Gary Neville: We've forgotten just what made British football great

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Gary Neville: We've forgotten just what made British football great Empty Gary Neville: We've forgotten just what made British football great

Post by Pip Mon Oct 07, 2013 11:47 pm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2446238/GARY-NEVILLE-Weve-forgotten-just-British-football-great.html

Excerpt:
Back when I was playing for Manchester United’s youth team, I could always hear the voices of our coaches, Nobby Stiles and Eric Harrison, on the touchline delivering short, sharp but consistent messages: ‘Get to the ball quickly! Win it back! Get to him! Shift it quickly! Move!’

Lots of English coaches would have been the same. They were characteristics of our game, the attributes that made up the British footballing identity: the speed of the play, the tempo of passing, sprinting to the ball and getting out of the box quickly to play offside. Values that were drilled into you.
In terms of the actual argument that Neville was trying to convey, it was about as accurate as Carragher's ramblings about Gerrard/Lampard/Scholes. This truly is an incredible article (in a negative way), as Neville is claiming that all the facets of play from Barcelona, Bayern, and Dortmund come from English football. Some of it is just plain incorrect, too.

Your thoughts?

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Post by zizzle Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:07 am

when was British football great anyway ?
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Post by jibers Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:18 am

zizzle wrote:when was British football great anyway ?
When Liverpool was raping Europe and when the EPl was putting 3 teams in the cl semis for 3 years in a row...


O and we invented football....so yea...
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Post by Pip Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:27 am

jibers wrote:
zizzle wrote:when was British football great anyway ?
When Liverpool was raping Europe and when the EPl was putting 3 teams in the cl semis for 3 years in a row...


O and we invented football....so yea...
How many winners in that 3 year period?

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Post by Mr Nick09 Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:47 am

jibers wrote:
zizzle wrote:when was British football great anyway ?
When Liverpool was raping Europe and when the EPl was putting 3 teams in the cl semis for 3 years in a row...


O and we invented football....so yea...
always lovely when a United fan praise Liverpool for the greatness of English football

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Post by jibers Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:08 am

Pippo wrote:
jibers wrote:
zizzle wrote:when was British football great anyway ?
When Liverpool was raping Europe and when the EPl was putting 3 teams in the cl semis for 3 years in a row...


O and we invented football....so yea...
How many winners in that 3 year period?
Irrelevant, it showed that English football was the best.
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Post by Pip Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:59 am

jibers wrote:
Pippo wrote:
jibers wrote:When Liverpool was raping Europe and when the EPl was putting 3 teams in the cl semis for 3 years in a row...


O and we invented football....so yea...
How many winners in that 3 year period?
Irrelevant, it showed that English football was the best.
It's not irrelevant. To be the best, you have to be at the highest level. English football had the highest amount of top teams in that period, not the "best football". Because what is British football? Manchester United's play flowed through Paul Scholes and Cristiano Ronaldo -- were their playstyles the "essence" of English football? Chelsea played an energetic, efficient style of football that was centered around their strong defense. But what makes them the "essence" of British football? It sort of falls in line with the stereotypes of the Premier League, where it is a kick-rush style to many people. In the article, Neville seems to think that every great facet of play from teams of the past -- like the Mighty Magyars, Cruijff's Dream Team, Guardiola's Barcelona -- can all be attributed to styles of classic British football. He thinks teams across the continent are attempting to become more British -- as if having a workrate on the pitch is "British" -- when in reality, British teams are attempting to become more like their continental rivals. I thought it was a pretty poor article, but the comments on Daily Mail really lap up Neville's conjecture because he does it so eloquently.

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Post by aleumdance Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:35 am

British football won consecutive Champs league from 1976-1981

then UEFA did their magic, banning them 8 years...

fats forward 21st century...Serie A teams claciopoli, UEFA ignores..


