Messi or Ronaldinho ?

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Messi or Ronaldinho ? Empty Messi or Ronaldinho ?

Post by Khaled Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:21 pm

Both are Barca legends..
we Love them BOTH..
But who is better in your opinion & Why?


P.S: A Question JUST for Barca Fans!
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Post by Albiceleste Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:38 pm

Messi

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Post by Messi Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:16 pm

I think ronaldiniho was better than messi. He can do so many tricks. Some say we won't even see most of his tricks.
Ronaldiniho had this aura around him...that made everyone love him even rivals.
I'm leaning towards ronaldiniho because I truly miss him.
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Post by Khaled Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:18 pm

Both are Barca Legends no doubt, we love them both, we will always be remembered by Barca fans..

- I think Messi is more effective, while Ronaldinho is the more freestyle player , who always wants to make a pass w score a goal in style (ex: no look pass..), we all loved Ronaldinho & he attracts the attention of all football fans.. but he used to lose the ball sometime becuz of these tricks.. its great to watc, but football wise, its less effective.. Both are great dribblers, but Messi is also better/more effective.. Ronaldinho used to dribble 2 or 3 player, while Messi can dribble 4, 5 & sometimes he dribbled 6 players...

- Messi is a better finisher, his numbers speak for itself, 100 Goals in last 104 matches for Barca while Ronaldinho who scored gd amount of goals for Barca could reach Messi's effectivness.. Ronadinho who scored about 107 Goals in 5 season which is very gd number.. his goal sin bernabeu (0-3) or his goal against chelsea (4-2 lose, 2004-2005) one of his last goals @ barca double kick vs villareal (4-0) , but Messi scored 180 goals in his 6 seasons for Barca "first team"..
best Goals vs Getafe(5-2), Arsenal super hattrick(4-1), hatrick vs realmadrid @ 19 years (3-3), his brilliant goal against Madrid (0-2 bernabeu) etc..

Messi Wins!

- Playmaking wise.. Ronaldinho overall is better he always came up with magical passes/assists.. Messi is improving & he can still improve.. his making more assist every year..
18 Assist in 2008/2009
14 Assists in 2009/2010
25 Assist in 2010/2010 ( 28 according to transfermarkt.de)
total of about 75 in 269 matches!
alot of great through passes including 2 assist in the 5-0 classico or for Villa 2-1 away again which we lost against arsenal etc..

compared to Ronaldinho who made total of 80 Assists in 254 matches.. one of the best assist i remember, in his first season that assist to xavi in the classico,another one was similiar the assist for Messi's first goal against Albacete Smile

Ronaldinho edges Messi!

- Ronaldinho defending vs Messi's defending.. one of the weak points Ronaldinho had, he didn't defend/press & whenever he losses the ball hedon't go back to recover it.. Messi is better i@ this point!

- Until now Messi has played 6 Seasons @ Barca.. in 5/6 he was considered a Top 3 player in the world
2006/2007: 3rd behind Kaka(1) & Cr7(2)!
2007/2008: 2nd behind Cr7(1)
2008/2009: 1st
2009/2010: 1st
2010/2011: in his way to win it!!

While Ronaldinho wasn't consistent like Messi is.. he was great between 2003 & 2006, but than had a drop in his level @ just 26/27.. becuz of his life out side the pitch, he destroyed himself...

Conclucion: Both are Legends, every player had his times.. but Messi although he has alot of time improve, already achieved more than Ronaldinho, the only thing left for Messi is Wc, which Ronaldinho did win it in 2002, but Club Level Messi gave Barca more...


...
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Post by sagnik92 Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:35 pm

one yr ago we started the same thread and ronaldinho had the advantage.

after 28th may i think everyone should agree its messi.
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Post by bazinga Sun Jul 10, 2011 5:44 pm

I don't think there should be any doubt that Messi has been much better for Barcelona now than any other player ever was. He has proved it beyond reproach over the past 5 years now.

Messi == Best Barca Player Ever IMHO.
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Post by messixaviesta Sun Jul 10, 2011 6:02 pm

We have discussed this before. In short here is what I think was the conclusion of the debate as a by and large consensus and I also agree with it almost completely. A few individuals of course still differ.

In terms of overall value Messi is superior simply because his consistency levels are unmatchable and his contribution to the team in terms of the number of goals he scores and creates is beyond belief. However when playing at their very best Ronaldinho has a slight edge. That is because he had that extra bit of imagination and unpredictability about him that would make him a little more likely to break an impossible situation in a game than Messi.

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Post by free_cat Sun Jul 10, 2011 10:40 pm

Those who think Ronnie is better should go and watch some Rijkaard era games. I watched Barça - Benfica 05-06 (2-0) the other day, and there's no comparison at all.

Messi is better in almost everything.

Better dribler, better scorer, better passer, more inteligent player, better holding the ball, has more creativity, much, much more consistent.

He is just better than Ronaldinho, both at his peak. And off course, he has been better for Barcelona.

