Ideal Team

Conner????? scratch scratch

Evgen Konoplyanka

We usually spend 35-40 mil net in the summer window and didnt spend anything in the Jan window this year as well.Also with the new TV deal and extra 40mil due to it we should atleast have 70-80 mil to spend this summer to strengthen for CL.

Thats not taking into account the outgoing sales as well.

---------Mignolet---------
Johnson-CB--Sakho-Enrique
-----Gerrard---Bender-----
Kolo------Suarez------Reus
---------Sturridge---------

-------------Jones-------------
Flanagan-Skrtel--Agger-Robinson
------Henderson----Lucas------
Raheem------Allen------Coutinho
-------------Borini-------------

Think we're definitely going back for Conner in the summer. And his price will have gone down even further since his contract will only have 1 year left. Rumor was around the 8mill range.

Benatia, Kroos, Reus, and Shaw would be the dream signings

But I guess I could live with Conner, Pjanic/Rakitic, Papa, and Calum Chambers.

Yes the 19 year old Southampton Chambers impressed me a lot today. Personally think he was much better than Shaw going from this one game.

Shaw was better last night, and has showed A LOT more consistency (for almost 2 seasons now) and tonnes of improvement than what Chambers has.

No doubt Chambers is a decent prospect, but Clyne IS better and Luke Shaw is better than both, so I'm a tad confused tbh.

I'm still not sure how Toni Kroos is an unrealistic target. We WILL have money to spend (I honestly won't be surprised if our net spend excedes 50m this summer), and every single media outlet is saying Manchester United is in the front position to sign Toni.

For starters, they won't be playing Europe next season, and they've spent over 60m on players (Mata + Fellaini) that essentially play Toni Kroos position, so I don't know why we're not monitoring the situation. Toni Kroos, on his own, gives 2 massive steps forward.

Benatia, Kroos, Reus, and Shaw would be the dream signings

-----------Mignolet-----------
Johnson-Benatia-Sakho-Enrique
-------Gerrard----Lucas-------
Suarez-------Kroos-------Reus
-----------Sturridge-----------

But I guess I could live with Conner, Pjanic/Rakitic, Papa, and Calum Chambers

-----------Mignolet-----------
Johnson--Papa-Sakho--Enrique
-------Gerrard----Lucas-------
Kono-------Rakitic------Suarez
-----------Sturridge----------

just had some time to go through few posts and some good posts there and Erdivisie seems to be on the top of everything.

Since, it is an ideal thread, I would go for Hummels (or any defender like him) and Kroos (if he is to leave, I dont think there is any chance Utd will get him, there will be loads of clubs who will sell their existing talent to buy him)

Borini is going to be some player for us next season.

Suarez / Struddige / Sterling / Borini / Konoplyanka (maybe 10-12mil) will be excellent depth

Ideal targets for me are Isco and Marco Reus. If we could get one of those I would be on cloud 9!

yes Borini has shown some character and very hard working player, i thought we had paid those 11m only for his movement but he seems more than that

BVB wont sell Reus.They already lost Lewendowski and Gundagon seems certain to go.No way they will let Reus go.

Also if there is a chance Gundagon is willing we should go all out to sign him.Would suit our system perfectly

Wont cost too much with just a year remaining in his contract as well

I'm certain Reus has a buy out clause BG.

Red Alert wrote:I'm certain Reus has a buy out clause BG.

But won't there be toooooooooo many suitors for that? We cannot compete in those high stake biddings yet! Can we?   

What's happening with Matiudi and Fernando Reges?


__


@ Fahim: Well the buy out clause is 40m Euros iirc.

Not too many top teams in the PL need Reus if he wants to come to England.

Maybe Arsenal I guess, but will they provide the cash?

City might go for him just because they can, but I don't think they will. They'll probably fix their defence and get some midfield depth.

Chelsea have Hazard already.

Spurs, Everton can't afford him. He'd be an idiot to go to Manchester United.

Not saying he would want to come, but I'm sure if we go for him he won't just say "no" without any thoughts. We are on the rise, or I wouldn't have changed my user name.

Fahim89 wrote:

Red Alert wrote:I'm certain Reus has a buy out clause BG.

But won't there be toooooooooo many suitors for that? We cannot compete in those high stake biddings yet! Can we?   

