Re: UEFA U21 European Championships (Israel, June 5th - June 18th)

by halamadrid2 Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:20 pm

Great game by Spain but you could see they ran out of legs at the end. Thiago was the stand out player all the others played sublime. Moreno didn't have his best game.

Thiago wearing Canales' jersey and not taking the second penalty Proud

my appreciation of him has increased by 1%.

The only area Spain will have difficulties producing talent is the defence I don't see any of these making the jump but I could of course be wrong

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:24 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
The only area Spain will have difficulties producing talent is the defence I don't see any of these making the jump but I could of course be wrong

Upfront too.....but it doesn't matter as their midfield dominates every single game.

by B-Mac Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:31 pm

Clockwork Orange wrote:
B-Mac MUFC wrote:Thiago wearing Canales jersey as he lifts trophy....classy

welcome to United

Why would he go to a club that kills talent?

Veron, Diego Forlan, Anderson, Nani, Rooney, Kagawa, the list goes on and on. Manchester Uniteds coaching is the worst out of any 'big' clubs.

lol Kagawa was injured half of last season...and was playing brilliant at end of the year, so calm down there.

and Rooney is 10x's the player he was when he arrived....one of the most complete footballers around.

you conveniently leave Ronaldo off that list i see :coffee:

Guess Scholes and Giggs are forgotten too...fact is some players just aren't good enough i.e. Anderson, Veron....Nani has the talent but only when he wants to apply himself

by halamadrid2 Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:34 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
The only area Spain will have difficulties producing talent is the defence I don't see any of these making the jump but I could of course be wrong

Upfront too.....but it doesn't matter as their midfield dominates every single game.

Nah the front is quite packed also. Rodrigo, Morata, Raul de Thomas, Alcacer so many great players to choose from

but defence there is literally nobody in the centre who we can say for definate is good enough to start for Spains senior team

btw dominating the midfield is usually how you win games. football tactics 101 Rolling Eyes

by Adit Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:37 pm

Spains CBs were very poor. Farta and Inigo both were very slow to react in multiple occasion.

by Adit Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:40 pm

and Verrati cant defend at all.One of the worst tacklers out there...every time it is a yellow card.

by Arquitecto Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:42 pm

Italians have to be the most reactive managers out there.

Allegri's needless switch to 4-3-3 in the 2nd leg v Barcelona killed Milan's chances of a resolute defence and gap-less formation.

Cesare Prandelli's needless change to 4-3-1-2 within the Euro 2012 Final with a tired and fatigued Italia.

And Devis Mangia's perplexing change to the 4-4-2 which destroyed any chance of a victory considering it destroyed the use of Verrati, Florenzi and making them do mostly defensive work while Insigne is NOT a winger.

I am proud of our win yet our squad is composed of mostly experienced individuals compared to Italia's Serie B backline and young prospects who hardly have had games, not based on their ability.

Its also funny because our U-21 squad has players who are far better than the first teamers which reflects on us shooting fish within a barrel.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:45 pm

halamadrid2 wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
The only area Spain will have difficulties producing talent is the defence I don't see any of these making the jump but I could of course be wrong

Upfront too.....but it doesn't matter as their midfield dominates every single game.

Nah the front is quite packed also. Rodrigo, Morata, Raul de Thomas, Alcacer so many great players to choose from

but defence there is literally nobody in the centre who we can say for definate is good enough to start for Spains senior team

btw dominating the midfield is usually how you win games. football tactics 101

Rodrigo and Morata are not great..... Raul De Thomas and Alcacer are irrelevant at this point.

by Gil Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:47 pm

Morata has potential IMO.

But yeah these generation of Spanish strikers aren't in the Raul, Torres, Villa class.

Most countries can't produce strikers nowadays lol.

That's why average talent like Cavani, Falcao, Gomez and Higuain are so highly rated. No Henry, R9, Drogba, Shearer, Eto'o, Ibra etc in sight.

by Arquitecto Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:51 pm

Mole is right.

I love Morata with all my heart now after proving a lot of us wrong and v Rodrigo who was f**king shat for us throughout the tournament.

