Ideal Team

Fingers crossed with European competition. I would love to see it, but unfortunately I have a hard time seeing Heereneveen competing hard beyond this year without Finnbogason who is almost surely gone in the summer and it seems like Ziyech will not be far behind him. Maybe some shrewd moves can be made by van Basten. Such is the life of a poor club...

That said, honestly, Finnbogason would be amazing in Liverpool. His finishing ability is second to none, IMO, and with the style that Liverpool plays he would have so many chances to score and is great at attaching to through balls and getting in behind defenders.

I'm very skeptical of players coming from Eredivisie these days. In the past it was kind of a given that players that did well would probably become top players (Ibra, Sneijder, VDV, Robben, Suarez, Kuyt, etc, etc). But nowadays you've got players who do exceptionally well in the league and they struggle mightily when the make the move to a bigger league. Bas Dost, Luuk De Jong, Altidore, Bryan Ruiz, etc.

I really don't want anymore players at Pool that won't improve the first team right away. If we make CL, we must look at higher caliber players and not youngsters with high potential.

Finnbogason is 25 and in his prime. Not really a youngster with high potential (not sure if your two comments were meant to go together or not).

The problem is that you have to look at more than just their results. Sometimes teams are built to focus on one player, or a player is put in a role that they can succeed. The question is whether their skillset can adapt to not being that 'go-to' guy on a bigger club. If you watch Finn play he would fit perfectly in at the middle striker position in Liverpool (again, he wouldn't likely be a starter, but adds to that much needed first team depth). The fact that he's so clinical and hard working only helps his cause.

McAgger wrote:I'm very skeptical of players coming from Eredivisie these days. In the past it was kind of a given that players that did well would probably become top players (Ibra, Sneijder, VDV, Robben, Suarez, Kuyt, etc, etc). But nowadays you've got players who do exceptionally well in the league and they struggle mightily when the make the move to a bigger league. Bas Dost, Luuk De Jong, Altidore, Bryan Ruiz, etc.

I really don't want anymore players at Pool that won't improve the first team right away. If we make CL, we must look at higher caliber players and not youngsters with high potential.

I mean no disrespect to Kuyt, but he's a tier below the players you mentioned. You also forgot KJH. And it's still fairly early but Martens is doing some great stuff at Napoli I hear.

Trust me, everyone that actually watches the Eredivisie will tell you who's going to be a good player or who's just stat paddling.

Luuk de Jong is the only one that I'm surprised about as he's actually "flopped" outside the league as of right now (but to be fair at his time at Newcastle, he has no chance to turn that around. Team looks disinterested, and just finished for the season.).

Ruiz, as talented as he is, lacked work rate. Which pisses me off because he could of been a very good player if he took his game seriously. Just seems like he's playing the sport to pick up his wages, which is unfortunate...

What are the chances that Liverpool could get ahold of Sneijder? I've read before that he was linked here, and that Kuyt himself even tried to convince him to come here even though Kuyt was no longer playing here.

Sneijder being my all time favourite player would be just...amazing if he came here. Some think he's done, but he's still a top tier talent.

Was a talented player in his prime, but I'm not a fan of him anymore. He needs the team built around him, really. Lost all my faith in him the way he left Inter, too. He's almost 30 now*, he'd command a lot of wages and I'm certain he's fairly injury prone since 2010 although I haven't followed his career in the Turkish league.

*I'm all for signing for experienced players, but I don't want players that are past it/on the decline.

Red Alert wrote:Was a talented player in his prime, but I'm not a fan of him anymore. He needs the team built around him, really. Lost all my faith in him the way he left Inter, too. He's almost 30 now*, he'd command a lot of wages and I'm certain he's fairly injury prone since 2010 although I haven't followed his career in the Turkish league.

*I'm all for signing for experienced players, but I don't want players that are past it/on the decline.

Sneijder is only 29 and has seen a resurgence in form in Turkey. Chelsea needs to be careful on Wednesday because he is a big game performer and still a very dangerous player. The wages are definitely an issue, though I've heard rumours that he'd accept a wage cut to come play in the premier league. Hopefully he lights up Chelsea and shows the EPL that he's still got it because he does and it will show at the WC this summer. Put him on a high octane offensive team like Liverpool and he will really shine.

