Manchester United vs Real Madrid discussion

The Franchise wrote:There was no "excessive force", not idea what your on about.

He didnt even make a tackle, he didnt even know he he as in a tackle.

If he knew it was a tackle, missed and got Arbeloa by accident..I would agree, red card.

But he didnt even know Arbeloa was there.

Of course he knew Arbeloa was there! You don't sprint for a ball and extend your leg to chest height just to control the ball.

I Have Mono wrote:

barca 2011 wrote:Madrid had every major call go their way. Without going too much into it, that much can at least be said.

Spoiler:

Except this one

And the disallowed goal.

I Have Mono wrote:

barca 2011 wrote:Madrid had every major call go their way. Without going too much into it, that much can at least be said.

Spoiler:

Except this one

I thought Higuain's goal could have potentially stood as well.

50/50 header.

Oh look, the Gettysburg Address 2.0 has already started over on Redcafe

http://www.redcafe.net/f7/cueneyt-cak-r-367287/

ok can we stop discussing the nani red card and instead discuss that madrid should have been up 2-0 in the first half anyway?

justice got served today, madrid nearly got robbed

timzink wrote:btw how good was the flick by ozil in the lead up to ronaldo's goal, world class . also, van persie has to improve his finishing

He wasn't good but yeah from players like Ozil one moment like this can be Effective.

The Franchise wrote:There was no "excessive force", not idea what your on about.

He didnt even make a tackle, he didnt even know he he as in a tackle.

If he knew it was a tackle, missed and got Arbeloa by accident..I would agree, red card.

But he didnt even know Arbeloa was there.

Let's list exactly everything wrong with what Nani did:

1. High foot.
2. Cleat up.
3. Excessive force. And I by this, I mean you do not karate kick a ball to gain control of it. Nani viciously and excessively attacked that ball, in a manner that was reckless and unsafe.

That is why a red card is definitely an option. And although it did ruin the game for me, the ref had the right to make that decision. It was up to his discretion, and the choice he took was a perfectly valid one.

You may not like it, but it was a 50/50 call and there is nothing wrong with the referee's decision.

Defenders of the realm, is this not a red card?

Any clear gifs/videos of Nani's red card?

The Franchise wrote:There was no "excessive force", not idea what your on about.

He didnt even make a tackle, he didnt even know he he as in a tackle.

If he knew it was a tackle, missed and got Arbeloa by accident..I would agree, red card.

But he didnt even know Arbeloa was there.

edit : I said last thing before, but this is really the last thing. Yall can make your comments, but I am done because I think every relevant question has now been answered.

look at it this way Nani exceeded the necessary use of force to win the Ball was in danger if injuring his Arbeloa.
Therefore it is excessive force(according to fifa).
Therefore it is a red card.

The Franchise wrote:There was no "excessive force", not idea what your on about.

He didnt even make a tackle, he didnt even know he he as in a tackle.

If he knew it was a tackle, missed and got Arbeloa by accident..I would agree, red card.

But he didnt even know Arbeloa was there.

You can't show studs and have your foot be at chest level. Plenty of people have gotten seriously hurt because a player goes for that kind of play on the ball and doesn't realize he's late because another player comes from the side.

In fact, a St Etienne player got his knee blown out this week by a Nice player on a similar play where a forward was obviously trying to play the ball with a high boot showing studs. Didn't see the other player until the last second. Unfortunately in that case, the boot nailed the player right on the knee and it exploded. St Etienne player is out for a minimum of 6 months and you don't know how well he'll come back given that there's reconstruction involved.

Intent doesn't matter if the act is deemed a high injury risk. You don't want players to think they can do that even if no injury occurs. Leading with a high boot and studs showing is almost always a red if contact occurs with another player regardless of intent... in fact, i rarely see yellows given.

Lex wrote:Oh look, the Gettysburg Address 2.0 has already started over on Redcafe

http://www.redcafe.net/f7/cueneyt-cak-r-367287/

I don't know who is more sad, those people flaming a referee on a private forum or you as an Arsenal fan reading it.

Forza Rossoneri wrote:

The Franchise wrote:There was no "excessive force", not idea what your on about.

He didnt even make a tackle, he didnt even know he he as in a tackle.

If he knew it was a tackle, missed and got Arbeloa by accident..I would agree, red card.

But he didnt even know Arbeloa was there.

Of course he knew Arbeloa was there! You don't sprint for a ball and extend your leg to chest height just to control the ball.

I respectfully disagree. I think you do sprint to the ball because you want to reach it as fast as you can, they were under pressure and he wanted to get the ball and attack directly.

And the reason his leg was up, was again to get the ball quickly. When you play, dont you try and get the ball under control as quickly as possible when you dont know who is around you?

danyjr wrote:

Lex wrote:Oh look, the Gettysburg Address 2.0 has already started over on Redcafe

http://www.redcafe.net/f7/cueneyt-cak-r-367287/

I don't know who is more sad, those people flaming a referee on a private forum or you as an Arsenal fan reading it.