Yes quiet a few top clubs across Europe would fancy Reus and we don't have enough pull to sway the player to us neither we have the inclination to even enter in a meaningless bidding war. I think that's why we have a persistent interest in Kono. If you ask me, I would rather go after Gunda or Bender and wouldn't mind going an extra mile in pursuit of either of them.

Red Alert wrote:What's happening with Matiudi and Fernando Reges?


__


@ Fahim: Well the buy out clause is 40m Euros iirc.

Not too many top teams in the PL need Reus if he wants to come to England.

Maybe Arsenal I guess, but will they provide the cash?

City might go for him just because they can, but I don't think they will. They'll probably fix their defence and get some midfield depth.

Chelsea have Hazard already.

Spurs, Everton can't afford him. He'd be an idiot to go to Manchester United.

Not saying he would want to come, but I'm sure if we go for him he won't just say "no" without any thoughts. We are on the rise, or I wouldn't have changed my user name.  

Well Reus do have a release clause and a very long contract, 3 more years. But it seems very unlikely that they will lose Lewa, and possibility of losing Gündogan; so Dortmund would very reluctant to sell anyone else. I am sure Kloppo would be able to convince Reus to stay at Dortmund. It seems highly unlikely to get him in this summer. But if he becomes available, we can go for him if Kroos is not available. According to current scenario, I would preferably have Kroos and Kono than Reus to add to our current attacking depth.
But I get goose bumps to even to think of seeing Kroos or Reus in red shirt

Yeah, Kroos and Kono would be better than just Reus.

As of now (and subject to change) semi-realistic:

Keepers:
Mignolet
Jones
Ward

No need to change, IMO. There don't appear to be any real bargains to be had for back-up keepers or youths. As Jones has appeared a decent option it's an area we shouldn't bother wasting time or money on.


CBs:
Höwedes
Sakho
Skrtel/Agger
Kolo
Wisdom

It seems likely one of Agger or Skrtel will leave. I'd guess that Agger will fetch the higher price (especially if Barca finally firm up their interest with Puyol going) so he may be the one to go, especially with Sakho likely to stake claim to the LCB position) though if City come back for Skrtel perhaps it could swing the other way. Skrtel, as a RCB may have more claim there, but Agger is one of the squad's vice-captains which negates that advantage to a degree. Neither has, in my eyes, outshone the other this season in performance (with both making notable mistakes and neither dominant in the air, though surprisingly Agger has been our more efficient and effective aerially) so it's 50/50 as to which should be kept, for me. If one or both goes, however, we do need an immediate and direct improvement as a replacement. I don't think the likes of Caulker, de Vrij, Indi, or others suggested provide that, especially in organization. Mignolet has not shown himself to be a vocal organizer of those ahead of him this season and I think that's been one of the key issues with our backline; an issue that's been exacerbated by the injury-enforced rotation. Höwedes ticks all the boxes of what we need in my opinion. He's vastly experienced, familiar and comfortable on the ball while also generally dominant off of it, and he's a defensive leader. The main question is whether we could tempt him away from Schalke given he's so far been a one-club man. While Kolo's received attention for all the wrong reasons in recent weeks (or months?) he did start the season out very strong and I think as a back-up player he's still got what it takes to do a role for us. I'm a bit conflicted as to whether to loan Ilori and Wisdom out... even with 4 competitions I'm not sure that either/both would see much game time with 4 more senior CBs ahead of them in the depth line-up. As Ilori has the higher potential at CB (from what I've heard, not necessarily seen) and Wisdom provides a bit more versatility in his ability to cover at fullback, I'd probably opt to give Ilori a full season to develop with consistent game time and keep Wisdom around.


RB:
Johnson
Kelly
Flanagan

Johnson's inclusion is conditional on his return to form and willingness to sign a new deal on lesser wages. He's never been consistent (performance or fitness wise) to justify 100+k in wages though he's shown glimpses of the ability in fits and bursts. Given the other areas that need strengthening and potential changes in the backline, however, I would like to see him around for at least another season or two. The other options really choose themselves. Kelly, if he can maintain fitness (I've begun giving up hope and expect him to be another Aurelio) is a very good option and Flanagan is showing a real resurgence this season. Add Wisdom to that and you've got some real depth, allowing us to potentially rest Johnson for the CL/big matches to avoid injuries or fatigue hurting his form.