That said I'm a bit biased towards Dutch stars being Dutch myself, but I am a bit surprised that Liverpool hasn't been mentioned more with the likes of Afellay, Wijnaldum, Klaassen, Blind, Maher or Fisher (even Siem de Jong). Especially Fischer and Klaassen after they put on a clinic against Liverpool not even a peep about the Reds being interested in either of them. Veltman, de Vrij and van Rhijn would all be great options to bolster the back-end as well.

  

We definitely need to sort out the full-back positions.

I think Criscito and M.Richards would be good solutions, even though I'm not sure whether we'll be interested for them this summer, but I hope we can get full backs of such quality in the summer.

Also, I'd love if we manage to get Kroos, but that's almost impossible.

BusterLfc wrote:We definitely need to sort out the full-back positions.

I think Criscito and M.Richards would be good solutions, even though I'm not sure whether we'll be interested for them this summer, but I hope we can get full backs of such quality in the summer.

Also, I'd love if we manage to get Kroos, but that's almost impossible.

I remember you mentioning Richards previously and me commending you on that. However, I find it quite unrealistic, although not impossible. I agree we could do with a full-back, especially when considering Cissokho is only on a loan and likely not to be bought permanently. Flanagan, Robinson, Kelly, Wisdom: I just don't see them being good enough. But I haven't got any names in mind whom we might buy, so I'll just wait and see. Just really hope Enrique will be back next season and in his pre-injury form...

*I've stolen some of your posts from the general section here El Cujo*

El Cujo wrote:

Red Alert wrote:Vertonghen hints at move if Spurs fail to get CL.

Get on it Rodgers...lord knows Liverpool could use the defensive help.

We missed out on Vertonghen when he went to Spurs. We have no use for him now. We have two similar players in Sakho and Agger already at the club. Not too mention Spurs won't do business with us unless we overpay.

El Cujo wrote:Lol...which big brother is that from anyway?

Also why has Liverpool not been linked with Klaassen or Fischer? Both fill a need, both are incredibly talented (and young, which Rodgers likes) and they destroyed Liverpool as youngsters.

Fischer and Klaassen are both far too young. Fischer has also struggled this season which shows that he's still very inexperienced and very raw but has all the talent in the world to be one of the best players in the world in the future. He misses Eriksen, imo. Klaassen has only made a debut season so we're still not sure how he's going to be next season although he is class. We need players to make an impact right now as we have a lot of youth/young players already at the club.

El Cujo wrote:

Sneijder is only 29 and has seen a resurgence in form in Turkey. Chelsea needs to be careful on Wednesday because he is a big game performer and still a very dangerous player. The wages are definitely an issue, though I've heard rumours that he'd accept a wage cut to come play in the premier league. Hopefully he lights up Chelsea and shows the EPL that he's still got it because he does and it will show at the WC this summer. Put him on a high octane offensive team like Liverpool and he will really shine.

That said I'm a bit biased towards Dutch stars being Dutch myself, but I am a bit surprised that Liverpool hasn't been mentioned more with the likes of Afellay, Wijnaldum, Klaassen, Blind, Maher or Fisher (even Siem de Jong). Especially Fischer and Klaassen after they put on a clinic against Liverpool not even a peep about the Reds being interested in either of them. Veltman, de Vrij and van Rhijn would all be great options to bolster the back-end as well.

I'd personally stay away.

I don't know what's happened to Afellay tbh. Was a class talent that's been wasted by injuries / sitting on the bench at Barcelona.
Wijnaldum won't be good enough.
Klaassen/Fischer I've explained.
I'm starting to agree with you on Blind. And I'd take de Vrij right now too.
Maher I'm sitting on the fence with. He's somewhat struggled at a "bigger" club in PSV but he's played a lot deeper than he was last season. I think next season will determine how good he really is.
Siem de Jong is good but we have better I think.

