Is away goals rule counter-productive?

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Post by VanDeezNuts Thu Mar 14, 2013 7:25 am

Was doing some reading and came across this article. Thought it would be a good discussion topic since I did a search and couldn't find anything.

Imagine that on Tuesday night, rather than playing that late free-kick short so Milan lost possession and conceded a fourth goal, Robinho had hurled it into the box. Imagine Philippe Mexès had jumped for it, the ball had taken the merest brush off his pony-tail and that had been enough to take it past Victor Valdés. That would have made it 3-1 on the night, 3-3 on aggregate and Milan would have beaten Barcelona on the away goals rule.

Except they wouldn't really have beaten them, would they? They'd have gone through by an arbitrary regulation so familiar that we tend just to accept it. Or take the other game: at 0-0 Schalke were going through on away goals, at 2-2 Galatasaray were; two level scores, two different outcomes. In the end, of course, Umut Bulut's goal gave Galatasaray a 4-3 aggregate win – but his goal came about because Schalke had committed players upfield as they knew they were going out on away goals.

Or take Wednesday night: if Arsenal beat Bayern Munich 2-0, do they really not even deserve extra-time? If Málaga beat Porto 2-1, do they deserve to go out? Or on Thursday, in the Europa League: Newcastle defended superbly to draw 0-0 away to Anzhi in the first leg; if a defensive slip-up costs them an early goal, why should they have to score two to avoid going out? Why does it matter whether the slip-up came in the fourth-minute of injury-time in Moscow or the first minute at St James'?

This is the first problem with the away goals rule: it simply isn't fair. It makes certain goals count for more than others. When M'Baye Niang's shot hit the post at Camp Nou he was effectively denied not a goal but a goal and a half. If that generated good football, made games more exciting, then perhaps the inherent illogicity of the rule could be tolerated. But it doesn't. In fact, it achieves precisely the opposite of what it set out to do.

The away goals rule first made an appearance in European football in the Cup Winners' Cup in 1965, primarily to eliminate the need for replays, which were costly and difficult to arrange. Given the alternative was flipping a coin, it probably seemed the lesser of two evils and, besides, back then it made a certain sense. Only 16% of all European away games then resulted in an away win. Away trips were difficult: travel was gruelling and away teams would often face unfamiliar and/or hostile conditions. As a consequence, the tendency was for the away side to bed in, look to absorb pressure and try to keep the score down. In the 1964-65 European Cup, for instance, three of the 30 ties featured leads of two goals or more being overturned.

A 2-0 deficit was seen as eminently recoverable. What the away goals rule did was to try to persuade teams that a 3-1 defeat was better than a 2-0 defeat, to encourage at least an element of risk-taking.

But circumstances have changed. In each of the last five years, between 30 and 35% and matches in European competition have been won by the away side: even if you wanted to make the argument that the away goals rule has worked, the original rationale for its introduction has gone.

"In competitions where conditions, home and away, vary greatly — in, say, the African Champions League — away wins remain very hard to come by," Ian Hawkey wrote in Issue Zero of The Blizzard. "Poor, or fearful, refereeing would count as a factor in Africa. So would vastly distinct standards of playing surface, or the fact that a pair of matches in two-legged tie might easily take place in different seasons: winter in Tunis is scorching summer in Cape Town. In those circumstances, the away goals rule clearly has an important compensatory value. But in the European Champions League, it scarcely does. Where the European Cup of the 1960s and 1970s was exotic, with a greater range of destinations and opponents, the modern format is repetitive, cliquey."

Transport is better now, there is a great homogeneity of conditions while the differences between a German side and a Spanish idea, say, or a Russian side and a French side, are far less than they were.

Teams are cosmopolitan, national styles less distinct than they once were. Away trips simply aren't as frightening as they once were and so the away goal becomes a weird distorter.

To see how this can spoil football, you only have to look at last season's Champions League semi-final between Bayern Munich and Real Madrid. Bayern led 2-1 from the first leg. Real Madrid, seeking an early equaliser at the Bernabéu started furiously and struck twice in the first 14 minutes. That forced Bayern on to the attack and they made it 3-3 on aggregate with a 27th-minute penalty. It had been a thrillingly hectic opening half hour, and then the game died. Bayern looked to protect a level position on away soil, while Real were inhibited, knowing that if they conceded one they would have to score two to stay in the tie. Bayern behaved just as any away side would; Real were forced on the defensive by the away goals rule: far from encouraging the away team to play progressively, the away goals rule encouraged the home team to play more cagily.

It's a stance widely taken among coaches. "I believe the tactical weight of the away goal has become too important," Arsène Wenger said at a conference in 2008. "Teams get a 0-0 draw at home and they're happy. Instead of having a positive effect it has been pushed too far tactically in the modern game. It has the opposite effect than it was supposed to have at the start. It favours defending well when you play at home."

So the regulation is unfair, it's illogical and often achieves the opposite of what it's supposed to do. Why do we still put up with it?

So do you think too much weight is being put on away goals? Should there just be extra time and PKs when tied on aggregate regardless of away goals? Replay?

