Re: Illarramendi

by Arquitecto Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:58 am

Illaramendi played in a pivot of 4-2-3-1 within Montanier's Sociedad to which equated him carrying a substantial bulk of the midfield play. Defensively he was assisted by Bergara and Elustondo yet in attack he was the one who showed up each and every single time versus La Liga's finest midfields and during the moments where La Real needed midfield domination. He poses cautious nature now because
-Playing in a 3 man midfield is something that he not accustomed to given all the responsibility that was on his within La Real. It presents less freedom and vertical movement given you have to always notify your fellow midfielders movements as that naturally will have you more as a unit. Given the price on him after his breakthrough season it will be difficult to perform in a jump from Sociedad to Real Madrid as Luka Modric was 27 when he came to Real Madrid and put a disappointing season.

The Illara you see now is not the Illara of La Real given that in La Real he was a very vertical player player in his movement and displayed extraordinary range of passing to which solved the Montanier problem of their lack of width. Think his role compared to Steven Gerrard of LFC currently or Claudio Marchisio's recent role under Conte.

His understanding of the game and excellent composure in tight spaces must be used more often yet he must be given time to settle as all the pressures and circumstances on him won't exactly be alleviated in such quick fashion especially given his lack of game time. Players like him take more time to adapt.

"Hay jugadores quien, si les dejas en un bosque sin brujula, siempre saldrán. La mayoria se perderá". (There are players who, if you leave them in a forest without a compass, they'll always find their way out. Most players will get lost.)

Valdano had this great quote once:

"Hay jugadores quien, si les dejas en un bosque sin brujula, siempre saldrán. La mayoria se perderá". (There are players who, if you leave them in a forest without a compass, they'll always find their way out. Most players will get lost.)

Illara is the former.

by Thimmy Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:16 am

Arquitescu wrote:
Valdano had this great quote once:

"Hay jugadores quien, si les dejas en un bosque sin brujula, siempre saldrán. La mayoria se perderá". (There are players who, if you leave them in a forest without a compass, they'll always find their way out. Most players will get lost.)

Illara is the former.

His understanding of the game and excellent composure in tight spaces must be used more often yet he must be given time to settle as all the pressures and circumstances on him won't exactly be alleviated in such quick fashion especially given his lack of game time. Players like him take more time to adapt.

I hope you're right, but as we all know, Real Madrid isn't exactly the most patient club in the world, and certainly not so under Florentino Perez. I think it's evident from his cautiousness/unwillingness to take risks that he's adapting to a new system, and Perez has never been patient with those who are a bit slow on the uptake. In the case of Modric, I think he was fortunate that Özil got shipped off when he did. It wasn't that long ago that the media were spreading rumours about a potential exit for him.

by Magic Spray Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:46 am

He will be fine. People on this site are constantly in a rush to make a knee jerk judgment on a player or a team. They end up looking foolish more often than not. He hasn't been bad and he hasn't been spectacular either. But coming to any conclusions about what kind of player he is now while he is going through such a huge transition and had so few minutes is pointless. Given time to grow into his new role, I expect him to be playing very well by this time next year. Until then, lets exercise patience and reserve the harsh judgements.

by sportsczy Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:17 am

Zealous wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Just to compare... do you think Illara is or will be ever as good as Kroos, Piggy, Thiago, Verratti, Vidal, Pogba, etc.? Nope. Not a chance.

Uh.. why not? I see no reason why he can't reach a high level as he develops his game. Did you think Busquests would be elite when he started? Not saying that will happen with Illarra but the guys you mentioned mostly have hype going for them and in my opinion a lot of them are overrated as all fck.

Lack of talent... just don't see the big upside in his game. He will be good, but never great imo. All the other guys have an aspect to their game that was out of the norm to start with:
- Kroos - incredible shooting and passing technique. Near perfect tbh.
- Thiago - technical ability is out of the norm.
- Verrratti- Same as Thiago but from a different area of the pitch.
- Vidal - Great knack for scoring and making himself into a scoring threat.
- Pogba - high level of skill despite being phsyically very imposing. Very graceful despite size.

What is there about Illaramendi that puts him out of the norm? I thought his tactical awareness... but that was debunked completely to start the season. He's ok now, but nothing exceptional. He needs to develop something that separates him.

by chad4401 Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:54 pm

sportsczy wrote:
Zealous wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
Just to compare... do you think Illara is or will be ever as good as Kroos, Piggy, Thiago, Verratti, Vidal, Pogba, etc.? Nope. Not a chance.

Uh.. why not? I see no reason why he can't reach a high level as he develops his game. Did you think Busquests would be elite when he started? Not saying that will happen with Illarra but the guys you mentioned mostly have hype going for them and in my opinion a lot of them are overrated as all fck.
Lack of talent... just don't see the big upside in his game. He will be good, but never great imo. All the other guys have an aspect to their game that was out of the norm to start with:
- Kroos - incredible shooting and passing technique. Near perfect tbh.
- Thiago - technical ability is out of the norm.
- Verrratti- Same as Thiago but from a different area of the pitch.
- Vidal - Great knack for scoring and making himself into a scoring threat.
- Pogba - high level of skill despite being phsyically very imposing. Very graceful despite size.

What is there about Illaramendi that puts him out of the norm? I thought his tactical awareness... but that was debunked completely to start the season. He's ok now, but nothing exceptional. He needs to develop something that separates him.

again seems like your looking for something flashy from illarra, when he clearly just trying to do his job as tidy as possible while adapting to the team and his new environment, none of the guys you listed with prob never be as good as xavi, and yet xavi blossomed way later in his career, and i dont see how illarra lacks talent either.

by sportsczy Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:04 pm

Xavi had impeccable passing technique and tactica awareness... It was very clear when he was younger. If anything, you thought he was underperforming early and then his performance caught up with his talent.

Do you feel that Illara's performance has to catch up with his talent? The great ones have untapped potential that you hope they reach. I don't see this high ceiling that Illara is trying to reach.

Again, he's going to be a good player just like Khedira is a good player. My point is that the ceiling is not very high.

by chad4401 Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:05 pm

Fair enough if you feel illarra ceiling isn't that high maybe its not, but i still think he can be WC, he has a lot to improve upon but he has the time and the right teacher around him in xabi alonso.

The positives right now he is very tidy in possession, technically he is very good, good vision and reads the game well in defence or offence. The only thing he lacks is confidence to make those decisive long passes, his mid range and short passes are underrated as well.

Give him time he will blossom to the level required of madrid.

by sportsczy Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:33 pm

Yeah... i would never call Illara a bad or even average player because he's not. He's a good player. I just don't see greatness in him.

by Le Samourai Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:38 pm

Chad where in Jamaica you from?

by FennecFox7 Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:09 pm

Illara can't be wc dude..

But that doesn't mean that he can't be useful to us and a good player.. We have like 2 wc players, and those are cristiano and alonso..

by Cyborg Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:48 pm

alonso rumoured to be leaving.

illaramendi ready to make the step up?

by Onyx Wed Aug 27, 2014 11:51 pm

Kroos will still be the main starting DM imo.

by Cyborg Thu Aug 28, 2014 10:50 pm

Yohan Modric wrote:Kroos will still be the main starting DM imo.

yea i know. just loling at illaramendi

lets see if he delivers when called on

by Valkyrja Wed Sep 24, 2014 9:24 pm

he's great when played DM. He has to start if we want to get something out of this season.

by halamadrid2 Thu Sep 25, 2014 9:43 am

He better fcking start. Everytime Carlo talks about Illarra he mentions balance. Well play him then

I somehow doubt he will start on Saturday. Back to the 4-2-4 again Proud

by Onyx Thu Sep 25, 2014 12:30 pm

If we can score 5 without a CF, we could always try:

------------Illarra
-----Modric-------Kroos
------------James
---------Bale----Ronaldo

by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:00 pm

so what's he good for exactly. I fail to see it. He's never played in games of any importance or difficulty (keeps getting passed over by Carlo in those even if we have nobody else Laughing

), he shows no flashes of talent like Isco did last season and he's timid as frak.

What's he doing at Madrid?

by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:31 pm

Him not playing isn't helping at all.

If Carlo is not gonna use him we may as well sell the guy. He's a good player imo but what's the point if he doesn't play at all.

by Valkyrja Fri Oct 31, 2014 3:51 pm

He's Kroos' backup. if he goes we'll have only Khedira when Modric/Kroos won't be available or will need a rest

by McAgger Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:04 pm

He cost you you 30m+ rofl

by Doc Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:23 pm

What's so funny? Agree with Z on this, he's a good footballer and should be at least starting some games. If the club has no use for him, cut their losses and sell him. Other teams around Europe would most likely be interested in his talents.

by McAgger Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:28 pm

It's funny because he's worth absolutely no where close to that. I don't see the difference between him or someone like Altintop that you got for free. Been a passenger up to this point and has shown zero talent from what I've watched of him in white.

by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 4:42 pm

I mean when Alonso was suspended for the CL final, Carlo decided to go with an unfit Khedira... and played Khedira out of position no less Laughing

That's about as bad a vote of non-confidence as a player can get.

I agree that he's a decent footballer... i just don't think he's good enough for Madrid. The biggest thing is that he's timid out there. If you lack skills, you have to fierce. Don't see that fire.

by Doc Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:13 pm

Illarra is not the first player to be bought way beyond his actual talent range so I wouldn't say it's funny. More like the norm honestly.

The player I saw at Sociedad, the one I honestly rated highly is not the same player at Real Madrid. Not sure what this timid little Basque rabbit is but Illarramendi at La Real was not afraid of a challenge. I know he is bias (extremely) but Arq could vouch for his abilities.

I still say the club sell him, recoup whatever money they can get and chalk this as another failed experiment. Another footballer who just couldn't cut the mustard in Madrid. No shame really, many better footballers failed the grade...

by sportsczy Fri Oct 31, 2014 5:24 pm

I pretty much feel that any player that is still young getting stifled at Madrid or any other big club should get sold so he doesn't get destroyed... Illara may prove us wrong though. I thought Isco's path got completely blocked when we bought James... but maybe not. With Bale getting injured so often, he's getting his chance and doing the most with it. Looks like Modric is injured now... will Carlo play Illara or Khedira?

by Zealous Fri Oct 31, 2014 6:26 pm

Don't call me James wrote:It's funny because he's worth absolutely no where close to that. I don't see the difference between him or someone like Altintop that you got for free. Been a passenger up to this point and has shown zero talent from what I've watched of him in white.

LOL You still watch Madrid games? Proud

Like I said, he's a good player and a lot of teams would love to have him. Liverpool for example are crying out for a player like him in midfield.

Anyway, there's no point if the coach is not willing to play him. Carlo's a good dude but the guy sure can freeze a player out of the team ruthlessly.

Anyway rumor has it Carlo is in love with a DM prospect in Brazil called Lucas Silva.

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