Dortmund vs Real Madrid

sportsczy wrote:Mourinho's biggest strength: Adapting tactics with experience. Once he sees a team and knows what to expect, he's the best i've ever seen at making the needed adjustments... and as all of you know, i don't like Mou. But you have to give credit where credit is due.

Dortmund was new to Mou and Madrid the last time around. This time, we have intel. And keep in mind that Madrid is in 1000x better form now than in the fall.

I don't see us losing to Dortmund.

sportsczy, been reading a lot of your posts and I agree with u Curious then, do u think Mourinho is the best manager? What about tactically? A lot of debate still about this and Im not sure, hes right up there, but is he the best without weaknesses? Obviously not, as u mentioned too, Real this season suffered in the first half due to the motivated and man management. Why do u think thats gone and fixed now?

The fact that he will leave again proves that this is his biggest weakness. I still want to see him prove himself long term and not being able to buy any player he wants

sportsczy wrote:

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Nah sports but for the likes of Ozil, Di Maria, Benz and CR the job to get in between the lines and create openings becomes a lot easier with Sahin instead of Bender/Kehl.

That's true. It just depends if Dortmund want to go balls out in the first game or will try to manage risk. I think they start with the same XI as in pool play and then adjust as needed with subs.

Good thing for Madrid is that Dortmund plays one way and one way only. They are similar to Barca in that sense.... they have their style and they will stick with it. Mou loves this kind of rigidity.

Klopp will have to show his worth as a tactician for Dortmund to beat us again.

So Klopp is newer to the top level scene from what I know, but hes good enough to match Mou's tactics u think? Its interesting to know Real worked out their style now and its very good counter attacking to suit playing Barca, but not as effective against park the bus... but i dont think its that bad obiously and easy to stop Real, surely they are much better and complex than just parking, and pressing Alonso.... I sitll think they are better than Dortmund overall by a distance....

sportsczy wrote:Did you watch the games the last 2 years between Bayern and Dortmund? Bayern was getting torched. They were arse kickings often. Now, the games are even. The difference seems massive to me. Previously, Bayern had no idea what to do with Dortmund.

So what exactly have Bayern done differently now compared with b4?

sportsczy wrote:Of course, some people (myself included) would say that Badstuber's absence has been an act of god in Bayern's favor...

Ive been wondering and asked somewhere else, Badstuber I thought is their best CB, so what do u mean here?

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Reus vs someone

sportsczy wrote:

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

sportsczy wrote:Mourinho's biggest strength: Adapting tactics with experience. Once he sees a team and knows what to expect, he's the best i've ever seen at making the needed adjustments... and as all of you know, i don't like Mou. But you have to give credit where credit is due.

Dortmund was new to Mou and Madrid the last time around. This time, we have intel. And keep in mind that Madrid is in 1000x better form now than in the fall.

I don't see us losing to Dortmund.

This is such bullshit. How many times has Mou lost a game this season because of the same game plan Dortmund used by other la liga teams? What has he done to create a convincing team when in possession and diversify the avenues of attacks?

We don't lose games because our tactics are wrong. The problem is not that. We play the exact same way as we did last year when we broke the record in points and goals scored in La Liga. The issue? Bad form, injuries and quirky lineups cost us early... we didn't get going until January. Mou also failed as a motivator this year in the first part of the season. Now, we just don't care about La Liga. We just use those games to rotate players and make sure everyone is ready for CL.

I'm the biggest Mou critic in the world. I don't like his overall tactics because i don't think it's very attractive. But in big games and against good sides.... Mou is the best i have ever seen. Just as en example, as soon as Nani got the red, he subbed in Modric and immediately shifted the shape of the team into a 442 with both Higuain and CR7 in the box. It took SAF 10 mins to react... in that time, we put the game away with 2 quick goals. I don't need to tell you how he's neutralized Barca now. His tactics from December 2011 and now are night and day.

He is an arse and his tyrant method has a short lifecycle. But he hasn't done what he's done with multiple teams in multiple leagues because he's not an elite manager. That you can't take away from him.

