Lambert's Clarets vs Rodgers' Reds

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Post by Adit Sat Aug 24, 2013 10:16 pm

Good win but his choice to sit back in the second half was poor. Obviously it can be said that Rodgers got it right because AV didnt score and Pool were able to keep a clean sheet but sitting back for an entire half is never a good tactics.

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Post by stevieg8 Sun Aug 25, 2013 1:19 am

I agree we should've pushed forward, but we were all very afraid of Villa's counter attacking skills before this game, and Rodgers did what was necessary to stop them. The fact is, the only real chances they had were Agbonlahor's shot from 12 yards out and Benteke's "I'm going to create something out of nothing" moments. We defended incredibly well the entire second half, none of the chances were created by mistakes, and we got the win as a result.

I think against most teams we would've pushed forward for a second, but this game was a rare case where their threat on the counter - but relative lack of skill in breaking down camped defenses - meant it was the best choice.
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Post by McAgger Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:59 am

One thing that I don't like, and I'd want to voice this in this thread, is that Hendo is being played at RM by Rodgers. It brings back Kenny's regimes memories of Hendo there and they're not pleasant.

I like him much more in that LAM-AM hybrid role where he's got the freedom to come inside or go out wide or drop in the opposing box and makes his great pressing and engine count. On the right he's next useless really other than his work rate which is always top notch.
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Post by Red Alert Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:27 am

Mignolet and Sturridge winning us 3 points in consecutive games. :bow:

First time we've won 2 games in a row since 2008/09. :bow:

With that said, that was a poor game.

We were dominated by Villa... lol

Any way. 3 points. 6 points out of 6. :bow:
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Post by Red Alert Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:34 am

Also, am I still the only one that's not convinced with Coutinho playing in the middle? He is so much more quiet when he plays more centrally as he's closed down more often. Hoping Rodgers doesn't seem him centrally because of his performance against Newcastle last season....
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Post by RedOranje Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:36 am

He started on the left today and drifted as he's always done.
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Post by Red Alert Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:37 am

He was moved in the centre when Cissokho came on. He touched the ball like twice after that.
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Post by McAgger Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:42 am

Yeah and Cissokho came on when there was 20 minutes left (and Coutinho was subbed off 10 mins after that). At which point nobody in our team got to touch the ball except to clear it.


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EDIT Months Later

Lambert's Clarets vs Rodgers' Reds - Page 4 IblTAWVrgyNfgJ


Last edited by McAgger on Tue Jan 14, 2014 2:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Post by Art Morte Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:29 am

Coutinho's best position is in the center. If there's as little going on around him as in the second half in this game, it's easy to close him down early.

Let's put it this way that if Coutinho wasn't in the center in our goal against Villa and played that dummy that let the ball run to Sturridge and fooled the defenders, we wouldn't have scored that goal.


What comes to us sitting back on purpose, I don't know... We played well for the first 30 minutes, kept the ball and attacked and Villa didn't have any dangerous counter-attacks then. Even against counter-attacking teams I don't think it's generally good tactics to defend a one-goal lead when your side has got more quality than theirs. But fair enough, we defended well, won the game, so it's nice to know we are able to do that as well.
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Post by ExtremistEnigma Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:32 am

Adit wrote:Good win but his choice to sit back in the second half was poor. Obviously it can be said that Rodgers got it right because AV didnt score and Pool were able to keep a clean sheet but sitting back for an entire half is never a good tactics.
Well tbf Rodgers was pwned by Lambert both the times when they were managing Swansea and Norwich respectively as well as last year at home, so I think he has gotten a little bit cautious against him.
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Post by iftikhar Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:56 am

Aspas in middle and Henderson on right wasn't good. Would have been better if they swapped positions. I think we had to defend in the H2 as Henderson and Aspas were not offering much while Coutinho, Sturridge and Gerrard was kept on a lease (in addition to running out of steam).
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Post by Red Alert Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:54 am

He was playing on the left hand side cutting in in the first half, Art.

