Mr Nick09 wrote:

aleumdance wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:yes it did make sense. System changes meant that Ozil had lost value for us since he couldnt play n10 anymore. and sorry to say but he is not good enough to  have the whole team designed around him so to cover his weaknesses. Isco replaced him, similar talent with better intangibles.

thats harsh man, very harsh

well, that's the cold truth isnt it? Ozil's father had it in his mind that Ozil had to be treated like Messi in barcelona, i am not kidding, the quotes are out there. That came from the fact that Mourinho started moving him out of position last year because he couldnt defend in big games. He and his camp wasnt happy with that, so imagine how he felt when carlo showed up and did the same.

But then again, Isco has better intangibles and that's the truth, with a similar talent ceiling.

@Forza, the mistake is not sticking up to our players in believing in them, is it a "mistake"? i just dont think so.

maybe Ozil's Dad saw the treatment Ronaldo was getting and that what caused it?

yeah Ozil, can't defend properly but what he does offensively is second to none, that what the others are saying, isco will come good, but he won't have that ozil impact..

windkick wrote:The second Isco was signed it was going to alienate Ozil. Flo knew what he was doing from the start. Plus with Isco AND Bale coming in...and all the cash spent between getting Bale, Isco and Asier....some one was bound to go in the middle and all fingers pointed to Ozil.

I thought it made more sense to find another striker to replace Higuain. Now if Benz goes down they will have to relay allot on Morata. They have a ton of holding/defensive mids but only one true attacking mid in Isco with Modric as a back up. Team seems over powered and unbalanced at the same time.  

that's the coaching staff, carlo and zizou making decisions about how the team is going to shape up. Dont for a second think that they are being forced into something.

dont forget that we are changing formation for the most part, so you have to wait and see how it goes but i do agree i feel like we are short a playmaker, even as back up.

Mr Nick09 wrote:or could it possibly be that Ancelotti doesnt rate Ozil as high as some of you?

it's funny, when Ozil was in madrid, all the others german AMs were better: Kroos, Gotze, Reus, even Gundogan had become better. Now that he is leaving, Ozil is the shining light of german football. take a fckin hike

Germans are serious Critics of their Players.. trust me...

kroos,Gotze, Reus ain't got shite on ozil


I have seen a German tell me Gomez is rubbish and all he does is hangout on the Goal area, some vile stuff they say maybe it culture lol..

aleumdance wrote:
maybe Ozil's Dad saw the treatment Ronaldo was getting and that what caused it?

yeah Ozil, can't defend properly but what he does offensively is second to none, that what the others are saying, isco will come good, but he won't have that ozil impact..

was that stuff second to none vs Bayern, barca, united, or dortmund? hmmm i dont think so.

Mr Nick09 wrote:

aleumdance wrote:
maybe Ozil's Dad saw the treatment Ronaldo was getting and that what caused it?

yeah Ozil, can't defend properly but what he does offensively is second to none, that what the others are saying, isco will come good, but he won't have that ozil impact..

was that stuff second to none vs Bayern, barca, united, or dortmund? hmmm i dont think so.

I thought he played well vs Barca..

as for BvB, Klopp had you guys shut down..the middle was a battlefest , even Wilshere would have failed in that game..

NICK< look at this

aleumdance wrote:

Mr Nick09 wrote:

aleumdance wrote:
maybe Ozil's Dad saw the treatment Ronaldo was getting and that what caused it?

yeah Ozil, can't defend properly but what he does offensively is second to none, that what the others are saying, isco will come good, but he won't have that ozil impact..

was that stuff second to none vs Bayern, barca, united, or dortmund? hmmm i dont think so.

I thought he played well vs Barca..

as for BvB, Klopp had you guys shut down..the middle was a battlefest , even Wilshere would have failed in that game..

Özil was easily the best player on your side against Dortmund, TBH

which game? because i dont remember any. that being said, losing a player of his talent hurt, if it wasnt for ISco, i would be driving to the bernabeu right now to slap people. That being said, we have to wait and see how it pans out overall. Isco is already doing brilliantly for us, so it just comes down to how good Bale can be.

Hmmm.... not so much.  Until Benzema came in the 2nd half of leg 2 when the game was 0-0 and scored a goal + made an assist to Ramos, Madrid were going nowhere.  Ozil was good... but lacked balance.  Problem was not the attack for him.  He was leaving the midfield to fend for itself and Dortmund were outnumbering Madrid in the midfield as a result... they had wide open passing lanes to the forwards.

