Re: Copa del Rey | SF (Second leg) | FC Barcelona vs Real Madrid

by messixaviesta Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:20 pm

worms wrote:I say sell Alves while we can still get good money for him,he will only decline further from now on.

I say a club should be business like to an extent but not completely. You don't try to sell any stalwart and key player just because he is aging and you can still get good money for him.

Alves is one of the key corner stones of Pep Guardiola's all time great team whose contributions to its greatness are kind of immeasurable. You don't throw out such players. They either retire here or leave on their own terms.

Xavi is even older. Would you sell him even if some club fancies him to become their equivalent of Pirlo at Juventus and is ready to pay good money for him? Hell we'd sooner fall at his feet and beg him not to go.

BTW just a reminder our club motto is 'More Than A Club'. Even a normal club would not be so hard nosed and we are more than a club.

by messixaviesta Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:25 pm

The Franchise wrote:
Anyway, JD. Tough question..very different players.

Mangala is a better all around defender, better in individual duels, more sound and reliable..also a better athlete than Luiz, who is no slouch himself.

Luiz is better with the ball, no doubt..better passer, more comfortable in posession...if Luiz could recognise when is the time to pass, when is the time to dribble and when is the time to kick it out of play, he would be near flawless in that aspect of the game.

So its hard to say...also, I saw Luiz for 3 years, Mangala just 1 year.

In terms of actual defensive skill, I think yes Mangala impresses me as much as Luiz at the very least, probably more so.

dani, wonderful reply. This Mangala sounds like the right heir to Tarzan. Since we already have a ball playing center back in Pique they could make a great pair.

Wiki says he has only 19 appearances for Porto so far which is surprising. Also if he is that good he should be starting for the French national team as well.

by worms Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:18 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
worms wrote:I say sell Alves while we can still get good money for him,he will only decline further from now on.

I say a club should be business like to an extent but not completely. You don't try to sell any stalwart and key player just because he is aging and you can still get good money for him.

Alves is one of the key corner stones of Pep Guardiola's all time great team whose contributions to its greatness are kind of immeasurable. You don't throw out such players. They either retire here or leave on their own terms.

Xavi is even older. Would you sell him even if some club fancies him to become their equivalent of Pirlo at Juventus and is ready to pay good money for him? Hell we'd sooner fall at his feet and beg him not to go.

BTW just a reminder our club motto is 'More Than A Club'. Even a normal club would not be so hard nosed and we are more than a club.

More than a club is just a slogan,no need to take it so seriously.

Watch some of our games from a few years ago,Alves is half the player he used to be.

by Donuts Thu Feb 28, 2013 7:33 pm

#saveusmontoya

by The Franchise Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:47 pm

messixaviesta wrote:
The Franchise wrote:
Anyway, JD. Tough question..very different players.

Mangala is a better all around defender, better in individual duels, more sound and reliable..also a better athlete than Luiz, who is no slouch himself.

Luiz is better with the ball, no doubt..better passer, more comfortable in posession...if Luiz could recognise when is the time to pass, when is the time to dribble and when is the time to kick it out of play, he would be near flawless in that aspect of the game.

So its hard to say...also, I saw Luiz for 3 years, Mangala just 1 year.

In terms of actual defensive skill, I think yes Mangala impresses me as much as Luiz at the very least, probably more so.

dani, wonderful reply. This Mangala sounds like the right heir to Tarzan. Since we already have a ball playing center back in Pique they could make a great pair.

Wiki says he has only 19 appearances for Porto so far which is surprising. Also if he is that good he should be starting for the French national team as well.

Perhaps Wiki need to update, because that cannot be correct. This season alone he must have 19 at least.

Start for the French NT? They have some strong options to be fair...and plus, Mangala only recently blew up and still "only" plays in Portugal.

I believe he is close none the less though.

by BarrileteCosmico Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:01 pm

Messi is declining too btw, I say let's sell him while he's at his peak.

by CBarca Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:41 pm

worms wrote:
CBarca wrote:You're acting like Dani Alves is a defensive liability just because he pushes up on offense, though.

That's not the case, that's what makes Alves so good. Alves for as far forward as he gets has never been a defensive liability because his ability to get back or to force a turnover higher up the pitch (if it was on his side). In times that he might have been too far up and there was a potential counterattack, our great pressing ability would often nullify a potential counterattack before it happened.

I'd agree with you if Alves was constantly not back far enough and the right side was exposed because of it, but that's not the case.

Oh, and he's still the best RB in the world. Sell him?

Lahm is better now.

I say sell Alves while we can still get good money for him,he will only decline further from now on.

Lahm is most certainly not better right now and Dani Alves will not decline. He hasn't been declining the last couple years, why would he now? Alves is one of the most athletic freaks I've seen since I've started watching football. The man is a machine, I'm not expecting him to start declining.

Ignoring that, you're still looking at it the wrong way though- even if we sell him, how do we replace him? Promote Montoya to starting RB? He's a great prospect but I don't think I trust him that much, and he's a huge step down from Alves to be honest.

The only guy we could really buy that would be almost as good as Alves would be Lahm and he would cost more than we could sell Alves for.