Ronaldinho was flashier and had better headers and free-kicks.
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Post by ChollaVille Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:06 pm

Messi > Rivaldo > Ronaldinho

Ronaldinho was showman, one of the greatest players ever.
Rivaldo was Barca in his time, he was the team, with retarded coaches and zero defense, also he scored more goals than Ronaldnho in same time priod (5yrs), and Ronaldnho had better team around himself.
Messi is simple better player, he is not attractive like Ronaldinho or Rivaldo, but he is better player.
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Post by Ganso Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:10 pm

@ChollaVille wrote:Messi > Rivaldo > Ronaldinho

Ronaldinho was showman, one of the greatest players ever.
Rivaldo was Barca in his time, he was the team, with retarded coaches and zero defense, also he scored more goals than Ronaldnho in same time priod (5yrs), and Ronaldnho had better team around himself.
Messi is simple better player, he is not attractive like Ronaldinho or Rivaldo, but he is better player.
by your logic,doesnt it go like rivaldo>Messi>Ronaldinho then,since messi has the best barca team ever around him?
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:18 pm

@free_cat wrote:Those who think Ronnie is better should go and watch some Rijkaard era games. I watched Barça - Benfica 05-06 (2-0) the other day, and there's no comparison at all.

Messi is better in almost everything.

Better dribler, better scorer, better passer, more inteligent player, better holding the ball, has more creativity, much, much more consistent.

He is just better than Ronaldinho, both at his peak. And off course, he has been better for Barcelona.

Ronaldinho was flashier and had better headers and free-kicks.

Disagree there and dribbling is debatable.
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Post by billionmillion Sun Jul 10, 2011 11:31 pm

1)At titles Messi owns Ronaldinho
2)Football abilites, well things that Messi can do Ronaldinho cant. Nobody can score Messi's solo goals (except maybe Maradona). Messi can do things by himself, he can score or create danger without a help, Ronaldinho dont it, he passes the ball so second person scores or creates danger. Running Messi is more dangerous for defenders than Passing Ronaldinho. not to mention messi's intelligent shoots and goals
3)Entertainment - Ronaldinho owns here everyone (Thats the main reason people miss him and rate him high)

About Rivaldo, I watched Rivaldo live, he was not better than Ronaldinho, but he was better than Figo and maybe Zidane
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Post by ChollaVille Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:45 am

@Ganso wrote:
@ChollaVille wrote:Messi > Rivaldo > Ronaldinho

Ronaldinho was showman, one of the greatest players ever.
Rivaldo was Barca in his time, he was the team, with retarded coaches and zero defense, also he scored more goals than Ronaldnho in same time priod (5yrs), and Ronaldnho had better team around himself.
Messi is simple better player, he is not attractive like Ronaldinho or Rivaldo, but he is better player.
by your logic,doesnt it go like rivaldo>Messi>Ronaldinho then,since messi has the best barca team ever around him?

LOL where did you find taht I rate tham by that logic? It is just one of the rating subjects.
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Post by Messi Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:39 am

@billionmillion wrote:1)At titles Messi owns Ronaldinho
2)Football abilites, well things that Messi can do Ronaldinho cant. Nobody can score Messi's solo goals (except maybe Maradona). Messi can do things by himself, he can score or create danger without a help, Ronaldinho dont it, he passes the ball so second person scores or creates danger. Running Messi is more dangerous for defenders than Passing Ronaldinho. not to mention messi's intelligent shoots and goals
Those dam parties and women, ronaldiniho could be still playing with barca he's only xavis age.
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Post by BiasedMilanFan3 Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:22 am

Ronaldinho was definitely more entertaining to watch

But if we're talking whose BETTER overall, in my opinion, Messi is better
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Post by Albiceleste Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:42 am

@Messi wrote:I think ronaldiniho was better than messi. He can do so many tricks. Some say we won't even see most of his tricks.
What's the point of these 'tricks'? To get past your opponent, Messi cuts the bullsh*t and just gets past them with his amazing agility and acceleration and his ability to change direction so quickly, watch him in slow motion, it's crazy.

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Post by Messi Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:30 am

Lionel Messi wrote:
@Messi wrote:I think ronaldiniho was better than messi. He can do so many tricks. Some say we won't even see most of his tricks.
What's the point of these 'tricks'? To get past your opponent, Messi cuts the bullsh*t and just gets past them with his amazing agility and acceleration and his ability to change direction so quickly, watch him in slow motion, it's crazy.
Entertainment.
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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:33 am

@ChollaVille wrote:Messi > Rivaldo > Ronaldinho

cholla, where do you put Ronaldo, the original one, in this inequation?


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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:37 am

Immaculate_Mole wrote:
@free_cat wrote:
Better dribler, better scorer, better passer, more inteligent player, better holding the ball, has more creativity, much, much more consistent.
Disagree there and dribbling is debatable.

mole and cat, here's what I think.