When it got late in the game, Ramos actually left his CB spot to play a B2B role lol.  Thankfully Dortmund didn't take advantage... but we were completely exposed in the back with only 3 defenders while Ramos was helping ball recovery and attacking.

That has been a big problem for Ozil.  When we are controlling the game and he can just attack, he does well.  But when he's needed to support the midfield and the defensive shape, he's meh.

Bad balance for him.  Brilliant passer...  but unless he's in a system that requires little to no help from him in build up and defense, he is going to be inconsistent.

1. Mesut Ozil is one of the best players in that specific #10 position in the world
2. That position no longer excists under Ancelotti.
3. Despite playing just a little different as a right sided AM (not a winger) he failed to adjust
4. Complained about the position he played to the media
5. Chucked a tantrum after being subbed and ran down the tunnel
6. Refused to put in the defensive work that Ancelotti required
7. His father demanded he be payed the same as Madrid's other Galactico's
8. His father was actually talking to Arsenal before last week's Granada match behind Real Madrid's back
9. Di Maria was a lot more versatile (not saying he was a better player) and is willing to put in the dirty work to go with it.
10. In the end it was a no brainer for Madrid to sell, they refused a much higher and substantial offer from PSG, I feel getting €50m out of Arsenal at the end of the day was a good deal.

No matter how you look at it Real Madrid is 100% better off this year, we sold pretty much every player that struggled to perform outside their natural role, we have a team full of very versatile and dynamic players who can pick up and play in a number of other positions.

crimson, i told u Isco was better

windkick wrote:The second Isco was signed it was going to alienate Ozil. Flo knew what he was doing from the start. Plus with Isco AND Bale coming in...and all the cash spent between getting Bale, Isco and Asier....some one was bound to go in the middle and all fingers pointed to Ozil.

I thought it made more sense to find another striker to replace Higuain. Now if Benz goes down they will have to relay allot on Morata. They have a ton of holding/defensive mids but only one true attacking mid in Isco with Modric as a back up. Team seems over powered and unbalanced at the same time.  

I think Isco was bought due to Di Maria having a poor season. Also Modric isn't backup. He starts alongside Isco.

Mr Nick09 wrote:crimson, i told u Isco was better

haha there is no better than Ozil in that specific role imo, but his inability and unwillingness to adjust was what led to his down fall at Madrid.

Isco on the other hand has taken to that CM/AM role perfectly, while busting a lung every game and putting in defensive work as well. I am not at all worried about Ozil leaving, I feel we are the better team for it.

Crimson wrote:1. Mesut Ozil is one of the best players in that specific #10 position in the world
2. That position no longer excists under Ancelotti.
3. Despite playing just a little different as a right sided AM (not a winger) he failed to adjust
4. Complained about the position he played to the media
5. Chucked a tantrum after being subbed and ran down the tunnel
6. Refused to put in the defensive work that Ancelotti required
7. His father demanded he be payed the same as Madrid's other Galactico's
8. His father was actually talking to Arsenal before last week's Granada match behind Real Madrid's back
9. Di Maria was a lot more versatile (not saying he was a better player) and is willing to put in the dirty work to go with it.
10. In the end it was a no brainer for Madrid to sell, they refused a much higher and substantial offer from PSG, I feel getting €50m out of Arsenal at the end of the day was a good deal.

No matter how you look at it Real Madrid is 100% better off this year, we sold pretty much every player that struggled to perform outside their natural role, we have a team full of very versatile and dynamic players who can pick up and play in a number of other positions.

oh well.....

you seem to prove ur point beyond reasonable doubt

Ozil was our second best attacker, so he should have got whatever he wanted in terms of wages. He deserved it. Arguably the best AM in the world. He's a WC player. Not just anyone.

He's a CAM and and that's where he should have played. One of the best players needs to be accommodated for.

Certain players only suit one position and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Yohan Modric wrote:Ozil was our second best attacker, so he should have got whatever he wanted in terms of wages. He deserved it. Arguably the best AM in the world. He's a WC player. Not just anyone.

He's a CAM and and that's where he should have played. One of the best players needs to be accommodated for.

