Did SAF do his successor any favours?

This is not genuinely not intended as a troll thread...

After today.. Do any of you feel like SAF did your club a slight injustice by leaving you with such a poor squad though?... Only SAF was capable of leading your squad last season to a championship..but surely he knew this?

I mean you basically have the same squad you had last season.. a squad that comprehensively won the league.. I always thought last season was both a sad indictment of the City and Chelsea while also reflected on SAF brilliantly as a manager...

I do understand that Moyes' transfer window was a bitter failure.. But I do also feel like signings (with the exception of RVP) have been pretty uninspired for the final years of SAF's tenure anyway.. Shouldn't SAF have brought in some real talent and set the team up for a new era.. I am not convinced he did that.. With the exception of De Gea and RVP..

Moyes had a full summer window to do something about the squad. I think Ferguson probably knew that the squad needed some changes, that one cycle had reached its peak, but surely he cannot be actually blamed after winning the league!

It's really Moyes' failure that he didn't do more business in the summer, both in and out. And how narrow-sighted can managers be? When Rodgers joined Liverpool, his first signings were two of his ex-players, Allen and Borini, both of whom have failed to improve our team. Moyes joins United and buys his ex-player Fellaini (and tries to buy Baines) and it doesn't seem to work out in United's favour. It's criminally bad management that you join a big club and have a fair bit of money to spend, but can only think "well, those players did a good job for me in the past, I'll just buy them".

it's nice that you intend this not genuinely not as a troll thread though.

Moyes arguably didn't show any great ambition to drastically overhaul the team in summer.

Mind you, he was offered Özil eary in July.

So if anything, the negative part of Ferguson's legacy is that he seems to have inspired too much awe and veneration for Moyes to dare to change much quickly.

Yes and no.

I don't think any realistic United fan thought we'd be as good as last season but also that we shouldn't be midtable either.

There's about 7 to 8 United players that have just not performed:
Buttner
Young
Valencia
Welbeck
Fellaini
Anderson
Cleverley

Cleverley, at least can do a decent job, doesn't do anything fantastic but he keeps the ball moving and is actual mobile unlike Fellaini. Welbeck, I just don't know he's not convincing as a winger nor as a striker. He does have his moments, however.

Players that should get more of a chance:
Nani
Fabio
Kagawa (in his preferred role when RVP or Rooney are injured)

The first two have had spells of injury and inconsistent form, but I truly believe given consistent playing time they will perform. For Kagawa, everyone knows he's the shit.

The main problem hasn't been entirely the squad, it's the players he picks e.g. against Tottenham we scored a penalty and we were lucky for the ball to rebound off to Rooney to score a tap in. Clearly there was a lack creativity, Moyes only makes changes in the 80th minute there's not enough time for the subs to make an impact. That's not the worst part he plays the same front four against Everton. Against Tottenham, Valencia made 1 successful cross out of 11, that's absolutely ridiculous. Which makes you ask why he's playing? It's obviously not for his attacking attributes, because he can't cross and he can't beat a man, so is Moyes using him because he's more defensively capable than someone like Nani? Which makes it even more annoying, is we're playing at home and we worry more about the other team than they worry about us.

What SAF can however be blamed on, is the failure to buy a CM for so many years. He has invested in the future for that position, Nick Powell, but he's not quite ready yet. The small decision of not playing Pogba against Blackburn is haunting us, though. And, the fact that it takes so longggg to get rid of a player, how long as Ando played shite yet is still here?

So to conclude, yes there is some truly bad players in the squad, but there is also some really good ones too. More than the average fan gives us credit for.

Hapless_Hans wrote:it's nice that you intend this not genuinely not as a troll thread though.

Moyes arguably didn't show any great ambition to drastically overhaul the team in summer.

Mind you, he was offered Özil eary in July.

So if anything, the negative part of Ferguson's legacy is that he seems to have inspired too much awe and veneration for Moyes to dare to change much quickly.

We have Rooney and Kagawa that can play as the No. 10. Not buying Ozil was the correct decision.

Art Morte wrote:Moyes had a full summer window to do something about the squad. I think Ferguson probably knew that the squad needed some changes, that one cycle had reached its peak, but surely he cannot be actually blamed after winning the league!

It's really Moyes' failure that he didn't do more business in the summer, both in and out. And how narrow-sighted can managers be? When Rodgers joined Liverpool, his first signings were two of his ex-players, Allen and Borini, both of whom have failed to improve our team. Moyes joins United and buys his ex-player Fellaini (and tries to buy Baines) and it doesn't seem to work out in United's favour. It's criminally bad management that you join a big club and have a fair bit of money to spend, but can only think "well, those players did a good job for me in the past, I'll just buy them".  