I'd say its' the fact that you support 3/4 teams and cycle through them like Mick Foley goes through personas

ACMRox wrote:

The Franchise wrote:There was no "excessive force", not idea what your on about.

He didnt even make a tackle, he didnt even know he he as in a tackle.

If he knew it was a tackle, missed and got Arbeloa by accident..I would agree, red card.

But he didnt even know Arbeloa was there.

Let's list exactly everything wrong with what Nani did:

1. High foot.
2. Cleat up.
3. Excessive force. And I by this, I mean you do not karate kick a ball to gain control of it. Nani viciously and excessively attacked that ball, in a manner that was reckless and unsafe.

That is why a red card is definitely an option. And although it did ruin the game for me, the ref had the right to make that decision. It was up to his discretion, and the choice he took was a perfectly valid one.

You may not like it, but it was a 50/50 call and there is nothing wrong with the referee's decision.

I disagree, all that becomes irrelevant when you consider he didnt know he was making a tackle.

Why do people here act like Madrid are always victims to bad referee calls and this is a big karma for Manchester United?
Why is your only self defence is bringing up Barcelona xD

Lex wrote:I'd say its' the fact that you support 3/4 teams and cycle through them like Mick Foley goes through personas

I don't. Nice try though.

@mamad : true, but actually looking at the highlights, its clear real dominated the game, it would have been an injustice had the not gone through . Though ofcourse i always want epl teams to do well

@the franchise, i dont know how kicking someone in the torso isnt excessive force and in any case it doesnt matter, it was violent conduct, it could have been a yellow but a red is well justified as well

If i understand correctly, you can do a roundhouse leg kick Bruce Lee style as long as you don't know another player's around and you're trying to play the ball. If someone happens to get in the way, that's tough luck on him.

Got it.

Be always unaware of your surroundings as it protects you from culpability.

It seems many people are asking me the same question, instead of quoting you all, you can refer to my posts to Forza and ACM, the same answer.

As I said, im bored talking about the decision. Going round in circles, I only keep coming back on the thread in the hope someone has an opinion on the actual game.

The Franchise wrote:

Forza Rossoneri wrote:

The Franchise wrote:There was no "excessive force", not idea what your on about.

He didnt even make a tackle, he didnt even know he he as in a tackle.

If he knew it was a tackle, missed and got Arbeloa by accident..I would agree, red card.

But he didnt even know Arbeloa was there.

Of course he knew Arbeloa was there! You don't sprint for a ball and extend your leg to chest height just to control the ball.

I respectfully disagree. I think you do sprint to the ball because you want to reach it as fast as you can, they were under pressure and he wanted to get the ball and attack directly.

And the reason his leg was up, was again to get the ball quickly. When you play, dont you try and get the ball under control as quickly as possible when you dont know who is around you?

However, Nani was not so oblivious to think that there was nobody around him. He knew that there was someone coming for the ball. And seeing as Arbeloa got to the ball first, he surely would have seen him.

In any case, this "intent" element is a higher standard than is necessary to be able to give the card.

Studs + hitting chest height.

That is enough to give the referee grounds to award the red card. In addition, the ball nowhere near the contact.

Edit: btw, my opinion on the rest of the game can be found on pg. 18 of this thread.

sportsczy wrote:If i understand correctly, you can do a roundhouse leg kick Bruce Lee style as long as you don't know another player's around and you're trying to play the ball. If someone happens to get in the way, that's tough luck on him.

Got it.

Come on Sport, give me more respect than this, I think I earnt that much no?

Nani's effort to control the ball was a normal one, players do it all the time, I see it every game.

A roundhouse kick, I usually never see.

I think I deserve a little more credit than that.

As far as the game... Man U parked the bus and countered while we tried to make the game. None of the Madrid forward line impressed me much (CR7, Ozil, Di Maria and Higuain). Higuain was playing very hard though and did make a couple of great centering balls. If you had to pick the best of them, it would be him.

Madrid doesn't know how to break a PTB team. It's been proven ad nauseum.

Madrid, midfield was meh as usual.

As far as the defense... very good first half. Second half was a bit more difficult. Man U never got clean plays to goal. But the 50/50 balls started mostly bouncing their way. I didn't like that a midfielder didn't pinch back to help sweep away some the loose balls.... they just sat there until either a CB or a forward got to it. Vidic was an absolute beast in the air. He was tightly marked too... but just fought his way to the ball. Lopez saved us.

I think La Liga teams have a hard time on set plays and physical play in the box in general. Why? You can't play tough and dirty in the box in La Liga. Too many things get called. In CL, the box is a "free zone". La Liga defenders try to play too clean, if that makes sense.

I don't really want to comment on the attacking game when it got to 10 v 11 because it's not very indicative. If you can't create chances against a team that is a man down, then you're not worth a thing.