What do you think?


edit: original article http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2013/mar/13/the-question-football-away-goals

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Post by Art Morte Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:24 am

I think the away goals rule is fine. Not a problem.
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Post by Red Alert Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:28 am

Art Morte wrote:I think the away goals rule is fine. Not a problem.
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Post by Donuts Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:44 am

I dislike the rule, prefer the game to have more extra time / penalty shoot out dramatic endings rather then get away goal then park an airplane.
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Post by Vibe Thu Mar 14, 2013 8:58 am

I've always had a problem with it.

The less calculation,the more beautiful football.I am also an adversary of the offside rule,it should be either banned or rewritten.
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Post by Donuts Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:27 am

Vibe wrote:I've always had a problem with it.

The less calculation,the more beautiful football.I am also an adversary of the offside rule,it should be either banned or rewritten.
..? what? lol
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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:18 am

I agree and I agree with Wenger. I borders on stupid in my opinion.

3-3 is a draw. Because I scored 2 away from home doesnt matter, its still a draw.

I think the rule needs scrapping completely.

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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:21 am

And I do realise it will mean away teams will play defensive football, I dont like that, but its still better than this odd situation where if you lose 2-0 and then win 3-1 your going home.
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Post by ExtremistEnigma Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:32 am

Donuts wrote:I dislike the rule, prefer the game to have more extra time / penalty shoot out dramatic endings rather then get away goal then park an airplane.

This goes both ways. If the match goes into extra time, then the home team will have a greater advantage because of the home support. And penalties are purely based upon luck.

Away goals rule is decent. The only other way is to play the matches at neutral venues.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:38 am

I dont like pens either, but at least someone actually won the game. Going through on a draw is just silly.
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Post by che Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:50 am

yea, the rule is stupid

*this opinion has nothing to do with the fact that we conceded two away goals to psg... nothing at all
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Post by Eivindo Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:57 am

If Niang scored it would have been ok, but he didnt so the rule just sux. :coffee:
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Post by punkfusion1992 Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:25 pm

hate the rule, always hated the rule

3-3 is a draw, not a win for the other team. They just need to take it to OT and Pens. The fairest way so far of choosing between 2 equal teams
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Post by elitedam Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:45 pm

I think the away goals rule is arbitrary and takes the excitement from a lot of games. I would favor extra time and then penalties to decide the winner.

Also, isn't the team that plays at home in the second leg the higher seeded team? They would deserve to have that advantage if the game goes into extra time.
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:52 pm

I don't see what the problem with the away goals rule is, it affects both teams, and it avoids many extra times and penalties, which take a huge toll on players.

What's the argument in the OP exactly? That the other team should go through when tied? They should go into extended time?
Meh.
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Post by Zealous Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:16 pm

Don't see a problem really. Both teams play on a level playing field in terms of rules. Want to take advantage of the rules? Try to score more away goals. It's an option that's is available to both teams and I see nothing wrong with that.

If you want to argue that it lowers the overall quality of some games then that is a different issue imo.
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Post by The Franchise Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:17 pm

Nobody said its unfair, they said its stupid.
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Post by Zealous Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:26 pm

Fair enough but the rule not being unfair is why I don't have a problem with it or think it's stupid. If anything it adds a new dimension to games which I find interesting.

The rule was originally placed to encourage teams to attack when they were away from home. Some teams just choose to ignore it and play their own game but I definitely think it gives away teams something to think about which makes the game more interesting.
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Post by dronte Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:34 pm

punkfusion1992 wrote:hate the rule, always hated the rule

3-3 is a draw, not a win for the other team. They just need to take it to OT and Pens. The fairest way so far of choosing between 2 equal teams
How is that fair? Extra time favors the team who plays the second match @ home, +30 minutes with full home crowd, and penalties are mostly luck, doesn't seem fair either.

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Post by che Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:40 pm

well right now extra time favors the away team since they get half an hour more to score a goal that pretty much counts double...
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Post by andiii Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:46 pm

it's unfair, illogical and stupid
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Post by VivaStPauli Thu Mar 14, 2013 1:46 pm

che wrote:well right now extra time favors the away team since they get half an hour more to score a goal that pretty much counts double...

lol if you're already in extra time, either team's goal will be enough to win[
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Post by Blue Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:00 pm

I have always had a problem with it.

Probably our fixture against Barca in 09, made me hate it the most.

The game at Camp Nou ended in a scoreless draw, in the second game we scored an early goal and it took Barca until the very end of the game to get a draw. IDk it just doesn't feel right for a team to go through, when in 180 minutes of football they never took the lead and were losing the fixture for the majority.
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Post by The Nature Boy Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:19 pm

I don't like it, but the fair vs unfair argument is kind of silly, since both teams have a chance to score the away goal.

There are some situations where it works out in your favor and it irks people when it doesn't. 2003 CL vs real madrid, Juventus lose at the Bernabeu 2-1, turn the tie on its head by winning 3-1 in Torino. Both teams had an away goal, but one team scored 5 against 4... Either way, when you score more goals than the other team over the course of 180 minutes, you go through any way. If you play to win the game, this is your objective, score more goals than the other team. Whether you are home or away, in my opinion, you should play to win.

For this reason, I believe that the rule (while it is equally fair on both sides) doesn't necessarily decide a winner because there isn't one team that score more goals than the other. Whether attack or defense is emphasized or not, the objective is to score more than the other, and this rule shouldn't deter you from doing that.
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Post by Onyx Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:31 pm

Nah, it should stay. There's nothing wrong with.

However I don't understand the thing about it being introduced because of replays. Couldn't they have just used extra time and penalties?

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