BusterLfc wrote:We definitely need to sort out the full-back positions.

I think Criscito and M.Richards would be good solutions, even though I'm not sure whether we'll be interested for them this summer, but I hope we can get full backs of such quality in the summer.

Also, I'd love if we manage to get Kroos, but that's almost impossible.

Full backs are fine. It's been a problem this season because GJ and Enrique have been out for a long period of time.

We might need to sign one with Cissokho's loan coming to an end but it's not really a major area we need to invest in imo.

Also I'm fairly certain Criscito is getting paid a lot in Russia and that's why teams from the Serie A have stayed away.

Kroos might be impossible but it won't be wrong to try. He has a year left on his contract at the end of the season and doesn't have a guaranteed position at Bayern; he'll have that here. It might be a similar situation to Sakho. Have faith.

Red Alert wrote:We missed out on Vertonghen when he went to Spurs. We have no use for him now. We have two similar players in Sakho and Agger already at the club. Not too mention Spurs won't do business with us unless we overpay.

Nah I'm well aware. I just don't think that Agger has much of a future in Liverpool anymore and we need solid, reliable centrebacks. He was just someone that was brought up that would be a good fit in Liverpool but I'm aware he's not a realistic target.

Red Alert wrote:Fischer and Klaassen are both far too young. Fischer has also struggled this season which shows that he's still very inexperienced and very raw but has all the talent in the world to be one of the best players in the world in the future. He misses Eriksen, imo. Klaassen has only made a debut season so we're still not sure how he's going to be next season although he is class. :DWe need players to make an impact right now as we have a lot of youth/young players already at the club.

Much like Sterling is far too young? The thing is those two are better than any youth that we have on the team besides Sterling, and are perhaps even better than he is. Having a bit of brash youth isn't a bad thing, and on top of which moving forward they are only going to get better. I know that it's better to gamble on established talent especially when going for Europe or the Title, but both of those two are going to be top level players.

Red Alert wrote:I'd personally stay away.

I don't know what's happened to Afellay tbh. Was a class talent that's been wasted by injuries / sitting on the bench at Barcelona.
Wijnaldum won't be good enough.
Klaassen/Fischer I've explained.
I'm starting to agree with you on Blind. And I'd take de Vrij right now too.
Maher I'm sitting on the fence with. He's somewhat struggled at a "bigger" club in PSV but he's played a lot deeper than he was last season. I think next season will determine how good he really is.
Siem de Jong is good but we have better I think.

I can respect your opinion, but I still think you're wrong about Wijnaldum. He's a top class young player that would only look better playing with top class players. He's got such an awesome skillset the only reason, IMO, he isn't already at a big name club is because of injuries. He's a better talent than a few of the ones that have been signed out of the Eredivisie of late.

Red Alert wrote:Kroos might be impossible but it won't be wrong to try. He has a year left on his contract at the end of the season and doesn't have a guaranteed position at Bayern; he'll have that here. It might be a similar situation to Sakho. Have faith.

More likely to get Isco, IMO. But regardless they are two that are very unlikely to even come to Liverpool even if they are available.

My "top targets" look like this (in order of best to worst left to right):

Defenders: Mats Hummels (lol), Mario Fernandes, Martin Montoya, Stefan de Vrij, (Daley Blind?)
Midfielders: Toni Kroos, Ivan Rakitic, Ignacio Camacho, Wesley Sneijder (Daley Blind)?
Attackers: Yehven Konoplyanka, Georginio Wijnaldum, Viktor Fischer, Luciano Vietto

Add depth, some experience, depth and even youth if possible. I would absolutely love to sign Fischer to back up SSS, but I dunno. Maybe someone more experienced (and older) with European competition would be better that also wouldn't mind taking more of a back-up or squad rotation type role.

No more young talents that might develop in the future and will possibly end up on loan and subsequently sold >.<
We need a top notch signing like Kroos.

I think we can all agree that the dream signings for us will be Kroos.

If only it was possible.   

McAgger wrote:I think we can all agree that the dream signings for us will be Kroos.

If only it was possible.   