LB:
Shaw
Enrique

Yes, Luke Shaw is a Chelsea fan. Yes, he will likely command a free upwards of £25m. However, he will also provide a club with a proper LB option for a decade if they can tie him down and continue his development and he's familiar with the philosophy and style we ask of our fullbacks. Keep in mind I did say this was SEMI-realistic... Enrique's knee injury doesn't sound good at all, so the RBs can provide cover for depth as Johnson and Flanagan can both play well on that side.


Midfield:
Lucas
Gerrard
Kroos
Henderson
Allen
Coutinho
Luis Alberto
Schneiderlin?

Options, options, options. I like our midfield 3. I like the style we use for our midfield 3. I expect it to continue into next season and I do think it would be just a wee bit unfair for any of them to be dropped semi-permanently. However, there's no denying we need depth, and that we could always use a bit more quality. I fully expect Kroos to either sign a new deal with Bayern or end up at one of the financial "super-clubs," and that group doesn't include ManUtd. That said, if he doesn't sign with Bayern there's always a chance, slim as it may be, that we could nip in and snap him. A player of his quality on the market is rare indeed and a chance I'd hate to see us let slip. Given Gerrard's age I do think that he'll start to need some rotation and rest with 4 competitions going, even if he won't admit it. Even in his current holding role (and yes, he has definitely been playing as the deepest midfielder since January, heat maps, statistics, and general consensus all support this) his stamina is flagging a bit and making the work required a concern, especially when the other mids push forward.
Henderson, Allen, and Coutinho are all still relatively young and should be ok with some rotation given that they'll all see time when we're faced with 4 competitions. Each player provides a unique set of abilities that will allow Rodgers to adapt as is necessary for opponents and/or situations. My only concern is that we'd still be lacking another defensive option in the even that Lucas struggled to find form after his latest time off or picked up another lengthy injury. Schneiderlin is an option but I hesitate to build a squad of more than about 24 players as I feel that's getting into bloated territory.
I'm just not sure what options would be available that would accept a squad role. I'd also be tempted to loan Luis Alberto out, because as much as I like what I've seen from him, it's been a very limited bit and he needs game time.


Attack:
Suarez
Sturridge
Konoplyanka
Sterling
Borini
Aspas

Our attack has been one of the best in the league and even in Europe, despite our depth consisting of Victor Moses and a well off-form Iago Aspas. I'm not sure if Aspas is simply struggling to adapt to the league and his injury lay-off or if he's really not able to handle the increased pace, physicality, and "quality" from his previous club. I'd be willing to give him another season to find his feet, provided that he wasn't our main go-to player should either of our first choices get injury. Overall I don't think the attack needs too much changing or adding to, though having one or two game-changing options on the bench is always a definite plus. To that end, bringing Borini back in and adding another wide attacker would make a huge difference. Consider the possibility of having Borini and Sterling on the bench to bring on this season rather than Aspas and Moses. Sterling's even made the case for retaining that starting spot himself, to be honest, though with his age I'd hope he'd understand taking up a rotation/bench role for another year or two despite that.



Loaned out:
Suso
Ilori
Teixeira
Robinson
McLaughlin
others

Loans are difficult as you can never really be certain when you'll wish you had some extra depth. Trying to balance real playing time with proper depth is an issue I've always struggled to wrap my head around so some of these will either be quite contentious or painfully obvious. Suso has stated that, should he extend his deal with LFC which runs out in 2015 (seems likely) he'd like to spend another year on loan in Spain. I'd be happy to oblige so long as we can bring in the depth to cover that midfield/attacking squad area. Teixeira could also use some proper playing time at a first team level. Luis Alberto certainly fits into that category as well. Two fo the three, I'd think, could go out on loan while one would remain for depth. CB is another area similar to the midfield as mentioned... My reasoning (weak as it may be) has been explained in the CB discussion paragraph. The rest of the loans really pick themselves, I think.






Now if you want a truly "Ideal" team then simply drop Thomas Müller into the attack (and remove Aspas) and add Strootman to the midfield options at the expense of Allen. Perhaps also add in Lahm for Johnson, and a CDM (Schneiderlin?) to the midfield options. As Is aid before, I don't like to build up a squad of more than about 24 or 25 outfield players as I feel the squad starts to get a bit bloated and unwieldy, and that's not even considering the wages associated.

Keep in mind that these are my SEMI-REALISTIC (i.e. possible but fairly/very unlikely) choices and not at all what I actually expect to happen.

RedO speaks.

Agree with what you say but the Gerrard part...  

