Re: Luis Suarez V2

by McAgger Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:13 pm

I didn't read your freshness/fitness argument. Are you saying he's not fit/fresh?

And no playing well is not worse. First off you are ignoring the fact that Suarez does NOT play the same position or role that he did when he was scoring left and right. Sturridge was injured so everything was on Luis' shoulders to do during that 2-3 month period. He's now playing for the team to accommodate Sturridge up top.

And like I said, as long as Liverpool is winning, and Suarez is contributing to attack and to overall play, no one associated with our club or Luis Suarez himself care about a drought. Suarez is not a player that needs his ego stroked before the teams well being unlike some other superstars.

by BeautifulGame Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:15 pm

Harmonica wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
So there is no logic in the fitness/freshness edge argument?

He played in Confederations cup when most most PL players were resting.So yes there is no logic in that argument
Umm he was resting and training after that, when others carrying their teams. Did you miss that nugget of logic?

He was playing in june / july when others were restingSo he had just as much rest as others had this season.

by Harmonica Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:16 pm

BeautifulGame wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
McAgger wrote:Well you're argument has no basis because Suarez IS actually playing well. You're just looking at his goal stats and making an assumption that he hasn't been as good as when he was scoring left and right.

You said it yourself that today was the only match you watched, or something along those lines.
Playing well is still worse, much worse than he was playing couple months ago. Or are you saying that he's just as good as couple months ago?

So is there logic in the freshness/fitness edge argument?

I am not sure you have watched much of us this season.

He isnt scoring as many goals like months back becoz he is switched to the RW and Struddige is playing as Striker. That why he has 5 assists and 1 goal rather than 5 goals when he was playing as Striker.

Before Sturridge got injured, 9 goals in 7 games. After Sturridge came back 3 goals in 7 games. He didn't seem to have such problems when he had,

drumroll

, fitness and freshness edge.

by Harmonica Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:18 pm

McAgger wrote:I didn't read your freshness/fitness argument. Are you saying he's not fit/fresh?

And no playing well is not worse. First off you are ignoring the fact that Suarez does NOT play the same position or role that he did when he was scoring left and right. Sturridge was injured so everything was on Luis' shoulders to do during that 2-3 month period. He's now playing for the team to accommodate Sturridge up top.

And like I said, as long as Liverpool is winning, and Suarez is contributing to attack and to overall play, no one associated with our club or Luis Suarez himself care about a drought. Suarez is not a player that needs his ego stroked before the teams well being unlike some other superstars.

So if you don't even read the reasoning, how in earth can you say it has zero logic? And no, I'm not saying he's not fresh or fit, obviously as he's playing just 1 game per week without abroad games. My argument was on fitness/ freshness edge what he had when he came to the league after resting, not being injured many games.

Again, team winning isn't an indication of player quality.

by McAgger Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:29 pm

That's not the argument I was saying has zero logic. I'm talking about you're argument of Suarez not playing at high level. Which, like I already explained, couldn't possibly be further from the truth.

by BeautifulGame Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:31 pm

Harmonica wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
Playing well is still worse, much worse than he was playing couple months ago. Or are you saying that he's just as good as couple months ago?

So is there logic in the freshness/fitness edge argument?

I am not sure you have watched much of us this season.

He isnt scoring as many goals like months back becoz he is switched to the RW and Struddige is playing as Striker. That why he has 5 assists and 1 goal rather than 5 goals when he was playing as Striker.
Before Sturridge got injured, 9 goals in 7 games. After Sturridge came back 3 goals in 7 games. He didn't seem to have such problems when he had,

drumroll

, fitness and freshness edge.

Because we played 3-5-2 then and now playing 4-3-3. Seriously do u even know what u are arguing about Laughing

by Harmonica Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:36 pm

McAgger wrote:That's not the argument I was saying has zero logic. I'm talking about you're argument of Suarez not playing at high level. Which, like I already explained, couldn't possibly be further from the truth.

Where have I said he's not playing at high level?

by zigra Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:40 pm

Harmonica wrote:
zigra wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
What Messi has got to do with Suarez scoring? Messi has 8,78 average from the last 6 league games, and that's coming from a injury, playing multiple cup games and CL at the same time.

I already predicted the fitness/freshness edge disappearing months ago. It just takes logic to understand it, and accept it.

Wasn't it you who wrote this rating is better than oppinion?
Because if that was you as I think it was (or if you just think it's a good way to meassure a players performance) how could a player "be finished" by having an average of 8.35 over the last 6 games? Shouldn't that tell us that 8.35 isn't good? And if 8.35 isn't good wouldn't that tell us that Messi didn't have a good season so far? And what would it tell us about the rest of the league if 8.35 isn't good and no player apart from Suarez comes even close to an average 8.00 rating in the league?

Of course I think this rating is bullshit but Suarez has still been very good over the last 6 games. Don't even really know why we're looking at the last 6 games tbh. Why not the last 7 or the last 5?
It's all relative, as finished, as not being able to score, or not being clearly the best player in PL.

Suarez has 8.19 rating from the last six games, not 8.35. First you bring up these numbers (falsely) to support your claim, and then you dismiss them in the next paragraph? What the hell kind of weird argument is that?

Seems I got one numer wrong but 8.18 or 8.35 doesn't really change what I said.

And I brought it up for you. Just for you. Don't care about the rating nor do I need it to judge a performance.

by Harmonica Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:44 pm

BeautifulGame wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
BeautifulGame wrote:

I am not sure you have watched much of us this season.