Certain players only suit one position and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

Ok then so what does Ancelotti do, play a formation or in a way he is not comfortable with or unfamiliar with? Or do we have the same problem as last season with a weak midfield and a great attack?

Ancelotti brought balance to our team I believe if Ozil could not adapt to a small position change without chucking a tantrum and having his father go behind the clubs back then that's his own problem

I am beginning to think Mourinho was right when he said Ozil has to be handled delicately as he can't handle competition for his role at all.

Well Ancelotti has played the diamond/4-3-2-1 before, so Ozil could have fit in at CAM.

-----------DM
-----Modric---Isco
-----------Ozil
----Benzema--Ronaldo

Or maybe keep the 4-2-3-1. I thought Isco would be a replacement for Di Maria. Isco did play LW for Malaga and for Spain u21 he played out on either flank.

--------DM---Modric
----Isco----Ozil----Ronaldo
----------Benzema

@Nick you remember every tiny detail of ozil shortcomings but forgot many of his moment of brilliances setting up ronaldo's precious goals vs Barca, he defended well vs Barca too. In the tough matches vs Bayern he's the one who scored that precious away goal and latter set up the goal that could have put us through if not for avoidable mistake at defense. he was brilliance vs United in 1st leg and despite rather average in the 2nd leg it's still from his doing we got that winning goal. He saved our face vs Dortmund in 2nd game vs them in group stage with strong performance & the free kick goal, he set up countless chances vs Dortmund in 2nd leg semi and eventually got assist for goal that keep the game up until the last seconds.

sportsczy wrote:Actually, that was one of the worrying things....  Ozil's (and Di Maria's) assists dropped drastically last year.  Benzema led the club with 20 in all comps despite rotating heavily.  So Isco/Bale have basically replaced Ozil/Di Maria in starting lineup...

For Real Madrid in 2012/13 in all competitions, Ozil had 20 assists. Benzema got 15. And don't tell me that it's because Benzema played less, Ozil also has a higher assist/start ratio last season in all competitions for RM.

nope....

Benzema had 20 assists in La Liga + CL + CDR only: http://www.realmadrid.com/cs/Satellite/en/1193041476158/1202775163178/jugador/Jugador/Benzema.htm

7amood11 wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Actually, that was one of the worrying things....  Ozil's (and Di Maria's) assists dropped drastically last year.  Benzema led the club with 20 in all comps despite rotating heavily.  So Isco/Bale have basically replaced Ozil/Di Maria in starting lineup...

For Real Madrid in 2012/13 in all competitions, Ozil had 20 assists. Benzema got 15. And don't tell me that it's because Benzema played less, Ozil also has a higher assist/start ratio last season in all competitions for RM.

Benzema had 19 assists last season play much less than Ozil

12 in the league
3 in the CdR/Cup
4 in Europe

Crimson wrote:
Ancelotti brought balance to our team I believe if Ozil could not adapt to a small position change without chucking a tantrum and having his father go behind the clubs back then that's his own problem

I am beginning to think Mourinho was right when he said Ozil has to be handled delicately as he can't handle competition for his role at all.

hahah, oh dear... it was real madrid that gave out signals to ManU, Arsenal etc. to put a bid in. not his father, and besides, thats what AGENTS do. once something could go down the drain, they look for alternatives. don't try to paint it like family özil schemed it and he should have been a man about being benched. there are way more other divas in the team and fact is - he didn't earn enough with you. he had every right in the world to demand more money and more commitment.

real can only lose here. la decima is not coming anyway and everybody knows it, especially like that. might as well admit it early and save some blushes

Ozil's father is a known douche though... he's been crappy since his Bundi days. Creates a lot of noise for his kid unfortunately.

Compare:

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/karim-benzema/leistungsdaten/spieler_18922_2012.html

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/mesut-oezil/leistungsdaten/spieler_35664_2012.html

ESPN also said that Ozil had more assists (15 - 20).

7amood11 wrote:Compare:

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/karim-benzema/leistungsdaten/spieler_18922_2012.html

http://www.transfermarkt.com/en/mesut-oezil/leistungsdaten/spieler_35664_2012.html

ESPN also said that Ozil had more assists (15 - 20).

transfermarket is terrible for stats and ESPN does not include stats from the CdR or the Cup

Nice try though

Benzema got that 20 assists out of about 40 chances he created.
Ozil got the same number out of about 90 chances he created.