Kroos and Isco indeed. I would love to have either. Even if the reputation of the rumour is in question I don't mind being linked to the latter. It's not the first time with Liverpool/Isco rumours. If indeed we make CL ball and Rodgers is true to what he has been saying it would really send shocks throughout the PL.

Also I know that someone mentioned Gerrard being in a deeper role now so Isco being his 'long term replacement' isn't realistic, but Gerrard has not always played in this role and his best days were not there.

Anyway, one can dream I suppose.

El Cujo wrote:
Nah I'm well aware. I just don't think that Agger has much of a future in Liverpool anymore and we need solid, reliable centrebacks. He was just someone that was brought up that would be a good fit in Liverpool but I'm aware he's not a realistic target.

Much like Sterling is far too young? The thing is those two are better than any youth that we have on the team besides Sterling, and are perhaps even better than he is. Having a bit of brash youth isn't a bad thing, and on top of which moving forward they are only going to get better. I know that it's better to gamble on established talent especially when going for Europe or the Title, but both of those two are going to be top level players.

I can respect your opinion, but I still think you're wrong about Wijnaldum. He's a top class young player that would only look better playing with top class players. He's got such an awesome skillset the only reason, IMO, he isn't already at a big name club is because of injuries. He's a better talent than a few of the ones that have been signed out of the Eredivisie of late.

More likely to get Isco, IMO. But regardless they are two that are very unlikely to even come to Liverpool even if they are available.

My "top targets" look like this (in order of best to worst left to right):

Defenders: Mats Hummels (lol), Mario Fernandes, Martin Montoya, Stefan de Vrij, (Daley Blind?)
Midfielders: Toni Kroos, Ivan Rakitic, Ignacio Camacho, Wesley Sneijder (Daley Blind)?
Attackers: Yehven Konoplyanka, Georginio Wijnaldum, Viktor Fischer, Luciano Vietto

Add depth, some experience, depth and even youth if possible. I would absolutely love to sign Fischer to back up SSS, but I dunno. Maybe someone more experienced (and older) with European competition would be better that also wouldn't mind taking more of a back-up or squad rotation type role.

Sterling may be young, but he’s ready. Fischer may or may not be better in the future (I’m split for minds here, I rate them both so highly ) but he’s not even ready at Ajax right now; let's be real. The same goes for Klaassen. And Bakkalli too. They need a couple of more seasons in the Eredivisie before moving abroad.

I’ve always found Wijnaldum overrated. Great flair, pace and skills and all that, but I never rated him as a footballer. Who’s he a bigger talent in comparison to a player moving to a ‘big’ club? Unless you’re talking about the likes of Jozy, struggling to think who you’re taking about.
I’ve only seen Isco linked with us from the unreliable caughtoffside. Classy player, but I’m not too sure Real Madrid will let him go for cheap after how much they invested in him. He’s still very very raw as a player. With the same amount of cash, we can get Kroos or Hamsik, who are better.

I want us to stay away from youth as much as possible this summer. We’ve spent 60m since Rodgers has been here just for the future. The CL makes or breaks teams. We NEED to stay in the top 4 next season and I’m not sure buying youth is the right way to go. Especially if you look at how good our academy has been in the last couple of years.

Red Alert wrote:Sterling may be young, but he’s ready. Fischer may or may not be better in the future (I’m split for minds here, I rate them both so highly ) but he’s not even ready at Ajax right now; let's be real. The same goes for Klaassen. And Bakkalli too. They need a couple of more seasons in the Eredivisie before moving abroad.

Bakkali I agree on, but while Fischer has definitely struggled this season saying he's not even ready at Ajax is a bit of a stretch; meanwhile Klaassen is destroying the Eredivisie I wouldn't really say he's not ready. Sterling made a huge jump this year when given the opportunity, and I wouldn't rate him as a better talent than either Klaassen (very different players though) or Fischer and he has had his own struggles previous to this year. I don't think a couple more seasons in the Eredivisie would be bad for either of them (it would be good) but I'd still like Liverpool to get in and loan them out if necessary because they are top talents.