Yet both of them will never blossom into top-class players worthy of our starting line-up for La Roja. We do have serious problems up front. Basques have literally stopped producing the typical Basque False complete False 9 for #10s like De Marcos, Ander & Muniain while the other talents we have are talented yet aren't goalscorers

BTW

5m: Italia now within the span of 1 year have lost:
-U-17 Euro Final v Russia
-U-21 Euro Final v España
-Euro 2012 Final v España

Italia some serious chokers here.

Although two of them products of needless reactivity from the managers

by Adit Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:56 pm

Morata definitely has the potential to become better than the likes of Soldado/Negredo. His problem is inexperience in top class football hence why the decision making is bad...but his ball skills,speed and control is top class for a 189 cm tall forward.

by halamadrid2 Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:57 pm

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:
halamadrid2 wrote:
Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:

Upfront too.....but it doesn't matter as their midfield dominates every single game.

Nah the front is quite packed also. Rodrigo, Morata, Raul de Thomas, Alcacer so many great players to choose from

but defence there is literally nobody in the centre who we can say for definate is good enough to start for Spains senior team

btw dominating the midfield is usually how you win games. football tactics 101

Rodrigo and Morata are not great..... Raul De Thomas and Alcacer are irrelevant at this point.

Rodrigo is 23 and doing excellent in Portugal don't let these five games cloud your judgement. Morata was splendid this tournament won the golden boot in his first tournament with spain u19 and same with u21 if we don't get a striker and give him solid minutes I think he will be joining the Euro squad in three years. Kid is only 20 years old as well Proud

Alcacer is one heck of a striker but like Sarabia Getafe are destroying him bit by bit. Raul de Thomas will be a future goat if he continues to develop like he is doing. Like I said Spain are packed up frlnt. Defence is their issue

by Valkyrja Tue Jun 18, 2013 7:59 pm

Adit wrote:Morata definitely has the potential to become better than the likes of Soldado/Negredo. His problem is inexperience in top class football hence why the decision making is bad...but his ball skills,speed and control is top class for a 189 cm tall forward.

Better than Negredo/Soldado would be a great backup IMO.

by Arquitecto Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:02 pm

You're overrating our talent Hala.

Rodrigo is merely a good player yet thats where it ends. Even in Portugal he has been inconsistent and tactically lacks the awareness needed in the box.

Morata has been excellent within U-21 Euros yet looks mostly out of his depth within top-echelons of football. Even when not scoring within the Euros he missed deft chances and doesn't have the ability to score goals out of nothing. Better than Negredo and Soldado? I think at best he'll be at their level but nothing more.

The rest like Alcacer and de Thomas haven't proven anything enough to be called outside future prospects. Haven't proven anything.

by Great Leader Sprucenuce Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:05 pm

Rodrigo is not doing excellent, he isn't even a starter.... you forget i visit a forum which is packed with Benfica fans Laughing

Plus he was poor against us, Morata may have been splendid in this tournament..... but that means absolutely f*ck all.... this is the same tournament where Roysten Drenthe and Ryan Babel have been stars in the past.

Also i don't care about Alcacer and Raul De Thomas, they are nobody kids who proven nothing.

When these players are consistently starting in a top league and not youth teams come talk to me.

by RealGunner Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:08 pm

Rodrigo will become a soldado-esque player rather than Torres/Villa/Raul.

I see much more in Morata

by Gil Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:10 pm

Think with the right coaching and patience Morata could be at least a Morientes.

by RealGunner Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:13 pm

Agreed Gil

by Onyx Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:13 pm

Morata's technique's good, he's tall and is a decent finisher. He's got potential and might provide Spain with an alternative with his height. Just needs to go to leave Real Madrid and be consistent at another club.

However I wouldn't mind having him as backup at Real Madrid.

by halamadrid2 Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:15 pm

Arquitescu wrote:You're overrating our talent Hala.

Rodrigo is merely a good player yet thats where it ends. Even in Portugal he has been inconsistent and tactically lacks the awareness needed in the box.

