Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only)

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Post by Jonathan28 Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:45 am

Ok, I created this thread in the Gen. section hoping for some intellectual discussion about what the two pictures below show but surprisingly, Madrid fans hijacked it and got the thread moved to the trolling section. Have I really been gone that long? Because 2-3 years ago that thread would have gone 20+ pages of good natured discussion before Cyberman and Feverpitch would come and de-rail it with their usual "La Liga defending is crap" rubbish and then Morph would lock it, ah the good times drinking . But lets move on.


Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only) 4454

Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only) Xkbs213

Looking at these two pictures you can clearly tell that Madrid players are either being told to make sure they have Messi in their sight at all time, or they are just that scared of him that they always end up being drawn to where he is. You will never find a greater example of a player drawing players out of position then this, especially the 1st picture. Thiago has soo much room to run it's frightning, I never noticed this until I re watched the game fore the 3rd time, and I still can't believe it.

I mean think about it, do people think that Mourinho ordered the Madrid players to leave that much room for the rest of the Barca team, because I highly doubt it. Messi may get a bit shut down by Madrid, but we can see why in these two pictures, and yet it benefits us as we sure last wednesday. Messi shut down, Cesc and Iniesta started creating the chances, especially Cesc with that lovely chipped pass to Sex which hit the post.

Saying that though, Messi has still been able to influence the game, line in the 2nd picture with basically the whole Madrid team being drawn to him, he was still able to get the pass in which set up Abidal's goal. If Madrid players had not been solely focused on Messi then they might have prevented that goal, quite easily in fact, but their fear of Messi will be their undoing. Plus, going by the club fans reaction in the original thread it's unlikely to change any time soon.

Not that i'm complaining of course. Razz


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Post by The Franchise Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:08 am

Yes well, they pay alot of attention to Messi because for years he has owned them.

I dont think this is why they lose exactly, I think there are various reasons for that but these cases are not great defensive phases for them.

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Post by The Verminator Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:27 am

I know this is only for Barce fans (If anyone wants to know why i come in this section rarely it's coz i like to see if there's anything posted about Fabregas Very Happy) but just wanted to say if the RM players don't pay as much attention to Messi, then he just tears them a new one. This is definetely a problem. However i think there may be a deeper cause to their losses and i'm sure Messi is involved in one way or another. But i can't really say too much because i don't always pay 100% attention to tactics in some matches....
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Post by Hamdyman Tue Jan 24, 2012 11:38 am

Well the way i see it is, Any team should take caution of the more realistic "THREAT" every second and handle that instead of everything else, with balance... Ofc Messi realistically can almost do anything hence teams give him (rightfully) more focus.

Cant blame them, if you mark Messi well or cut down his freedom :

A- he will get locked down for a huge chunk of the match

B- he will still outwit you, and dribble passed half the team to make them look like street cones.


Now, Madrid have tasted "B" more often, it would take real guts (and a George Bush like IQ) to not try and close his every intention down,

but another problem for any opponent of Barca's is that the movement with out the ball for basically 9 out of 11 players on the field is pretty darn "BRILLIANT" !!! :bow: And as we all know the ball is faster then a human, so i come to my conclusion that : Quality "No ball movement" + Quality Passing = WMD for any team including Mourinho's Madrid.

If Messi had not done it maybe Xavi would have or Cesc, Iniesta.. too many pass mastarzzzz !!!! Shocked
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Post by Jonathan28 Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:19 pm

The Verminator wrote:I know this is only for Barce fans (If anyone wants to know why i come in this section rarely it's coz i like to see if there's anything posted about Fabregas Very Happy) but just wanted to say if the RM players don't pay as much attention to Messi, then he just tears them a new one. This is definetely a problem. However i think there may be a deeper cause to their losses and i'm sure Messi is involved in one way or another. But i can't really say too much because i don't always pay 100% attention to tactics in some matches....

No problems man, I just put the Barca fans only thing there to prevent Madrid fans hijacking the thread, you can post all you want.
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Post by Jonathan28 Tue Jan 24, 2012 12:22 pm

Hamdyman wrote:Well the way i see it is, Any team should take caution of the more realistic "THREAT" every second and handle that instead of everything else, with balance... Ofc Messi realistically can almost do anything hence teams give him (rightfully) more focus.

Cant blame them, if you mark Messi well or cut down his freedom :

A- he will get locked down for a huge chunk of the match

B- he will still outwit you, and dribble passed half the team to make them look like street cones.