Serie A teams fans have been attacking english fans since 2006/07, UEFA does nothing..

then some people wonder why the FA dislikes UEFA?
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Post by BarrileteCosmico Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:57 am

A lot of the article makes no sense. For instance:
If we think our identity is one of trying to keep 70 per cent possession in the game, that’s nonsense. Ball retention is important and technique in British players needs to be good. But improving that aspect of our game should not be at the expense of the basics of being hard to beat. Spain regularly enjoy 70 per cent possession but the statistic that impresses me more is that they have not conceded a goal in the knockout stages of the World Cup or European Championship since 2006.
He is conveniently ignoring the fact that Spain are able to do that in spite of their defense because of ball retention and denying their opponents the chance to do anything with the ball.
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Post by windkick Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:16 am

The fact Gary believes everything he said in that article is exactly why British football isn't great
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Post by Forza Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:19 am

His comments are really just patriotic. There's no substance.
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Post by Forza Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:30 am

aleumdance wrote:British football won consecutive  Champs league from 1976-1981

then UEFA did their magic, banning them 8 years...

fats forward 21st century...Serie A teams claciopoli, UEFA ignores..


Serie A teams fans have been attacking english fans since 2006/07, UEFA does nothing..

then some people wonder why the FA dislikes UEFA?
I think you do not fully understand the extent of the hooliganism at the time before the UEFA ban. We're talking about full scale battles happening on the terraces of stadiums, incidents with multiple deaths, and a British Prime Minister setting up a special office to deal with the problem. It's really incomparable to the limited hooliganism that occurs now in all of the top European leagues. There are still instances of hooliganism by people of all nationalities, including British.

As for Calciopoli, that was a domestic issue. There was never any evidence of illegal activities in UEFA games.
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Post by marottalad Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:29 am

With the revenue and wealthy owners of English football teams they have no excuse to not have atleast 1 team in the semi finals or even final of the champions league such is the wealth and resources of teams like gunners,chelski,utd,liverpool and city.
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Post by Grooverider Tue Oct 08, 2013 7:44 am

[quote="Mr Nick09"]
jibers wrote:
zizzle wrote:when was British football great anyway ?
When Liverpool was raping Europe and when the EPl was putting 3 teams in the cl semis for 3 years in a row...


O and we invented football....so yea...
always lovely when a United fan praise Liverpool for the greatness of English football

this & lol
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Post by billy_gr Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:16 am

GNeville We've forgotten what made British football great: ------> 40m throws
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Post by The Franchise Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:22 am

Im still trying to get my head around the part where Pardew subbed Ben Arfa at half time for not tracking back Baines? Is that true?

Poor Mole.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Oct 08, 2013 10:24 am

On the article, I get what Neville is saying, he isnt totally wrong.

But to say English sides pressed like Bayern, Dortmund and Barca is not true. They gave the same energy and desire to win the ball, but no way where they tactically as organised in their pressing as these current sides.

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Post by Highburied Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:15 am

The Franchise wrote:Im still trying to get my head around the part where Pardew subbed Ben Arfa at half time for not tracking back Baines? Is that true?

Poor Mole.
Thats a bit hypocritical coming from a barca fan, no?

Everyone at Barca tracks back ... Oder?
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Post by The_Badger Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:01 pm

jibers wrote:
Pippo wrote:
jibers wrote:When Liverpool was raping Europe and when the EPl was putting 3 teams in the cl semis for 3 years in a row...


O and we invented football....so yea...
How many winners in that 3 year period?
Irrelevant, it showed that English football was the best.
It showed that by hoovering up the best talent overseas they could perform well.

Putting it down to "British" football is hilarious.

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Post by The_Badger Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:08 pm

aleumdance wrote:British football won consecutive  Champs league from 1976-1981

then UEFA did their magic, banning them 8 years...

fats forward 21st century...Serie A teams claciopoli, UEFA ignores..
Comparing match fixing with hooliganism and being responsible for the deaths of people is possibly the most moronic thing I have read on here.