Better dribbler - Messi ( almost unquestionable )
Better scorer - Messi ( unquestionable )
Better passer - Hard to decide as both are very good but maybe Ronaldinho could edge it on long passes
More intelligent player - Almost equal. I can't decide.
Better holding the ball - Both in different ways. Messi has better close control but Ronaldinho could hold it better in different positions ( e.g. aerially ) or in other words was a little more technically complete.
More creativity - Ronaldinho
More consistent - Messi ( by a country mile - both for entire 90 minutes and from match to match )


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Post by billy_gr Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:36 am


Ronnie was by far the most entertaining footballer I’ve seen.
On the other hand, Messi is more efficient and he seems to be more down to earth and low profile which will help him have a longer top level career
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Post by free_cat Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:00 am

@messixaviesta wrote:
Immaculate_Mole wrote:
@free_cat wrote:
Better dribler, better scorer, better passer, more inteligent player, better holding the ball, has more creativity, much, much more consistent.
Disagree there and dribbling is debatable.

mole and cat, here's what I think.

Better dribbler - Messi ( almost unquestionable )
Better scorer - Messi ( unquestionable )
Better passer - Hard to decide as both are very good but maybe Ronaldinho could edge it on long passes
More intelligent player - Almost equal. I can't decide.
Better holding the ball - Both in different ways. Messi has better close control but Ronaldinho could hold it better in different positions ( e.g. aerially ) or in other words was a little more technically complete.
More creativity - Ronaldinho
More consistent - Messi ( by a country mile - both for entire 90 minutes and from match to match )


I agree that in passing terms, they are possibly even, and Ronaldinho was better holding the ball in certain situations.
But Messi is the better dribler, more intelligent (he has very good positioning and reads the game very well, while Ronaldinho although still intelligent on field, did more dumb things), and finally, Messi has more creativity. Come one, he is involved in more than 66% of Barça's goals, thus creating them. Has to be more creative than Ronaldinho or anyone else.
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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:28 am

@free_cat wrote:
I agree that in passing terms, they are possibly even, and Ronaldinho was better holding the ball in certain situations.
But Messi is the better dribler, more intelligent (he has very good positioning and reads the game very well, while Ronaldinho although still intelligent on field, did more dumb things), and finally, Messi has more creativity. Come one, he is involved in more than 66% of Barça's goals, thus creating them. Has to be more creative than Ronaldinho or anyone else.

cat, interesting comments. When I said intelligent it was strictly on the pitch because as far as off the pitch intelligence goes it's a no contest. Smile Finally about creativity you do have a point. What some of us including myself perhaps meant was that Ronaldinho was more likely to come up with something that would catch you totally unaware than Messi is. Messi rarely does something that you don't expect him to do. It's just that he does it so well that you can't stop him. Ronaldinho could catch you totally unaware - say that chipped goal against Chelsea which the world will never stop talking about or at times when you expect him to make a forward pass or dribble and he backheels the ball to someone causing the game to move in another direction leaving you dumbfounded. The wild unpredictability and imagination that he had we have not seen in a long time. Maybe the only player who can really be compared with him on this aspect is the original Ronaldo. Rivaldo too could come close. I include some sheer acts of jugglery here such as Ronaldo kicking the ball up in the air, running some distance, receiving it again and then scoring a goal or Rivaldo receiving the ball on his right foot and in one swift motion moving it to his left and the next second it's in goal. You just can't teach these things or even describe them appropriately. So to say there is something Brazilian about this quality. In more scientific terms maybe I can call it lateral thinking. When the situation is too tight and every conventional way of solving the problem is failing there is that individual who thinks totally out of the box. Ronaldinho was more that kind of individual than Messi is and that's why dani called him the ultimate game breaker I suppose.



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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:51 am

So regardless of our opinions and aspect wise comparisons, who will be rated higher in history? Here's my take.

Both are dead certainties to make an all time top hundred and likely much more but who will be ranked higher.

If Messi does nothing of note internationally then I think Ronaldinho will be rated higher. While Messi is already higher on club achievements let's look at what Ronaldinho achieved in international football. He won WC 2002 as a young boy. He was not the team's main star and was thus not under heavy pressure. He was largely in the shadow of Ronaldo and Rivaldo. However he did win the world cup and he did play very well in that tournament. The other significant achievement that comes to mind is Confed Cup 2005 in which he was the man of the match in the final with a jaw dropping performance that destroyed Riquelme's Argentina and was a key player in the rest of the tournament. Other than this he also won both the Copa America and the Confed Cup in 1999. In the latter he was brilliant and was chosen as the best player. While considering all that we also must mention that he will lose points for being an abysmal failure at WC 2006 when the whole nation relied on him as the team's main star.

On the other hand if Messi has some reasonable amount of success in international football then considering his greater club achievements and consistency and longevity, it is Messi who will be ranked higher.

Let's wait and watch till Messi's career winds down.

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Post by billionmillion Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:11 am

Ronaldinho is more unpredictable, but this doesnt mean that he is more efficent or better. Still teams put more players to mark Messi,

This is a predictable messi, still he tricks 5-6 players (unpredictable ronaldinho cant do it)



in that position ronaldinho could not make an unpredictable pass or trick because everyone is marked. so what you need there is messi's abilities. there are different positions and ways to make danger but i think messi's way is more dangerous even if you call it predictable
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Post by messixaviesta Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:55 pm

I understand billion. I never said Ronaldinho is the better player - only that he is better in one or two aspects.

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