Re: Carlo Ancelotti next RM manager watch

by Swanhends Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:56 am

Doc wrote:As I wrote in the RM section, I wouldn't dismiss Perez as some boo boo who knows nothing. The man, as arrogant as he is, knows the other side of football really well (the financial side) and does a pretty good job in keeping Real Madrid in the black. And in these very uncertain times, should not be dismissed at all.

Carlo is the safe option for Perez. Laudrup, Pepe Mel, Pochettino, etc. would be wonderful but unless they have someone in Real Madrid that have their back, they'll meet the same fate as deal Pelle. I wouldn't want Carlo to be hired but I don't have control over these things.

by sportsczy Mon Apr 29, 2013 7:32 am

You guys don't watch PSG. The quality of play has been putrid for several months now other than the big games... cannot build up an attack, always rely on counter attacks, rely on individual player brilliance, clueless against ptb tactics. Sound familiar?

by Mr Nick09 Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:31 pm

sportsczy wrote:You guys don't watch PSG. The quality of play has been putrid for several months now other than the big games... cannot build up an attack, always rely on counter attacks, rely on individual player brilliance, clueless against ptb tactics. Sound familiar?

by Zealous Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:46 pm

Real Madrid usually do fine against "smaller" teams anyway. If he can put us in a position to win big games then I'm OK with that.

Besides we have a squad with certain skill sets getting a coach who can use an approach that makes use of those skill sets isn't a bad thing.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Apr 29, 2013 1:54 pm

Zealous, havent we already seen that this approach that you will outtalent small fries and try to show up vs bigger teams is unproductive long term? if you dont actually use those small games to perfect whatever you are building then you are stacking the odds against you.

by Zealous Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:08 pm

We aren't a long term club though, never were and never will be.

What you're asking for takes time, time that won't be given.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:32 pm

so it's impossible to develop something consistent over the course of a season or two, while using smaller games to sharpen a specific way of playing? i find it hard to believe. when i say long term, i am not projecting 4 or 5 years forward. It's just that we are demonstrating a clear reluctance to hire people who actually instill a method, as opposed to people with CL on the resumes.

LOL @Modric behind Ronaldo on that sig rofl

by Zealous Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:41 pm

So reaching the CL semi's three years in a row isn't consistent? We've come up short on each occasion but it's a start and it shows this team has the potential to achieve that type of success. That type of consistency can only come with managers who have been there and seen it already. At Madrid a manager tinkering with systems in the league will get fired if he starts losing consecutive games and if you want to practice systems then losing games is a possibility. In a league where the margin for error is so small we can't afford that.

Tactis, systems etc. Too much is made of things like that when in the end it comes down to the players who play and managers who are experienced enough to guide that team to success.

(yeah Modric looks like he shat his pants lol)

by Mr Nick09 Mon Apr 29, 2013 2:54 pm

Of course it's consistent, and it's a great thing. Yet, this is the third year in a row where it looks like we are about to fall short. Seems to me like something is missing. that idea is even reinforced by the fact that we are about to fall short vs an opponent of similar strength and talent as our team. if we make a bilan, bayern, barca, dortmund and man utd are the best teams we played in the past 3 years. We all saw the games Z, we all saw the short comings. Also, i struggle to understand why "tinkering with the system" has a negative connotation. it doesnt mean swapping between 343, 352 or 442 week in and week out to me, i understand it as acually giving a team tactical and technical tools to approach different types of games. the problems we have had against all those teams are the same, we struggled to build up play from the back, we struggle to create offense when an expert defense is sitting on us, and we struggle to create offense in movements, even things as basic as doubling up the opposition on the wings is difficult for us to do. Why didnt we take time to develop that? it's the same counter play we do week in and week out and when we struggle to build from the back, we kick forward.

tactics and systems matter when you play opponents of similar talent level. Klopp has no experience yet he ass stomped mourinho who is a 2 times CL winner. i think we make too much of experience actually, for managers in particular.

by Zealous Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:05 pm

Klopp had nothing to do with Pepe having a terrible game. Even our goal came from a mistake made by a centre back.

Dortmund were the much better team and deserved their 4-1 lead. But from where I'm standing individual mistakes contributed the most to that scoreline. Tactics and systems are useless and pointless if you don't put in the effort and show that you want it more. That is where Dortmund won the game, they won most of the 50/50 duels and that kept us on the back foot for the majority of the game.