He only moved centrally when Cissokho came on.
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Post by Red Alert Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:55 am

ExtremistEnigma wrote:
Adit wrote:Good win but his choice to sit back in the second half was poor. Obviously it can be said that Rodgers got it right because AV didnt score and Pool were able to keep a clean sheet but sitting back for an entire half is never a good tactics.
Well tbf Rodgers was pwned by Lambert both the times when they were managing Swansea and Norwich respectively as well as last year at home, so I think he has gotten a little bit cautious against him.
Lambert. :bow:
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Post by donttreadonred Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:39 pm

McAgger wrote:One thing that I don't like, and I'd want to voice this in this thread, is that Hendo is being played at RM by Rodgers. It brings back Kenny's regimes memories of Hendo there and they're not pleasant.

I like him much more in that LAM-AM hybrid role where he's got the freedom to come inside or go out wide or drop in the opposing box and makes his great pressing and engine count. On the right he's next useless really other than his work rate which is always top notch.
You have to take into consideration the formation we're playing...

In possession it's very much a 4-2-2-2. The full-backs push forward to create width, while the two AMs cut inside (to differing extents).
Lambert's Clarets vs Rodgers' Reds - Page 4 AbFnKgPadd

In defense, the two AMs pulled back and to the outside in order to check the runs of the opposing full-backs; one striker drops between the lines into an advanced-AM/CF role; and the full-backs recede into a normal full-back position. This makes it an effective 4-2-3-1/4-4-1-1 when we are out of possession.
Lambert's Clarets vs Rodgers' Reds - Page 4 AbFnKkwaeC

Coutinho is nailed-on for the left-sided AM slot, but the right side is somewhat up for grabs. So far, Henderson has been favored, patially because of his work-rate without the ball, and partially because of his physical presence. Those attributes offer something unique the side, and they make Hendo a nice foil to Coutinho on the other side of the pitch.

What you have to remember is that some commentators are tactical dinosaurs. They see this lineup, and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is 4-4-2. While you could shoehorn it into a general 4-4-2 setup if you want to be overly simplistic, the truth is that the roles and resposibilities are very different, causing the formation to behave very differently than your traditional 4-4-2. This means that while Henderson may be nominally in the same position as where he played under King Kenny, the role is very, very different. This can be seen in his relationship with Glen Johnson. Anytime Johnson pushed forward, it was clear that Henderson's role was to come inside and hang around the edge of the box, ala an attacking -mid.

I will say that I do think Hendo might be more of a threat from the left in some situations. However, I think it has been a tactical decision to play him on the right. To me, it appears that we're trying to setup the team to utilize two strikers, while maintaining the passing angles for a possession-based philosophy. It also has the added benefit of providing a seamless transition for Suarez to come straight back into the setup. Henderson provides the best option on the right, with our current personnel. If we were to go for more of a pure counter-attacking style, I would definitely like to see Henderson left and Aspas right to provide more pace and power on the break.
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Post by Helmer Sun Aug 25, 2013 2:50 pm

he had also put 2 perfect crosses inside the box, unfortunately which no one could meet from our team otherwise they were goals had stu,cou or aspas met them. I doubt it was part of any plan to provide crosses like that that is why no one bothered to be in the box at that time. But i liked this thing as an extra dimension when hendo plays on the right , surely such type of crosses, gleno can never provide.