I can see Rodrigo being an upgrade to Soldado. Soldado due to us being stupid and sent him to Getafe took really long to blossom. Rodrigo is already good now he will be better in a year or two

Morata has been excellent within U-21 Euros yet looks mostly out of his depth within top-echelons of football. Even when not scoring within the Euros he missed deft chances and doesn't have the ability to score goals out of nothing. Better than Negredo and Soldado? I think at best he'll be at their level but nothing more.

Are you comparing a 20 year old kid to the top players in the world scratch

Morata has scored many goals out of nothing for both Spain and Castilla in fact 2 of hks goals this tournaments was chances he had created for himself and scored. he has countless of thkse for Castilla. This game he looked abit depressed and tried too hard to score maybe because the rumours of us getting a striker has intensified. As I said before in two international tournaments he has participated in he has finished as top scorer. Negrito would only dream of that and Soldado has only become good now. If we don't get a striker I can see him as a starter in no time

The rest like Alcacer and de Thomas haven't proven anything enough to be called outside future prospects. Haven't proven anything.

Internationally they haven't proven anything but they are looking like great prospects and should be playing for top teams soon. These two are more like players I can see make the jump to the senior team in 5 or so years they will only be in their early twenties then Proud

Just because Bilbao stopped producing talent doesn't mean all the others are the same

by halamadrid2 Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:16 pm

Gil wrote:Think with the right coaching and patience Morata could be at least a Morientes.

Thats what I see in him as well

by Adit Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:19 pm

Yeah,Morientes is exactly the player every one compare Morata to lol..

by Gil Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:23 pm

Hala's ideal Madrid XI

Casillas
Caravan Varane Ramos Marcelo
Illaramendi Sarabia
Isco
Jese Morata Joselu

Manager: Alberto Toril
Assistant: Halamadrid2

Bench: Adan, Nacho , Soldado, Mata, Borja Valero, Ronaldo

Proud

by Arquitecto Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:26 pm

Hala wrote:Are you comparing a 20 year old kid to the top players in the world Morata has scored many goals out of nothing for both Spain and Castilla in fact 2 of hks goals this tournaments was chances he had created for himself and scored. he has countless of thkse for Castilla. This game he looked abit depressed and tried too hard to score maybe because the rumours of us getting a striker has intensified. As I said before in two international tournaments he has participated in he has finished as top scorer. Negrito would only dream of that and Soldado has only become good now. If we don't get a striker I can see him as a starter in no time

What he does for U-21 Espana and especially Castilla is hardly relevant to how he will perform within La Liga or any other top league. When he has been given a chance, he doesn't exactly scream "Future Prospect" or highly valued player, but a striker who will be a late-bloomer and can be around the level of Negredo for example and even that is intangible.

Hala wrote:The rest like Alcacer and de Thomas haven't proven anything enough to be called outside future prospects. Haven't proven anything.

I don't deny their talent yet their propensity to if they will perform or not. As of now they haven't proven anything to suggest they will be a top level player for Espana in the future aside from goals within a mediocre Segunda.

Athletic? Ander, Muniain, Ramalho, Aurtunexte, Iturraspe & Javi all just recent talents produced between age 20-24 and all established starters and good ones at that. Hardly stopped producing talent hmm

by halamadrid2 Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:26 pm

Gil wrote:Hala's ideal Madrid XI

Casillas
Caravan Varane Ramos Marcelo
Illaramendi Sarabia
Isco
Jese Morata Joselu

Manager: Alberto Toril
Assistant: Halamadrid2

Bench: Adan, Nacho , Soldado, Mata, Borja Valero, Ronaldo

damn straight Proud

by halamadrid2 Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:33 pm

Arq what you fail to notice is when he played as a striker for Madrid he was great but had to move to the left wing this season because we already had two wc strikers. He hasn't been the best there because he isn't a LW hence why he has said he will leave if we get a striker. He simply doesn't see himself as a winger. If we ever think about selling Morata it will be to a top team and not Getafe/Almeria so no a late bloomer is out of the question.

out of that bunch only Javi is a successful dude. The others either are included in the flop eleven by marca or are there to make up a number for a team who hardly buy players and rely on homegrown Laughing

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