BarrileteCosmico wrote:

sportsczy wrote:We don't lose games because our tactics are wrong. The problem is not that. We play the exact same way as we did last year when we broke the record in points and goals scored in La Liga. The issue? Bad form, injuries and quirky lineups cost us early... we didn't get going until January. Mou also failed as a motivator this year in the first part of the season. Now, we just don't care about La Liga. We just use those games to rotate players and make sure everyone is ready for CL.

While I'm not saying that didn't have an issue on your games, that is not the main problem. The problem is that small teams started parking the bus vs Madrid in a much higher quantity than before, realizing that Madrid are not very good when playing on possession. This is because Mou has built a team designed to beat Barca - and it has, since Barca will never squander possession this year Madrid have been very effective against us - at the expense of diversity of play. The problems are quite clearly tactical when Madrid has lost points to the same exact tactics, which btw, were the same ones used by Dortmund.

sportsczy wrote:Madrid goalkeeping and CBs are much stronger. Of course, CR7 makes Reus look like a puppy in comparison despite Reus being very good.

Other difference is depth. Madrid can come in with 3 impact-making subs in every position. Dortmund's subs are not at that level.

sportsczy wrote:Modric and Benz were off form and the midfield is Alonso-Khedira with Essien as the backup. Ozil didn't get going until January. Marcelo was injured for 3 months. We can't break PTB teams unless our creative players are on. We were trying to break teams with Coentrao-Arbeloa overlapping, Alonso-Khedira in the middle, an off form AM until January, CR7 on the left, an off form Di Maria and an off form CF... Mou did a bad job with his motivation and his man management. He had everyone pissed off at him and many were not performing as a result. But everyone did PTB on us last year too and we absolutely destroyed them.

In retrospect, i can't really blame the tactics because the personnel wasn't right. However, i do blame Mou for splintering the locker room and causing unnecessary anxiety... that's the big culprit.

If hes so good and fixed the problems now, why do u think he will not stay at Real? And what do u think about his end at Chelsea last time? I always thought he lost out to Fergie for 2 seasons and were dropping standard b4 he got fired.

I agree, written in the stars factor obviously has nothing to do with it, a lot of teams each season have their reasons and stories and runs, but in the end, only one of the fairytales come true if any

Too bad still but it feels nothing like that at Barca, since we've won it so much....but our version would be, to finally meet and best Bayern, and then El Classico, the ultimate game in the CL final and to beat them and win, that would be perfect and truly memorable!!!

sportsczy wrote:Mou hasn't fixed anything imo. Players fixed themselves because we're talking about great players who have personal drive and want to prove themselves. You also have a lot of loyalty to Real Madrid, not Mou. Finally, some of the guys need to show well so that clubs are interested in buying them in the summer.

Mou and the players have found overlapping objectives... that's all it is.

Klopp is good.... very good. But Bayern is doing to Dortmund what Madrid does to Barca: Namely, they have decreased the spacing between their lines when they play Dortmund. There's just not as much room for the quick passing Dortmund loves. Also, Bayern's talent is just better this year. You have Mandzukic, Javi Martinez and no Badstuber.... just a better team.

Mou is going to squeeze the spaces on Dortmund and push them to make decisions they're not used to. Can the Dortmund players adapt? Can Klopp adapt his tactics?

The other big q is: Will Madrid's much better form translate to better play against Dortmund?

The pressure is on Dortmund in the first game since it's at their house. We'll see how they handle it. Madrid has been to 3 straight CL semis with the same players for the most part... this will be nothing new for Madrid.

Great explanation thx. But then it sounds like each and everyone for themselves, which seems to be a part if forced upon themselves and maybe not every player loves Mou like the rumours say

Klopp I remember watching them get beaten 5-1 by Bayern 3 seasons ago and still got an image of a droky looknig guy with glasses looking angry and lost I didnt know much about him but certainly didnt think he would became such a force with his team

All factors considered, Real has gotta be favoured. Since many mentioned Mou will react and change to counter Dortmund and Real players work ever so hard and Mou's instructions are usually so good, so lets see if Klopp can
deal with it.

So sportsczy, maybe off topic, but what do u think about Real vs Barca which could well happen too for the final. Do u think now that Real have found how to counter us, then it will stay that way and Real are better?