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Post by donttreadonred Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:15 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:he had also put 2 perfect crosses inside the box, unfortunately which no one could meet from our team otherwise they were goals had stu,cou or aspas met them. I doubt it was part of any plan to provide crosses like that that is why no one bothered to be in the box at that time. But i liked this thing as an extra dimension when hendo plays on the right , surely such type of crosses, gleno can never provide.
Glenjo can cross, he just typically doesn't. He's usually looking to play a 1-2, and get behind the backline to cut the ball back. If there are no options, he shoots. This mentality suits the overall philosophy for the most part. However, his shot on goal yesterday would've been a goal had he hit a low cross to Studge instead. :facepalm: Mad :facepalm: 

Had we converted that, it could've drastically changed the last 10-20 mins of the match. It would've effectively killed off the game.
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Post by vegfootball Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:05 pm

Art Morte wrote:Btw, Cissokho got his debut, surprisingly on the left wing, gotta say I'd rather have brought on Sterling, I hope this is just to get Aly's debut out of the way and because we were on the back foot, would hate it if Cissokho would actually be ahead of Sterling when it comes to left wingers, lol.

But I second what MacsyAgsy said, we need to create more. Otherwise we will end up dropping a lot of points in games like this where we are trying to passively hang on to a one goal lead.
think it more to help with the Defensive as were been over run
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Post by vegfootball Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:19 pm

IMO so far this what i think of the players

Mignolet yet agian good game

Johnson own the right side but IMO he need help in attack as need some realy pull players way so he can drive into space

Enrique good defensive but need to give more to the attack play

Touré & Agger look like they been playing together for years hope stay like that

Lucas did his role as defensive midfielder to the T but still think need some bit pace in that role

Gerrard it sad see one of liverpool fc legends show he on his last legs

Henderson the way Rodgers use him is like a yard dog, run around fill hole but does not get into attack to much

Coutinho look good wide but find hard when playing central

Sturridge hope he can be are new  Torres

Aspas look like a hit & miss player i.e have one games then have a bad game next time
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Post by Nishankly Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:11 pm

Too early man, Ill judge the team before the game Suarez is back.
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Post by vegfootball Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:20 pm

Nishank wrote:Too early man, Ill judge the team before the game Suarez is back.
what to do you mean ?????





Johnson,Agger,Enrique,Lucas,Gerrard Henderson,,Coutinho Sturridge have been here a year or more to you know what give so you know what they give to the team, so why not  judge them now now ???


Touré,Mignolet,Aspas are the new player & yes a bit to eary to  judge them but in the two games i seen, i was say what they are give to us right now
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Post by Nishankly Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:35 pm

Fair, But we cant replace them now, So im in no hurry until i see the final team after September. Then ill start judging on what we need in the Jan window. Simples.
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Post by Helmer Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:46 pm

I think we can play hendo in the center when we are playing at home...let Aspas play on the right, I believe we should keep it interchangeable between cou and hendo...and ask hendo to always cover for cou

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Post by vegfootball Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:11 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:I think we can play hendo in the center when we are playing at home...let Aspas play on the right, I believe we should keep it interchangeable between cou and hendo...and ask hendo to always cover for cou
that what i said about Henderson the way Rodgers use him is like a yard dog, doing all hard work, what only level us with only Aspas/Coutinho are are goal score midfielder's

we have lost 30+ goals from midfield i.e Maxi/Kuyt/Gerrard/Benayoun we need more goals from midfield
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Post by Helmer Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:21 pm

and that is why were trying to get Mkhiryan or Costa

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Post by vegfootball Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:52 pm

HEIL MEIN REDS wrote:and that is why were trying to get Mkhiryan or Costa
it take 3 mouths & we have draw up list of 3 players Mkhiryan, Costa,Willian

not good enough, Gerrard & Lucas should be use in rotation for the defensive midfielder role

Henderson & one other player to be the goal score/chances created midfielder's

then out wide a goal score/chances created midfielder
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Post by El Jefe Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:27 pm

vegfootball wrote:Lucas did his role as defensive midfielder to the T but still think need some bit pace in that role

Gerrard it sad see one of liverpool fc legends show he on his last legs
What? Lucas did his job and Gerrard showed he's on his last legs?

Gerrard was doing Lucas' job for him. It wasn't vintage Gerrard but he was very good tactically and positionally, one of his best defensive performances in a long time.
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