Agreed that Moyes is to blame and I'm not implying that he should be excused from his mistakes.. I just feel like the onus was on Moyes to basically fill a number of holes which wasn't that easy to do.. admittedly he didn't really do anything at all and failed to fill any of those holes.. but I think in when I look to MU fans who admit they expected bad but got a lot worse, I think that deficit in what the expectations were to how the season has transpired so far may be partly due to SAF not adequately fulfilling his role in easing that transition...

Busby Babe wrote:Yes and no.

I don't think any realistic United fan thought we'd be as good as last season but also that we shouldn't be midtable either.

There's about 7 to 8 United players that have just not performed:
Buttner
Young
Valencia
Welbeck
Fellaini
Anderson
Cleverley

Cleverley, at least can do a decent job, doesn't do anything fantastic but he keeps the ball moving and is actual mobile unlike Fellaini. Welbeck, I just don't know he's not convincing as a winger nor as a striker. He does have his moments, however.

Players that should get more of a chance:
Nani
Fabio
Kagawa (in his preferred role when RVP or Rooney are injured)

The first two have had spells of injury and inconsistent form, but I truly believe given consistent playing time they will perform. For Kagawa, everyone knows he's the shit.

The main problem hasn't been entirely the squad, it's the players he picks e.g. against Tottenham we scored a penalty and we were lucky for the ball to rebound off to Rooney to score a tap in. Clearly there was a lack creativity, Moyes only makes changes in the 80th minute there's not enough time for the subs to make an impact. That's not the worst part he plays the same front four against Everton. Against Tottenham, Valencia made 1 successful cross out of 11, that's absolutely ridiculous. Which makes you ask why he's playing? It's obviously not for his attacking attributes, because he can't cross and he can't beat a man, so is Moyes using him because he's more defensively capable than someone like Nani? Which makes it even more annoying, is we're playing at home and we worry more about the other team than they worry about us.

What SAF can however be blamed on, is the failure to buy a CM for so many years. He has invested in the future for that position, Nick Powell, but he's not quite ready yet. The small decision of not playing Pogba against Blackburn is haunting us, though. And, the fact that it takes so longggg to get rid of a player, how long as Ando played shite yet is still here?

So to conclude, yes there is some truly bad players in the squad, but there is also some really good ones too. More than the average fan gives us credit for.

I do agree that he has been making some questionable decisions tactically.. particularly in squad selection.. It is all too apparent he hasn't quite figured out how to get the best out of his players and doesn't even know how to utilize one of his most important ones.. But this can take time for any manager who has taken on a new squad.. Hindsight always amplifies oversights and tactical errors when things go bad.

doesn't matter what Moyes was left with, he had a whole summer to get players he needed and only brought in bloody Fellaini, the complete opposite of what we needed, we need creative mobile midfielders, people that can carry the ball in midfield and drive forward with it. Rooney is asked to do all the creating he gets the ball and his only options are the wingers or the 1 striker, never get runs from midfield to cut open defences, are midfielders sit back never get into the box.


Thiago, Herrera would of been perfect buys.....

Its totally Moyes who should take the blame. Fergie has already supplied long term replacements like for eg.
1.Fabio for Evra
2.Zaha for Valencia
3.Powell (who should not have loaned out imo considering our eternally shite midfield this season) for Carrick
4.Kagawa for rooney

Moyes is simply refusing to play zaha and more importantly fabio which now a point has reached where we can say is simply unacceptable.

Only good things Moyes has done so far are convincing rooney to stay and bringing in januzaj into the setup.

a huge overhaul must be performed at the earliest opportunity now by flushing out all these useless craps, kind of players who wouldnt have even made into the bench if they were in other top teams

cleverly - very very substandard and at maximum average. dont deserve to play for a club like united.

welbeck - 0 intelligence and finishing, neither a striker nor a winger and only knows to run around like a chicken

young - same as welbeck in terms of ability, but in this case the guy who knows his position. but should be the one who must be shown the door first as that will save the club a great deal in wages as the idiot eats 130k a week.

buttner - another waste who offers nothing both in offence and more importantly in defence

anderson - fat lazy simpleton who too dont deserve to play for us.

valencia - the kind of chances this guy is getting and the kinda output he is coming up with is shocking to see the least. may be can be used as a full back in the long run. but that will again deprive opportunities for the da silva bros, a prospect i dont like. so flush him out too.

make ferdinand and giggs retire and next season the team should look like this (with our current crop of players, if new additions are made in winter or summer its fine )

---------de gea
rafael-jones -evans-fabio
zaha-carrick-powell-zanuzaj
------rooney (2nd option - kagawa )
--------rvp (2nd option - chicha)

Busby Babe wrote:



The first two have had spells of injury and inconsistent form, but I truly believe given consistent playing time they will perform. For Kagawa, everyone knows he's the shit.