So if we were to sell Alves, we would be losing quality. Barca is not a selling club, this is Barca- we DO NOT buy players who are a step down from what we have to make a few bucks- we don't need the money.

JD's comments on the matter are equally as valid a point for not selling Alves.

That's probably #1 on the list of ridiculous things you have proposed so far.

by The Sanchez Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:47 am

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi is declining too btw, I say let's sell him while he's at his peak.

by worms Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:27 am

"He hasn't been declining the last couple years"

Talk about ridiculous. :whistle:

by CBarca Fri Mar 01, 2013 3:37 am

Nice response mate.

Bugger off.

by billy_gr Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:14 am

The Franchise wrote:Nah, Pedro aint up to his old standards and I dont think he will ever be, but he is still servicable and if we rotated correctly wouldnt be a big problem.Alba on the other hand is a big problem because he is below our level at every aspect of the game other the occassional the overlap run.

Horrible defensively both positionally and the 1v1, even worse in the air, too busy asking for ref decisions to hustle and keep plays alive (that stuff with Di Maria in the corner was infuriating), gives the ball away because he takes too long to make a decision and on top of that, a better player is sitting on the bench watching him.

that's the problem right there mate.
name one big game where he didn't sart, even when his form is worrying to say the least

by danyjr Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:35 am

Let's see if your management learns from their mistakes. There's one thing making a mistake and another thing repeating the same mistakes again and again.

The worrying sign for Barça is that the problems have been there for a quite without being noticed. I mean this Madrid you got thrashed by were barely a great Madrid side. Out of the 4 goals you conceded over 2 legs, 2 were corner kicks and 2 were pretty much whack the ball and see what happens. That's Stoke City at it's best.

by futbol Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:15 am

The management can get f***ed. They start with Thiago and Tello in a title-deciding Clasico last season but now when Xavi is completely unfit and needs painkillers to be able to walk onto the pitch, they don't trust Thiago?! WHAT THE FKRIJAFOFJJ/)$%(=?!?!?!

The funny thing is that we'll see the same lineup against Milan again. You can bet your wife on it that the coaching staff thinks the only reason for the loss were Flopregases fitness issues.

by billy_gr Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:35 am

by worms Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:02 pm

CBarca wrote:Nice response mate.

Bugger off.

Huh?

Reported.

by rwo power Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:17 pm

People, would you please be so kind as to stay polite? You know, when I am forced to read this petty bickering, especially between the Barca and Real front, but also when people fight about certain players, it really gets tedious, old and boring, and it annoys me to no avail. Unfortunately as Mod I *am* forced to read that and just can't move along, so you run a fine line that I might get so annoyed that my hand gets forced to intervene, and you really do not want that.

So please
1. stay polite
2. don't insult others, and
3. don't tell others to go away (if you don't like stuff, it is always you who can go away and no one gets upset)

If you heed this, no one will get harmed. Otherwise consider this post here as the one and only warning and when I catch anyone compromising this good conduct, I shall take real action. Understood?

And now back to the topic.

by worms Fri Mar 01, 2013 2:28 pm

OK CBarca did you watch Dani Alves when he played for Sevilla and his first season at Barca?

How old were you when he had his first season for us? 12 am I wrong?

And when he played for Sevila 11 years old and less? Assuming you even watched football then how can you judge players accurately at that age?

by The Franchise Fri Mar 01, 2013 5:22 pm

And what if I say the exact same as CB, does that age nonesense still apply to me?

by messixaviesta Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:35 pm

worms wrote:
More than a club is just a slogan,no need to take it so seriously.

Watch some of our games from a few years ago,Alves is half the player he used to be.

Well I think it's more than a slogan but if you feel differently then so be it.

As for your comment on Alves all I will say is some of our stalwarts are no longer what they used to be. So neither will I single out Alves nor will I support the decision to sell any and every one of them.

by messixaviesta Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:36 pm

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Messi is declining too btw, I say let's sell him while he's at his peak.

Good one

by worms Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:19 pm

The Franchise wrote:And what if I say the exact same as CB, does that age nonesense still apply to me?

You are 10 years older.How is age a nonsense? Are we going to pretend 12 year old children are as intelligent as adults now? And have the same attention span as adults?

CB did you watch Dani Alves at Sevilla? Did they even show Sevilla matches in America when you were 11?

by The Franchise Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:30 pm

No, I am trying to say your using age to dismiss what he is saying, despite what he is saying being not incorrect at all.

I dont think age is important unless he is wrong, then we can say, well he is wrong because perhaps he didnt watch at 11 years old with the same knowledge and detail as now.

But this gets thrown away, when what he is saying, is not wrong.

Is Dani Alves the same as he was in Sevilla...of course not. He wasnt the naive player he was then, he has improved if anything, he is smarter, uses his brain more and his skills have not eroded...in fact, they have got better.

Does he overlap less now? Oh yes for sure.

Is he out of position now more than he used to be on the defensive end? Heck no.

This decline you speak of, I dont see it at all.

The only time anyone can say anything negative about Dani Alves, was funny enough when he was injured and hadnt strung together 4, 5 games in a row..which I dont think is coicidence.

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