look... But as he got better others started to notice his success.. And when he wasn't looking, a rich man hit him over the back of the head with a golden shovel and took all his findings as the poor man laid in the dirt unconscious..

ln this game and world of football, you need a shovel, not just to make it easier and faster to find the treasures around the world, but to also use as a tool defend yourself from others trying to take your findings.
VendettaRed07
VendettaRed07
First Team
First Team

Club Supported : Arsenal
Posts : 3447
Join date : 2012-08-09

Back to top Go down

Where do Dortmund go from here? Empty Re: Where do Dortmund go from here?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 2 1, 2  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum