Re: [BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate

by Dante Wed Nov 19, 2014 10:52 pm

If it's well done , why not ? Obviously staying loyal to the books would be gladly appreciated before anything else , however , i don't think it would bother me if they did it well.

by M99 Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:07 am

My thoughts on the matter is Aegon appearing as he did in the books>>>>>Trystane being Aegon>>>>No Aegon. If T=A ends up happening, they have to establish the fact that only Doran knows the truth along with Varys and maybe Illyrio and Oberyn had no idea about it or YOU RAPED HER YOU KILLED HER CHILDREN would feel cheap. I read another good idea regarding T=A. Doran's wife is from Essos and in the books she separates from Doran and moves back to Essos. In the show they can have the real Trystane living with his mother on Essos. Tyrion can bump into them on his travels and figure out Trystane's identity and be like "Wait. If this is Trystane who is Myrcella with in Dorne?" and then in the next scene you can have Doran's reveal with the epic Fire And Blood speech.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Nov 20, 2014 1:59 am

One thing I'm not entirely clear on is that the showrunners said that "Varys motivations will become imminently clear in the upcoming season" so they would change his entire character arc if Aegon is not there. So mabe the T=A theory si true.

But then Aegon goes from being a boy that lived amongst the poor for most of his wandering the world to just another spoilt lordling.

by M99 Thu Nov 20, 2014 4:16 pm

by urbaNRoots Thu Nov 20, 2014 5:12 pm

I agree with you guys, it's the only way the massive focus on Dorne makes sense. If there's no Aegon or someone taking Aegon's role not much happens in Dorne to get such a big focus as it is getting - actually more stuff happens with the Greyjoys and they've been delayed/cut.

by dostoevsky Sun Nov 23, 2014 10:44 am

M99

Also the wait for TWOW is driving the trolls to greater extremes than ever before.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/120864-joffrey-is-taena-merrywhether/

by Jonathan28 Sun Nov 23, 2014 2:12 pm

M99 wrote:http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/28aqvm/spoilers_all_the_effects_of_favoritism_on_how_the/

Completely agree with this.

Thanks for posting this, I agree with everything in it. The changes made to Renly and Loras are disgusting. They're meant to be big, brave, bro like dudes who are knights and just happen to be gay, but in their show, their sexuality completely defines them. I didn't even know that Renly and Loras were gay on my first read through of the books, the show on the other hand made sure that show only watchers knew that immediately rofl

Renly was meant to be a younger version of Robert, 6 foot plus and built like a tank, but in the show he was your typical, feminine like sterotypical gay dude. It was annoying. And Loras, oh lord, don't get me started in that one.

by urbaNRoots Sun Nov 23, 2014 5:41 pm

The showrunners very obviously like the Lannisters and Dany a little too much, so all the good things they do are highlighted very well while almost all their bad things and mistakes are either given to someone else or just cut.

The worst is Cersei, they gave almost all her bad deeds to Joffrey in the show while it appears that she's the victim most of the time rather than a villainous, crazy, evil bitch. I could give examples but there are too many.

Also Littlefinger... the book version is a lot more subtle and intelligent, he doesn't go around threatening the queen and the king's brother about their secrets and doesn't share his own with whores lol

by BarrileteCosmico Wed Nov 26, 2014 6:15 pm

This article is getting a lot of attention, what do you guys think?

http://lareviewofbooks.org/essay/need-talk-tyrion-hbo-failed-george-r-r-martins-iconic-character

by Jonathan28 Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:23 pm

urbaNRoots wrote:The worst is Cersei, they gave almost all her bad deeds to Joffrey in the show while it appears that she's the victim most of the time rather than a villainous, crazy, evil bitch. I could give examples but there are too many.

I hate this so much. Joff is a dick, a spoiled brat who has too much power and who does some crazy things, but he's not an extreme psychopath like the show protrayed him as. Cersei is a major reason why Joff is the way he is. She fed his ego and let him run wild, but in the show, she's made to look like a powerless, innocent mother whose life is made miserable by her mad son. WTF?!

The woman is a psycho. Being given a glimpse into her head in her PoV chapters in AFFC/ADwD was scary, she's completely insane. She murdered her friend because the girl had a crush on her brother ffs.

It's a surprise that her two younger children actually turned out sane, though she was too busy spending time corrupting Joff, so I guess it's no surprise they turned out alright.

by RealGunner Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:27 pm

won't lie, I started supporting her against Maergery during the 1 on 1 in AFOC

by Jonathan28 Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:31 pm

RealGunner wrote:won't lie, I started supporting her against Maergery during the 1 on 1 in AFOC

[BOOKS] Game of Thrones for the Literate - Page 34 CQ4q0hG

by RealGunner Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:39 pm

Lol she became so interesting compared to Maergery. Loved her sarcastic humour. Her thoughts during the round table conferences rofl

Wish I could find them on the internet.

She was the heart of AFFC imo.

by Dante Thu Nov 27, 2014 11:58 pm

True , reading Cercei was entertaining at least. BC , i read the article. Wish i wouldn't agree so much . Still like show Tyrion , just it should have been better in the end. Tysha-Shae shownly alterations do change his character to an extent , however Dinklage more than makes it up for me. In the end , i do believe they changed all Tysha stuff , being loved by Shae e.t.c , because of happenings that will occur later in the series . Can't tell as of now what's right and what's not.

In any case , as long as the show does it well . I can look the other way with changes. The canon is there , whatever the show does , the books will never change , so all's fine i guess , i don't really mind even if i do agree with most of the article anyway.

by dostoevsky Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:25 am

I was the same as RG, sided with Cersei against Margaery simply for the lulz. Laughing

by M99 Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:33 am

I thought that after reading Cersei POV on AFFC I will change my perspective on her just like I did with Jaime on ASOS. I was right. I found out she is a downright psycho. Effin hell, how can you start liking her after getting inside her head? Jonathan has is right, she is crazy! The only redeemable quality she has is that she truly loves her children and would do anything for them. And not mention she is delusion and extremely stupid while thinking of herself as Tywin. Making Aurane Waters Master of Ships just because he looks like Rhaegar rofl

by BarrileteCosmico Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:56 am

Dante wrote:True , reading Cercei was entertaining at least. BC , i read the article. Wish i wouldn't agree so much . Still like show Tyrion , just it should have been better in the end. Tysha-Shae shownly alterations do change his character to an extent , however Dinklage more than makes it up for me. In the end , i do believe they changed all Tysha stuff , being loved by Shae e.t.c , because of happenings that will occur later in the series . Can't tell as of now what's right and what's not.

In any case , as long as the show does it well . I can look the other way with changes. The canon is there , whatever the show does , the books will never change , so all's fine i guess , i don't really mind even if i do agree with most of the article anyway.

As I understand it the reason that Shae was made to love Tyrion in the show is that the actress they cast for Shae was much more talented than they anticipated and they wanted to make the most of it, giving her a more nuanced role to play than simply a gold-digger. And I think it would also be hard to convey that Tyrion has convinced himself she loves him but that she doesn't really without access to internal monologue - something that also presents an issue with the whole Tysha change.

That being said, I found book-Tyrion sometimes an unbelievable character whereas Dinklage has made him completely believable in my eyes. So I can't really say that show-Tyrion is any worse, or that these changes amount to character assasination as is often accused.

by urbaNRoots Fri Nov 28, 2014 10:51 am

Cersei was a fun character to read post-Tywin-murder because all of her mistakes and her fall but I just can't bring myself to cheer for her against Margaery.

Margaery while maybe not completely innocent isn't a psychopath and I doubt Cersei has been humbled after the walk of shame - the way she talks to Kevan in the epilogue is blatant show, I reckon she'll be even more paranoid than before. I think she'll try to burn KL and all the commoners in it with Wildfire at some point in Winds maybe just before fAegon attacks KL and flee to Casterly Rock.

by Dante Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:29 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:
Dante wrote:True , reading Cercei was entertaining at least. BC , i read the article. Wish i wouldn't agree so much . Still like show Tyrion , just it should have been better in the end. Tysha-Shae shownly alterations do change his character to an extent , however Dinklage more than makes it up for me. In the end , i do believe they changed all Tysha stuff , being loved by Shae e.t.c , because of happenings that will occur later in the series . Can't tell as of now what's right and what's not.

In any case , as long as the show does it well . I can look the other way with changes. The canon is there , whatever the show does , the books will never change , so all's fine i guess , i don't really mind even if i do agree with most of the article anyway.

As I understand it the reason that Shae was made to love Tyrion in the show is that the actress they cast for Shae was much more talented than they anticipated and they wanted to make the most of it, giving her a more nuanced role to play than simply a gold-digger. And I think it would also be hard to convey that Tyrion has convinced himself she loves him but that she doesn't really without access to internal monologue - something that also presents an issue with the whole Tysha change.

That being said, I found book-Tyrion sometimes an unbelievable character whereas Dinklage has made him completely believable in my eyes. So I can't really say that show-Tyrion is any worse, or that these changes amount to character assasination as is often accused.

That the actress proved to be better than anticipated is so true , i actually think what you say was confirmed ? That they chose to deepen her character on purpose , seeing she could pull it off. As for the rest , i actually take it back. That about future reasons and all e.t.c. . Yes i agree with how you put it basically. Even if there's future reasons involved , your argument i agree completely , what i said there would almost pass in second fate. Good points.

I also agree about show Tyrion and what you said there on character assassination... over the top? Hyperbole? Exaggerating? Not sure how to put it with a few words , but that's not character assassination . In the end , show Tyrion is a little more.. 'human' than book Tyrion , thus closer to relate i suppose. Tysha exclusion annoyed the majority of readers , some more , some less . But in the end , i wouldn't say it ruined Tyrion's character or anything. The changes made it a little different , not bad . I don't see a non-Tyrion on the show because of it , i still see Tyrion .

by Jonathan28 Fri Nov 28, 2014 9:31 pm

The thing that humoured me most about Tyrion in the show is how he and Jamie parted ways with a hug and all buddy, buddy like. It seemed like the whole departure was written by someone who was sad at how Jamie and Tyrion parted ways badly in the books and went back and re-wrote it for something more happier. It was like watching someone's fanfiction Laughing

by dostoevsky Sat Nov 29, 2014 1:41 am

Jonathan28 wrote:The thing that humoured me most about Tyrion in the show is how he and Jamie parted ways with a hug and all buddy, buddy like. It seemed like the whole departure was written by someone who was sad at how Jamie and Tyrion parted ways badly in the books and went back and re-wrote it for something more happier. It was like watching someone's fanfiction

A million times this, it was ridiculous. Couldn't believe my eyes.

by urbaNRoots Sat Nov 29, 2014 5:26 pm

http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/2npj40/spoilers_all_nights_king_in_season_5/

Night's King will appear again in S5 according to this user, probably Hardhome... "dead things in the water" gave me shivers I hope they include that.

(This guy also correctly predicted the Craster's keep arc last season so it is believed he's reliable)

by Jonathan28 Sat Nov 29, 2014 8:18 pm

dostoevsky wrote:
Jonathan28 wrote:The thing that humoured me most about Tyrion in the show is how he and Jamie parted ways with a hug and all buddy, buddy like. It seemed like the whole departure was written by someone who was sad at how Jamie and Tyrion parted ways badly in the books and went back and re-wrote it for something more happier. It was like watching someone's fanfiction

A million times this, it was ridiculous. Couldn't believe my eyes.

What made it more ridiculous, was that by changing the way Tyrion and Jamie parted ways, they removed his entire motivation for him going to the Tower of the Hand in the first place.

In the books, Jamie tells Tyrion that Tysha wasn't a whore, but was in fact, a common girl who actually liked Tyrion and this new found knowledge drives Tyrion mad. This leads him to start needling Jamie about the fact that Cersei had slept with Lancel and other guys and to him fake admiting to murdering Joffery, then Tyrion stomps way in rage to the Tower of the Hand to confront his father about the truth, leading him to murdering Shae and Tywin.

In the show, he never finds out about Tysha, so he has no reason to risk his new found freedom by going to the Tower of the Hand, yet he does. Why? scratch

. He shouldn't be anywhere near there.

D & D have made the massive error in the show of keeping the actions of characters the same, but changing their motivations, which makes people like Robb Stark and Tyrion look like complete bafoons.

by BarrileteCosmico Sat Nov 29, 2014 11:32 pm

Dante wrote:
That the actress proved to be better than anticipated is so true , i actually think what you say was confirmed ? That they chose to deepen her character on purpose , seeing she could pull it off. As for the rest , i actually take it back. That about future reasons and all e.t.c. . Yes i agree with how you put it basically. Even if there's future reasons involved , your argument i agree completely , what i said there would almost pass in second fate. Good points.

Yeah I was making reference to that previous statement, not presenting it as my own conclusion.

by zigra Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:11 am

"In the show, he never finds out about Tysha, so he has no reason to risk his new found freedom by going to the Tower of the Hand, yet he does. Why? scratch. He shouldn't be anywhere near there. "

Soooooo true. I'm all for changing some stuff in the show but that was just poor and even a lot of the people who didn't read the books said it felt as if something had been cut out. Tyrion is coming from the cells, tries to get to the ships yet he somehow teleports into the tower of the hand...... why? To tell his father he's leaving Kings Landing or what did he want there? Jesus. Don't even want to think about it too much.

Too be honest a few months after watching it I think season 4 has been the worst season so far and by quite some distance, too. Still good but it should be way more than just that.

by BarrileteCosmico Sun Nov 30, 2014 12:19 am

What? Of course he does, his father sent him to death when he was innocent, he has every reason to want to "settle that debt"

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