I’ve always found Wijnaldum overrated. Great flair, pace and skills and all that, but I never rated him as a footballer.  Who’s he a bigger talent in comparison to a player moving to a ‘big’ club? Unless you’re talking about the likes of Jozy, struggling to think who you’re taking about.
I’ve only seen Isco linked with us from the unreliable caughtoffside. Classy player, but I’m not too sure Real Madrid will let him go for cheap after how much they invested in him. He’s still very very raw as a player. With the same amount of cash, we can get Kroos or Hamsik, who are better.

I think that Wijnaldum is better than Strootman, Van Ginkel and Bony for example (though they didn't necessarily move to 'big clubs' besides Van Ginkel). I guess we just rate him differently -- he combines all those attributes and dominates in the Eredivisie right now, but playing with the talent that Liverpool has in a similar system would be great to watch.

Isco is better than Kroos or Hamsik, and younger by a fair margin. The rumoured offer from Liverpool is 37m and if I had to choose between Kroos and Isco for that price it would be Isco every day. I read that Liverpool was asking for Isco (plus cash) when there were rumours of Suarez going to Madrid. I don't think that Kroos is a realistic target, but again, I'd prefer Isco anyway.

I want us to stay away from youth as much as possible this summer. We’ve spent 60m since Rodgers has been here just for the future. The CL makes or breaks teams. We NEED to stay in the top 4 next season and I’m not sure buying youth is the right way to go. Especially if you look at how good our academy has been in the last couple of years.

I see where you are coming from, and I don't disagree. I just think that it's easier to justify squad rotation to younger, talented players than it is to have older first team level players sit on the bench a lot. Though there are certainly some out there that would come for the prestige of the big club and CL games. The reason I like to also have a lot of talented youth is because they are very hit and miss...the more you have the more likely you are to develop a star.

Fischer isn't ready for a big move just yet. Klaassen will be the same. This is his first season; it's the second and third (that shows consistency) that makes the player. Sterling started off strongly last season, then faded a bit because he wasn't ready. Sterling has progressed well this season, and is doing very good right now because he was managed right. (I told you all ) Fischer is somewhat going through the same stage right now. I have no doubt de Boer will fix the problem, and get him playing well again.

van Ginkel is class but I'm not sure Chelsea was the right move for him, Strootman is a tier (or 2) above, and well, I think Bony has all the tools to be a class forward. He was mismanaged under Laudrup, not too sure how well he'll do now and if the team is based around him but he is complete. I don't know, I rate those 3 above Wijnaldum. He's (Georginho) been doing well lately, but I don't think he'll make it a top top club, maybe a mid-table club pushing for the Europa. (Swansea/Soton etc)

Kroos and Hamsik are both better than Isco IMO. Isco again, might be better in the future, but the other 2 have the experience and quality right now; and they'll only get better. They get consistent games in, while Isco again, is still very raw and is still inconsistent. Somewhat similar to Draxler. WC talent, but not a WC footballer yet.

Yeah, but that's the thing, we already have A LOT of talented youth. Like, A LOT.

Coutinho is still a kid; Teixeira looks like his injuries are behind him, Suso is doing very well in the La Liga outperforming world cup winners, we invested quite a bit in Luis Alberto.

Sterling and Ibe look very good. Borini is another.

Henderson is still developing, so is Allen. Chiverella (sp?) and Rossiter... list can go on.

For the defence, we have Ilori, Coates, Wisdom, Flanagan, Robinson...

I'm sure I'm forgetting many.

Obviously they're not all going to make it, but we have enough youth right now. Our team is filled with youth, and not much experience or CL quality.

Look at our starting XI right now, which player has played in the CL in the last 5 years? Sturridge, Coutinho maybe? Sakho I'm certain too. But there's not many. Yes, Skrtel, Gerrard and Agger etc all played in the competition, but that was 5 years ago now. I just don't personally see why we'd continue to invest in youth.