In any case there is no guarantee that Carlo will come to Madrid yet. There is also no guarantee that we will play the same way under him should he arrive. Let's wait and see what happens.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:13 pm

sure mistakes happen. and if that was a single game it would have been ok. yet, we played them 3 times, and lost twice. they seem to be able to generate far more clear cut chances than we are, and annihilate our ability to play long as well. i would have agreed with you if i didnt have the sample of all those games we played at a similar stage. And again, clearly, having an "experienced" manager didnt help us to win those 50/50 duels. All i am saying is, resume is vastly overrated for managers when we discuss a specific job.

Sure Carlo isnt here yet, but we can only draw from what he is currently doing, because i have a hard time believing he will transform his approach in a couple of months. I look at what he does, and it's quite poor. just pointing it out.

by ExtremistEnigma Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:24 pm

I think the problem with Madrid is that they have too many average players at the moment. Apart from Ronaldo, I can't seem to name any other world beater. Compare this to the class of 2003.. Ronaldo, Raul, Zidane, Figo, Roberto Carlos, Hierro, that's six world class players right there. I'm of the opinion that, given their squad, Madrid has been overachieving in the CL since the past three seasons. hmm

by sportsczy Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:29 pm

Problem z is that, other than Barca, we struggle against the other top teams. If Man U hadn't gone down to 10 men, we don't go thru. Dortmund has spanked us in 3 straight games now. Man City... required a miraculous last 10 mins to win at hom and got a draw on the road. Bayern took us out.

I have yet to see us truly put our stampmark on the elite scene. I understand you're not going to beat top teams comfortable just in general... but the problem is that we are actually coming out second best in terms of play. It's ok to lose. That's footy. But you want to lose because you were unlucky... not because you weren't good enough.

What Nick is trying to get at is that Madrid is not a standard in terms of playing style. It used to be forever... we were known to play really attractive footy. Now, we're going the "results and style be damned" route.

I want to think that Madrid has enough ambition to play good footy and win. Carlo is not that kind of manager unfortunately. He's good though... he'll get results. But Madrid is not going to be a team whose play will be entertaining under Carlo. PSG has been almost unwatchable for the last several months other than the Barca CL games.

by Zealous Mon Apr 29, 2013 3:48 pm

Hey I'm not crazy about it either. Of course I'd prefer us to have that dream style you guys want but that will not happen since there are too many obstacles in the way for us to have that kind of situation. It'll have to be lightning in a bottle because it's clear that atmosphere surrounding the club won't let that type of style grow organically.

by Mr Nick09 Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:20 pm

Zealous wrote:Hey I'm not crazy about it either. Of course I'd prefer us to have that dream style you guys want but that will not happen since there are too many obstacles in the way for us to have that kind of situation. It'll have to be lightning in a bottle because it's clear that atmosphere surrounding the club won't let that type of style grow organically.

but what obstacles? the press? i dont buy that. Actually, i dont see what's stopping us from going that way. Usually, it takes three things to make it happen. The personnel, the management, and the coach. we have the personnel and we lack in the other two. Mourinho had more time than any manager in the past decade to do absolutely anything he wanted with this team, and it didnt happen. why? he wasnt going to effect changes he is incapable of.

that's why i blame perez so much, because he doesnt understand that whichever way we go, we are going to have to "build" something. Even mourinho when he arrived started crying about how we should expect big trophies in the second year. that's was the greatest copout i had ever seen. Every manager needs time, some just use that time to instill stronger foundations in their teams.

the press loved mourinho when he arrived, how do people forget that. They started to lay on him when he himself started acting disgracefully. And those who actually spend a little time reading the papers in spain are also well aware that mourinho isnt just blamed for acting disgracefully as a madrid manager, but for his bland way of playing football. i read the same things in the spanish press that i post here about the football we play. But people will just remember that "the medias hate the manager", that's BS to me. and i know you read the papers in spain, 90% of madrid fans here dont even understand spanish, they care little for what the medias actually say. there are great journalists in Marca and AS that do their job professionally and get no respect for the legitimacy of their qualms.

by Zealous Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:29 pm

The things you are saying are nice but if we get a manager without pedigree he is going to have to win something in his first season. If he doesn't he will be fired like Pellegrini was and the same press you are defending will be the first to call for his head.