He isnt scoring as many goals like months back becoz he is switched to the RW and Struddige is playing as Striker. That why he has 5 assists and 1 goal rather than 5 goals when he was playing as Striker.
Before Sturridge got injured, 9 goals in 7 games. After Sturridge came back 3 goals in 7 games. He didn't seem to have such problems when he had,

drumroll

, fitness and freshness edge.

Because we played 3-5-2 then and now playing 4-3-3. Seriously do u even know what u are arguing about

Oh that must be it. Before

40 shots 16 in target 9 goals in 7 games, after
35 shots 13 in target 3 goals in 7 games

He had tons of space and time to score today, and had awful finishing. Kind of what he was before he got banned and took a vacation.

by Harmonica Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:45 pm

zigra wrote:
Harmonica wrote:
zigra wrote:

Wasn't it you who wrote this rating is better than oppinion?
Because if that was you as I think it was (or if you just think it's a good way to meassure a players performance) how could a player "be finished" by having an average of 8.35 over the last 6 games? Shouldn't that tell us that 8.35 isn't good? And if 8.35 isn't good wouldn't that tell us that Messi didn't have a good season so far? And what would it tell us about the rest of the league if 8.35 isn't good and no player apart from Suarez comes even close to an average 8.00 rating in the league?

Of course I think this rating is bullshit but Suarez has still been very good over the last 6 games. Don't even really know why we're looking at the last 6 games tbh. Why not the last 7 or the last 5?
It's all relative, as finished, as not being able to score, or not being clearly the best player in PL.

Suarez has 8.19 rating from the last six games, not 8.35. First you bring up these numbers (falsely) to support your claim, and then you dismiss them in the next paragraph? What the hell kind of weird argument is that?

Seems I got one numer wrong but 8.18 or 8.35 doesn't really change what I said.

And I brought it up for you. Just for you. Don't care about the rating nor do I need it to judge a performance.

Do you often use arguments that you don't yourself agree in debate?

by FennecFox7 Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:06 pm

Numbers aren't everything for gods sake.. stop with this nonsense

by iftikhar Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:13 pm

Hermione is just trying to reach 5000-post mark. Thumbs up

by Highburied Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:13 pm

Will end up at Real Madrid.

by Red Alert Mon Feb 24, 2014 1:59 am

>Has the most goals in the league with 23, 6 more than the second highest in Sturridge.
>Joint top "assist" leader in the league with 9

Hasn't scored in a few games. Result? On the decline. Laughing

by Red Alert Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:01 am

Highburied wrote:Will end up at Real Madrid.

We won't sell him for anything under 100 million pounds.

by Highburied Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:15 am

He is no Ronaldo.

Oh my Lawd.

by Robespierre Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:20 am

the assist for Sturridge was amazing.
He can be decisive also when he doesn't score.
And this his attitude is admirable, he is definitely became a leader.Two years ago he was selfish.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:21 am

@Harmonica, your fitness edge argument isnt a bad one, but still, the rate at which he was scoring was still quite brutal. Before Sturridge was injured, Pool were playing 352 with both Sturridge and Suarez up front, he was more often in goalscoring positions and that explains why he did well. Now he is playing on the right wing in a 433 so it's not quite the same anymore.

That being said, his form has dipped and his finishing has gone to shit again. He did have chances yesterday, and even in cup vs Arsenal he bottled some shots.

by stevieg8 Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:27 am

Harmonica, the problem with your argument is that your basic premise is unsound. You're trying to answer a question which doesn't make sense - "Why is Suarez not playing well?" isn't a legitimate conversation starter, because he IS playing well.

If he wasn't, then the fitness/fatigue reasoning would make sense. But the only impact we've seen on his game has been his scoring record, and we've already explained that.

The point of my argument was never that the team performance informs the individual performance, I'm not sure how to make that any more clear. Hopefully by spelling it out for you in very, very plain English clears things up.

by Red Alert Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:27 am

Robespierre wrote:the assist for Sturridge was amazing.
He can be decisive also when he doesn't score.
And this his attitude is admirable, he is definitely became a leader.Two years ago he was selfish.

Had every right to be selfish if you saw who he was playing with 2 years ago.

by Curtinho Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:07 pm

Suarez has been fine. He's obviously not playing to the level that he was when he was scoring at a pace that eclipsed the likes of Messi and Ronaldo, but he's still providing energy, leadership and dangerous scoring opportunities while on the pitch. His assist to Sturridge yesterday was sublime and once he finds the back of the net again I feel he will probably score in bunches.

I'm not convinced he will be a long term fixture in Liverpool though. I think he will never be worth more than he will be this summer and with the emergence of Sturridge and Sterling as well as the money that would come in from a Suarez transfer...he could easily be gone CL spot or not.

by McAgger Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:57 am

by Highburied Sun Mar 09, 2014 11:57 am

by chad4401 Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:29 pm

seriously to all pool fans suarez is not better than cr or messi stop it, its getting sad if you manage to hold onto him then lets see those cl stats Laughing

.

by stevieg8 Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:00 pm

Excellent argument, Chad, thank you for contributing to the discussion.

I love how all discussion on this forum amounts to "here's my opinion, you're dumb if you don't agree, here's no evidence to support it, end of."

by ExtremistEnigma Sun Mar 09, 2014 6:46 pm

chad4401 wrote: seriously to all pool fans suarez is not better than cr or messi stop it, its getting sad if you manage to hold onto him then lets see those cl stats .

dem comprehension skills

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