.

kagawa is shit ??
not at all.

kagawa is quality.
only on 2 or 3 occasions kagawa was played in his preferred no.10 by moyes and even in the last 2 games thanks to that non performing beep called wlebeck kagawa was moved out of position to left (after 20 mins in spurs game and from the 2nd half start in everton game) where it is time and again proven he is ineffectual as he is never a winger in the first place.
true he is finding hard to adjust to the premier league life but he is certainly improving which was evident in that everton match where he easily was one of the best players on the pitch until that moronic moyes took him off.
more he is played (in his natural position) he will start to realise his enormous potential.

Lumiere_Blanche wrote:

Busby Babe wrote:



The first two have had spells of injury and inconsistent form, but I truly believe given consistent playing time they will perform. For Kagawa, everyone knows he's the shit.

.

kagawa is shit ??
not at all.

kagawa is quality.
only on 2 or 3 occasions kagawa was played in his preferred no.10 by moyes and even in the last 2 games thanks to that non performing beep called wlebeck kagawa was moved out of position to left (after 20 mins in spurs game and from the 2nd half start in everton game) where it is time and again proven he is ineffectual as he is never a winger in the first place.
true he is finding hard to adjust to the premier league life but he is certainly improving which was evident in that everton match where he easily was one of the best players on the pitch until that moronic moyes took him off.
more he is played (in his natural position) he will start to realise his enormous potential.

No, not at all Lumiere. I think he's quite the opposite. I meant 'the shit' as in awesome, not rubbish.

He fcked over Moyes by neglecting that dogshet MF for many years, even when the problem was glaring right in front of his eyes.

Mediocrity is polished to be even more mediocre by mediocre management.

That's a fact.

Shit midfield players (of mediocre standard) become even more mediocre trained by mediocre staffs.

RED wrote:He fcked over Moyes by neglecting that dogshet MF for many years, even when the problem was glaring right in front of his eyes.

This is kind of how I feel. It's been clear your midfield has needed strengthening for a few years in my opinion... Yet nothing was done about it...

I don't doubt for a second that Moyes takes the brunt of the blame and I'm not even necessarily saying SAF deserves any at all. He did his job, ended his career on a high and moved on as he is perfectly entitled to do.. I just feel like he could have done more. He obviously knew that Moyes would need time to adapt to this level of coaching and a completely new level of expectations as was evident in his farewell speech.. if he knew that why wouldn't he do his utmost to make things easier for him in the interest of the club. Oversight? Purely circumstantial? Undue belief in the squads capabilities without him? Dare I say egomania?

SAF did not favors at all to his successor. He squeezed as much as he could with an aging squad and didn't incorporate any kids at all for the future... that led to the departures of Pogba and others. He also didn't sign any prospects.

What he left was a team that was old and destined to decline. The only good young player on the team is Rafael.

sportsczy wrote:SAF did not favors at all to his successor.  He squeezed as much as he could with an aging squad and didn't incorporate any kids at all for the future... that led to the departures of Pogba and others.  He also didn't sign any prospects.

What he left was a team that was old and destined to decline.  The only good young player on the team is Rafael.

SAF incorporated and played with tons of youngsters...

Zaha (21), Jones (21), De Gea (23), Rafael & Fabio (23), Welbeck (23), Smalling (24), Buttner (24), Cleverley (24), Kagawa (24), Evans (25), Anderson (25) and Chicharito (25) are all 25 or under and most had plenty of game time under SAF.

Nani (27), Valencia (28), Young (28), Rooney 28), Fletcher (29), Lindegaard (29), Van Persie (30) are all 30 or under and age footballers usually have their peak years at.

Vidic (32), Evra (32), Carrick (32), Ferdinand (35), Giggs (40) are the only players over 30 at United.

That is 5 players over 30...Old team I am not going to argue the quality of all those youngsters and players,some might be crap but saying he squeezed and aging squad and left no youngsters is downright ridiculous.

Fact is,SAF made it work with those same players.Moyes does not....

Moyes had more then enough time to play with his team over the summer and look at new players.
instead he chose to dream about Cesc, Iniesta and other people out of his reach.

Donuts wrote:Moyes had more then enough time to play with his team over the summer and look at new players.
instead he chose to dream about Cesc, Iniesta and other people out of his reach.

yep. unfortunately true.

lets see what he does to rectify his mistake in the winter window. If he fails again, good bye Champions league football