Perez is the president but he will make decisions based on what the people want or at least what they think they want. Marca, As etc these guys have huge leverage because they can affect public opinion. The same guy you love at first will likely be a target at some point.

by sportsczy Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:45 pm

We've never had managers last more than 1-3 years. Yet somehow we always played good footy before... it was a requirement of the club that every manager play good footy. Those few who resisted and didn't were shown out the door whether we won trophies or not.

Talented players can play good footy lol. And since they are so talented, it's not going to take several years to figure it out. Good managers also like good footy. Bayern, Juve, Dortmund and Arsenal play very nicely. In fact, even Man U plays a better brand of football than us lol.

Personally, i'm willing to live with rough spots for 6 months as long as we are improving and building an attractive system.

But right now, it can't happen. Why? CR7 cannot play in a build up system. It doesn't cater to his strengths. And you know he will cry about being unhappy and ask to leave if we do anything that doesn't cater to him.

by jibers Mon Apr 29, 2013 4:54 pm

Sports preach ffs. Someone else needs to take on Perez. The man is a joke. Turned Madrid into a financial powerhouse but has failed with the on pitch duties. Get Pepe Mel. And what you said about ROnaldo is someting I have been saying since, but Madrid fans hounded me.

Nick and Sports Proud

by Onyx Mon Apr 29, 2013 5:26 pm

Real Madrid director general Jose Angel Sanchez travelled to Paris to talk with Ancelotti about the arrangements of a deal. However nothing has been signed yet.

Apparently Ancelotti has said yes and there will be further meetings in the future to seal the deal.

During the meeting with Sanchez, Ancelotti gave a list of potential transfer targets.

http://www.mundodeportivo.com/20130429/real-madrid/carlo-ancelotti-relevo-jose-mourinho-banquillo-real-madrid-psg_54371636501.html

by sportsczy Mon Apr 29, 2013 6:06 pm

Carlo is too much of a class act to do anything before Ligue 1 trophy is won. Once PSG have nothing left to pay for, he will then make things public and sign the deal.

On the bad news front for PSG, Wenger has said that he still has 1 year left on his Arsenal contract and that he doesn't break contracts unless the club wants him to leave.

by Zealous Mon Apr 29, 2013 11:35 pm

sportsczy wrote:
But right now, it can't happen. Why? CR7 cannot play in a build up system. It doesn't cater to his strengths. And you know he will cry about being unhappy and ask to leave if we do anything that doesn't cater to him.

lol let's just wait and see what happens before we start scapegoating the player that's been carrying the club on his back for the better part of a year.

by sportsczy Tue Apr 30, 2013 8:26 am

Zealous wrote:
sportsczy wrote:
But right now, it can't happen. Why? CR7 cannot play in a build up system. It doesn't cater to his strengths. And you know he will cry about being unhappy and ask to leave if we do anything that doesn't cater to him.

lol let's just wait and see what happens before we start scapegoating the player that's been carrying the club on his back for the better part of a year.

. No scalegoating. CR7 is fantastic and it's absolutely a huge risk to think you would be better without him. That said, with him, you're limited to the style that fits his game and gou're dependent in most games om how he plays as a result. This is not an absolute rule but a general rule. Just personal preference... i likt a more team oriented game that focuses on several players, not just one.

Barca are starting to suffer from this too. They've become very messi-dependent lately.

I blame the managers mostly. they take the easy way out by not deversifying their tactics at all. But these players take some of the blame too... would they sacrifice personal stats for the betterment of the team? Not so sure.

by Zealous Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:26 pm

When you put it that way I agree. It's easy to use him as a crutch and the next manager will have to try to avoid that.

by Mr Nick09 Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:36 pm

it's actually going to be interesting to see if Carlo can adjust to CR. I dont think he has ever coached a dominant wide player like Ronaldo. Carlo made a career of coaching players that were all dominant in central positions: Pirlo, Rui costa, seedorf, kaka, sheva, drogba, ibra etc... CR is the first genuine star wide man that Carlo will coach, his usually narrow tactics are not suited for someone like Ronaldo, so it will be interesting to see how he arranges his formation from day one.

by Zealous Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:38 pm

This is assuming Carlo becomes our coach lol

by Mr Nick09 Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:41 pm

he is going to become our next coach, it's done. sig bet if you want, i would be delighted to lose tho.

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