Doesn't mean much what the heat map and stuff say. He can be playing deep, but he's not been playing as a defensive midfielder.

Alonso was a "deeper" midfielder for Liverpool than Mascherano was, but who was the DM in the team?

Gerrard is simply playing the same role he was last season, just at a deeper level. Henderson has given up his attacking role and he's playing a lot more disciplined now. Well, if you exclude the last 2 games where he's been given that freedom to roam which in return, has affected Coutinho's performances. Henderson's intercepts and tackles has doubled since Lucas has been injured playing in that disciplined role. All in all, EVERY midfielder (that includes Coutinho, too) has been playing at a deeper level, looking to defend and hit the opposition on the counter. Gerrard may or not be the deepest, (I still see it as a 4231 as Coutinho was really, the only one to have the freedom to roam forward before the last 1 and a half games) but Stevie has not been the DM in the team. He's pretty much playing a deep lying playmaker role from last season, at a deeper level.

But yeah, other than that, I agree wholeheartedly. Howedes, Schneiderlin and Kroos were pretty much my ideal signings. You have 2/3.

As I said, Gerrard's statistics suggest he's the most defensive midfielder for us as well, as he has been AVERAGING a higher amount of tackles, interceptions, and aerially duels than the other midfielders, as while operating just ahead of or at times in between, the centerbacks. The only match where that hasn't really been the case is the Southampton match, but then Henderson's tackles all came along the wing while Gerrard's were still toward the center of the pitch. He's simply been filling in both as the most defensive of the midfielders and as the passing hub. That's not necessarily the same thing as being "a DM"... it just makes him the more defensive CM. But that's not the point of this thread so I'll leave that discussion at this.

No point responding then.

Just a quick question, and I know this is YOUR ideal team but I was just wondering why you would keep Alberto in the team, and loan out Suso again. Can you elaborate on why? I think the better option would be to keep Suso in the squad (he look's like he's progressed nicely in the Liga) and Alberto has "stagnated" due to lack of opportunities.

EDIT: Just read that Suso wanted to stay in Spain. Never mind.

A) The Suso quotes you've already seen.
B) I said I'd like to loan out Alberto if possible as well.
C) I chose to keep Alberto around and loan out Suso because I feel current Suso would benefit more from another season of consistent football. He arguably has a higher ceiling and should be given the chance to find it. I also think that, even though we haven't seen it, Alberto has a bit more versatility as he can play a more traditional CM role as well as the CAM/WF/CF role that he and Suso can fill in for (with varying degrees of success).

We've seen relatively little of Luis Alberto this season for whatever reason, but what little we've seen has, to me, shown a player who is calm beyond his years and quick of mind on and off the ball. Honestly, Luis Alberto has made me think of a more attacking Joe Allen, able to calm things down and keep things simple and moving in the attacking third the way Allen did a bit deeper against Swansea. Suso looks a brilliant little player, but I think he'll end up more like Coutinho, a player who forces the attack and moves things forward (often brilliantly) rather than one who can calm things down and simply keep possession moving and manage a game. That's just my read though.

Reading Suso's quotes, I think he's just been put in an awkward position from the media asking if he'd like to stay in Spain.

There's reports out there that he wants to leave Liverpool permanently and stay in the La Liga; which is a U-turn from a couple of months ago where Suso stated (on the lfc.com website) he'd like to come back to Liverpool and his future was with us.

I think it all depends on how Rodgers see's the situation. I'd personally keep him (this is the ideal thread after all ).

We're in 4 competitions next season (the league, CL and 2 domestic cups) so we'll have a lot of games, and we haven't been in the CL in years. It's going to be a physically demanding season for both experienced and the younger players with more exposure to first team football.

Massive summer ahead.

Who's your alternative to Howedes? I can't think of any CBs that could compliment Sakho*. I personally would like to see Varane but I see him as an unrealistic target.

His quote is that he'd like to stay in the Spanish first division "for another year" if he extends his contract with Liverpool. So he's basically stating that he'd like another season long loan with Almeria assuming that he is offered a new deal with LFC and they stay in La Liga. Once you get past 24 players or so in a squad you start running into playtime issues even with 4 competitions, especially since the CoC and FA Cup don't overlap too much.



Alternatives to Höwedes? Ideally we won't need one.

Fair enough.

So your outs would be Reina, Assaidi and one of Skrtel/Agger?

And maybe Aspas... can't really decide on him. Those are the permanent deals I'd be looking at, yes.