We could discuss Wijnaldum forever. :)I think that he rates better than those three and can make an impact on a top club (how Afellay went to Barca and Wijnaldum is still in the Eredivisie is beyond me!) He has the tools to be a world class player, but I don't think he ever will be. A good first team player on a big club someday IMO, but maybe not you could just as easily be right.

EDIT: Although for some reason I keep forgetting about Depay. He's a guy that will move to a bigger club than PSV sooner than later. Willems is another player on that team Liverpool should look at with their need at fullback.

I'm aware of our wealth of young talent. That's a good thing. We also have experience in guys like Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Lucas, Suarez and Enrique. Realistically what we should be bringing in are great footballers regardless of their age (huge potential is a bonus!). Isco is a great footballer -- whsocored rates him better than both Kroos and Hamsik (by a fair margin in Hamsik's case) and it passes the eye test for me. Younger, better and not getting consistent 1st team playing time...it makes him a juicy target, but again Liverpool hasn't been a destination for established top level players for some time. Hopefully being a CL team and having an exciting brand of football changes that.

2 defenders (a full back and a centre), 2 midfielders (one holding at least) and an attacker that are all first team quality is ideally what Liverpool targets this summer. Specific names aren't really that important right now, but as long as they are first team quality I'll be happy.

EDIT: Further to my last paragraph...

In a perfect world: Ricardo Rodriguez, Mats Hummels, Yann M'Vila, Isco and Yevhen Konoplyanka.
A more realistic world: Jetro Willems/Dennis Aogo, Steven Caulker, Ignacio Camacho, Roberto Firmino and Yevhen Konoplyanka.

Imagine if all of our committee's main targets were actually signed by us


*Hendo or Coutinho

Bench: Costa, Coutinho, Sterling, Salah, Agger/Skrtel, Lucas, Allen
And you've also got Suso, Kolo, Borini, Flanno, Kelly, Wisdom, Ilori, Alberto, Teixeira, Aspas, Ibe, Coates for more squad depth.

Won't include Willian because seems like we went for him only because Mkh and Costa fell through.

Would've looked really good me thinks.

Papadoupoulous isn't better than Agger or Skrtel.

He is a backpup for Howedes, Matip and Santana at Schalke.

I would prefer us to sign Garay, but I don't think we will go for a CB in the summer, I just feel it.

Papa is only backup to those guys because he's been injured for the past 12 months or something like that. H'es only played like a combined 10 minutes or so.

@ El Cujo: I mentioned Depay a few pages back.

I'm not in agreement with Afellay either. The kid was class. Just made a stupid career move and never got any game time so stagnated/regressed.

But seriously, from your own list:

guys like Johnson, Skrtel, Agger, Gerrard, Lucas, Suarez and Enrique

How many of them have played CL in the last 5 years? It's just Suarez, and he didn't make it past the groups iirc...

We need proven quality with CL experience with them I think. I mean, the players above don't know what it's like to play 2, sometimes even 3 games a week. Not too mention the quality of the teams are going to be harder. Next season is going to be very demanding for the players. So yeah, I'm not really a fan for buying for the future.

As for Isco, I don't like using whoscored as a source, and I very much disagree with them (whoscored) if they rate him higher than both Hamsik / Kroos.

@ McAgger: We wouldn't have signed Conner if we signed Salah. We also wouldn't have been in for Costa / Willian if we got Mkhitaryan. But where would we be with Mickey? We'd probably had run away with the league.   

@ Buster: I haven't seen Schalke at all this season, but does his injury return have anything to do with that? Does he look like he can recover from his injury?

That's where you are wrong RedAlert. Conner was going to be a target for us irregardless of what happened to Salah. The committee had planned Salah for this winter and Conner for summer '14. When Salah failed, they just went straight in for Conner.

And I did acknowledge that we weren't going to be in for Willian had we gotten MkRyan. And yeah you're right about Costa. But I included him since he's having a beast of a season

And yes I agree signing Mkhi in the summer would probably have won us the league.

Source for Conner was actually a summer target?

All I've seen is we'll most likely go back for him in the summer because we missed out on him.

Conner?????    

Conner????? scratch scratch

Evgen Konoplyanka