Does Barca playing so well diminish Peps reputation?

barca 2011 wrote:Of course it doesn't diminish what pep did. When pep left we were all bummed out. But when Tito was announced as the new coach I think we all breathed a sigh of relief because it was evident that not much would change. He was peps right hand ffs. I'd still wait at least one season to even suggest that he might be diminishing pep.

On a side note its still lolworthy when some of you on here still don't rate pep as high, as if he didn't win a treble in his first season. Just cause he hasn't coached elsewhere smh.

People will claim that Barca should've won that treble due to the ref. #Inb4UEFAlonachantscome

Does Messi playing so much better under Tito dimish Peps reputation for "getting the most" out of Messi?

Se7en wrote:Does Messi playing so much better under Tito dimish Peps reputation for "getting the most" out of Messi?

How does Messi play better under Tito compared to Pep..?

Shouldnt it be the opposite? Guardiola came and took over an awful team(great players but the team was awful) that finished how many points behind Real Madrid(?)and made it a great team with great atmosphere and stability and once he left nothing change because he did such a great job?

Shouldnt that be praise?

I mean one of the complains towards Mou is that he will give you instant success but in the long term, once he leave the team will suffer...

Se7en wrote:Does Messi playing so much better under Tito dimish Peps reputation for "getting the most" out of Messi?

Messi was scoring hattricks in el clasico under rijkaard. He's been awesome since he was 19. Tbh it doesn't matter who's coaching him if you look at him individually. He's a goat so if anything he'll only keep improving.

Imo Barcelona dont need a manager, even a blind man can do the job.

Definitely.

VDB is doing the same thing in International football with essentially the same crop of players & that's without having the GOAT in his arsenal.

Are people on this forum mentally impaired. Pep IS the main reason Barcelona play the way the play. FFS go and watch the Barca B team before and after he took over. Go and watch Pique at United and at Barcelona. FFS even watch Valdes before and after pep. He brought new tactics and positioning to the team that was not previously there and he has aligned the youth team with the first team fulfilling decades of work. Pedro was about to be sold. Busquets was deemed not good enough.

Messi was getting injured every three weeks. Yes maybe a manager can come in and do the same job now because of the players know their roles and are now accustomed to delivering the things that PEP taught them to do. Pito was Pep's right hand man from the start and so he is carrying on the project stared in 2008 with Barcelona B.

The only coach that could possibly have delivered similar results is Cruyff. and that is pushing it because Pep had influences from multiple displines and coaches. So no. VDB is basically plagiarising his work ffs. Go and watch Spain under Aragones and watch Spain under VDB and tell me if they play the same way. I mean how dumb can this forum get? Go and watch XAvi in EUro 2008 and watch Xavi under VDB, same player right? What's the difference?

Valdes had quite a few blunders in 2008-09 jibers

BarrileteCosmico wrote:Valdes had quite a few blunders in 2008-09 jibers

Yes Valdes has consistentluy been shite, the difference is the consistent building from the back and the positioning of the defence when starting moves.

Aye Tito winning a few games > Pep's 14 trophies in 4 years.

Besides as Dani and Jibers have said Pep started all of this like Sacchi did for Milan Tito is an extension of the idea for consistent success.

Also the difference between Pep's ideas and Cruyff's ideas is like comparing the Pyramids to the Eiffel Tower ffs.

Watch Cruyff's dream team and compare it to Pep's Barca.... the advancements and ideas that Pep introducted would mean them absolutely trouncing them.

spain Won 2 Euro's in a row and may win 2nd WC in a row aswell. im wondering who is behind Spain's success.

like it or not, mainly its the players. and if you are going to say Spain is not like Barca ( as much entertaining and good ) i agree, they don't have Messi.

Mamad wrote:spain Won 2 Euro's in a row and may win 2nd WC in a row aswell. im wondering who is behind Spain's success.

like it or not, mainly its the players. and if you are going to say Spain is not like Barca ( as much entertaining and good ) i agree, they don't have Messi.

La Masia

Spain have some of Barca and Madrid's best players and some of the best players in the PL....