UEFA did right to ban English clubs from Europe. The hooligan problem was out of control, the worst I have ever seen. All those innocent people that died at Heysel was never going to go unpunished.


Serie A teams fans have been attacking english fans since 2006/07, UEFA does nothing..

then some people wonder why the FA dislikes UEFA?
It's been earlier than that actually, and UEFA have no jurisdiction to enforce their law on incidents that occur outside of the stadium. It amazes me how many people don't seem to understand this.

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Post by The Franchise Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:51 pm

KennethCole wrote:
The Franchise wrote:Im still trying to get my head around the part where Pardew subbed Ben Arfa at half time for not tracking back Baines? Is that true?

Poor Mole.
Thats a bit hypocritical coming from a barca fan, no?

Everyone at Barca tracks back ... Oder?
I dont even know what they hell your talking about.

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Post by Arquitecto Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:04 pm

aleumdance wrote:British football won consecutive  Champs league from 1976-1981

then UEFA did their magic, banning them 8 years...

fats forward 21st century...Serie A teams claciopoli, UEFA ignores..


Serie A teams fans have been attacking english fans since 2006/07, UEFA does nothing..

then some people wonder why the FA dislikes UEFA?
Paizan, the British victimization spiel is getting old now.

UEFA does not hold a personal agenda against the English and the FA. English teams were banned due to one large incident and repeated incidents in the within 1978 and 1980 to which irked their hierarchies after repeated warnings, but yes it was harsh indeed.

Serie A fans attacking English fans? There's a polar irony behind that as well.

Calciopoli was an utter farce. Anyone with a basic requisite of law of common sense into the research knows what a farcical play on football that was. It does not reflect on Calcio either.

FA is simply a partisanship organization to which is intensely corrupt yet known for simply sweeping most of their data under the rug, especially given their media comradery to which helps to serve their cause, be it internal corruption to specified attention.

Example: http://prosoccertalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/03/former-fa-man-lambasts-dereliction-of-duty-regarding-match-fixing/

FIGC has to battle a media who is indifferent to their intentions, along with an actual organization of corruption made to continually investigate the FIGC, rather than the blind eye turned to the FA as per usual.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:13 pm

The Franchise wrote:Im still trying to get my head around the part where Pardew subbed Ben Arfa at half time for not tracking back Baines? Is that true?

Poor Mole.
Its not quite true, Neville has got it slightly wrong.

Pardew played Ben Arfa on the left from the start because he was afraid of Baines and then took him off at half time because he was performing badly out of position lol.

He was then subsequently dropped for the following game for said performance which was entirely the managers fault to begin with.

Which if anything was worse than playing him against Baines and not tracking him.
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Post by The Franchise Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:21 pm

Ok..and yeah, thats even worse Laughing

My god, what is he thinking.

Left footed dribbler and shooter, play him on the left where he cant come inside to dribble or shoot......genuis.

If he just had you guys keep the ball a bit, wouldnt have to worry about Baines running forward, in fact, you would exploit his forward runs if he dares to leave Ben Arfa too much.
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Post by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:48 pm

Pardew is f*cking backwards tbh.

In the 2nd half we did exactly what you say an Baines was anonymous.

But Ben Arfa wasn't on the pitch Laughing So it was all down to Cabaye and Remy at that point, we nearly nicked an undeserved point but its too little too late.

Come the following week against Cardiff we play a legitimate 433 and pass Cardiff off the park.... i'm thinking what would Ben Arfa do when we are playing like this? he brings Ben Arfa on to close out the game and we hoof Laughing

Similar thing happened earlier in the season against West Ham.... we started with Shola upfront in a 442 and passed it around.... we take Shola off and we hoof :facepalm:

The man baffles me.

And yeah Baines isn't great of a defender anyway, you would think Ben Arfa could trouble him..... but nah not Pardew has to always think of stopping the opposition first( and more often than not fails at that Laughing) before thinking about what our strengths are.
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