It's not a coincidence they do so well

It's not just Barca either..... Pretty sure Alonso, Ramos, Arbeloa, Capdevila, Torres, Senna, Silva, Cazorla, Casillas don't play for Barca and Villa and Alba didn't when they won with Spain.

Not to mention all the impact players like Navas among others

But it's all Barca apparently

Also pretty sure Barca finished 3rd and was battered by Guti and Gago in the Clasico and lost to Man Utd in the CL too the season before Pep...

But yeah it's all down to the players those awesome players who won more with Pep in charge than they probably since the Cruyff era.

The players below Villarreal bossed by Guti and Gago

Well here is the problem. its La Masia or Spains great squad overall?

and even if it's the great squad then it proves my point.

Some years ago i read somewhere that researchers found that coaches has 10% influence on the team's results. i think it's partly true, mainly because coaches can create any systems, use every tactics but if the player don't have needed quality there's no chance the coach can succeed, after all it's the player who does the job on the pitch.

Give Walsall FC to Pep and see what he can do lol.

I totally disagree with you and would even say the opposite... a coach has about 80% influence on a teams result. Because if a coach fails the team can be full of worldclass players and they lose.

negative examples: ManCity , they play way below their indiviudal skill. Chelsea -> fail , with this squad.
Wolfsburg lost almost every game with Magath,but more important every player played just about 20%...now with a new coach it seams like a new team

Bayern under vanGaal, he just couldn't get the team winning and playing good anymore -> coach changed 6 out of the 7 last games won.

What Klopp did with Dortmund is another example, without him they would nowhere near where they are atm.

Inter with Mourinho and without him... there a hundred examples that the coach has the biggest influence. When the coach is bad/not accepted by the players, a team fails

On the other hand, a good coach can improve a team with "no-names", for example Eintrach Frankfurt with Armin Veh.

It is the players, however it's Pep's tactics. Tiki taka, pressing, Messi as false 9 etc etc. Tito is just continuing Pep's tactics.

Barca may not be as good without those tactics.

Pedram wrote:Some years ago i read somewhere that researchers found that coaches has 10% influence on the team's results. i think it's partly true, mainly because coaches can create any systems, use every tactics but if the player don't have needed quality there's no chance the coach can succeed, after all it's the player who does the job on the pitch.

Give Walsall FC to Pep and see what he can do lol.

Come on, this should apply in both scenarios then. He's discredited because he was "given" the 08-12 barca team (that's the general thought anyways) but he's also expected to make a team of nobodies like Walsall fc into champions just to prove that possibly the best team of all time was no fluke? I agree that the team itself needs to have a certain degree of talent which is why I have no doubt that pep could make it at Chelsea, where he's mostly linked at but you guys gotta be trollin when you say stuff like that

Great Leader Sprucenuce wrote:Spain have some of Barca and Madrid's best players and some of the best players in the PL....

It's not a coincidence they do so well

It's not just Barca either..... Pretty sure Alonso, Ramos, Arbeloa, Capdevila, Torres, Senna, Silva, Cazorla, Casillas don't play for Barca and Villa and Alba didn't when they won with Spain.

Not to mention all the impact players like Navas among others

But it's all Barca apparently

Also pretty sure Barca finished 3rd and was battered by Guti and Gago in the Clasico and lost to Man Utd in the CL too the season before Pep...

But yeah it's all down to the players those awesome players who won more with Pep in charge than they probably since the Cruyff era.

The players below Villarreal bossed by Guti and Gago

LOL Come on Mole, you know better.

The answer here depends on the question for these people.

When was talk about Spain dominance, its not Barca, its them plus all the great players from Madrid et al.

Now we talking about Pep, the players are great and responsible for everything lol

Gotta hand out them left hooks now and again Dani....

Moal has to make sure he criticizes Barca every once in a while so that he's not seen as a closet Barca fan.

Which he is.

Iniesta, Busquets and Messi are playing better under Tito compared to how they played under Pep

Is Tito just the better manager or was Pep freeloading of all the talent his Barca team had

Discuss

Or do players just naturally improve as they approach their prime

I don't think they're playing better under Tito.

Yohan Modric wrote:I don't think they're playing better under Tito.

This.

Its more or less the same level.