Now, Madrid have tasted "B" more often, it would take real guts (and a George Bush like IQ) to not try and close his every intention down,

but another problem for any opponent of Barca's is that the movement with out the ball for basically 9 out of 11 players on the field is pretty darn "BRILLIANT" !!! :bow: And as we all know the ball is faster then a human, so i come to my conclusion that : Quality "No ball movement" + Quality Passing = WMD for any team including Mourinho's Madrid.

If Messi had not done it maybe Xavi would have or Cesc, Iniesta.. too many pass mastarzzzz !!!! Shocked

This brings up an intresting dilemma which is whether Madrid should just forget all about Messi and just go for it. They have tried to stop him but all it does is leave room for the likes of Cesc and Iniesta to shine.

Madrid haven't really played attacking football except for in the 5-0, and I think that hurt them real bad. Mourinho may have to get over his fear of losing to Barca if he wants to beat us.
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Post by Harmonica Thu Jan 26, 2012 7:38 am

Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only) Di-MHWK

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Post by The Verminator Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:29 am

Was just looking at that. Messi is just a huge problem to them. They all run towards Messi and you got other players who are just free. And of course with his vision and dribbling, and close control, he will take advantage like he did. I really don't know how RM should deal with Messi......
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Post by The Franchise Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:41 am

There is no way for them to stop Messi without hindering their attack, it is and will remain their problem untill they get a better midfield.

Messi drops into the space Alonso is, we all know what happens then.

The only way to keep him from turning and running is to have 3 holding players in front of the ball 4. But by doing that, you cant play a number 10 and you cant press high up the pitch.
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Post by Babun Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:41 am

jiopsi wrote:Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only) Di-MHWK

Very Happy
First of all, Messi isn't the only reason we lost (one of the many). Lack of concentration at the back and pressing in midfield are some of them in previous clasicos.
Second, in your pic, Arbeloa lost Pedro on counterattack otherwise it wouldn't look so funny.
Third, Barca doesn't act any different towards CR7, Benz or Ozil whenever they get the ball in advantageous positions. In case of Ozil, two people double team him and one gets in front of him to make sure he can't pass. Proof?

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Post by Onyx Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:49 am

babun1024 wrote:
jiopsi wrote:Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only) Di-MHWK

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First of all, Messi isn't the only reason we lost (one of the many). Lack of concentration at the back and pressing in midfield are some of them in previous clasicos.
Second, in your pic, Arbeloa lost Pedro on counterattack otherwise it wouldn't look so funny.
Third, Barca doesn't act any different towards CR7, Benz or Ozil whenever they get the ball in advantageous positions. In case of Ozil, two people double team him and one gets in front of him to make sure he can't pass. Proof?

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Barca always surround the opposition players like that and press.

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Post by The Franchise Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:55 am

Obviously not the same thing.

As you can see, Barca players are not leaving loads of players (not leaving 1 player) to go stop Ozil.
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Post by Hamdyman Thu Jan 26, 2012 11:04 am

babun1024, now thats exactly how a team SHOULD cover grounds defensively. Thanks for showing us the great contrast here. Barca is pressuring Ozil on the right while NOT leaving spaces for other players to possibly receive a free ball in front of the goal.

Thats how it should be done! thanks.
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Post by messixaviesta Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:38 pm

The Franchise wrote:There is no way for them to stop Messi without hindering their attack, it is and will remain their problem untill they get a better midfield.

From where? Any ideas?

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Post by The Franchise Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:47 pm

Nowhere lol

Dont matter who they buy, they will have to beat us without being superior in that area.

They need to combine Alonso's ability on the ball with defensively skill of a prime Cambiasso to even think of allowing Messi to run 1 v 1 with a single holding player.

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Post by BarcaLearning Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:42 am

The Franchise wrote:There is no way for them to stop Messi without hindering their attack, it is and will remain their problem untill they get a better midfield.

Messi drops into the space Alonso is, we all know what happens then.

The only way to keep him from turning and running is to have 3 holding players in front of the ball 4. But by doing that, you cant play a number 10 and you cant press high up the pitch.

mtfootball wrote:
babun1024 wrote:
jiopsi wrote:Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only) Di-MHWK

Very Happy
First of all, Messi isn't the only reason we lost (one of the many). Lack of concentration at the back and pressing in midfield are some of them in previous clasicos.
Second, in your pic, Arbeloa lost Pedro on counterattack otherwise it wouldn't look so funny.
Third, Barca doesn't act any different towards CR7, Benz or Ozil whenever they get the ball in advantageous positions. In case of Ozil, two people double team him and one gets in front of him to make sure he can't pass. Proof?

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Barca always surround the opposition players like that and press.

The Franchise wrote:Nowhere lol

Dont matter who they buy, they will have to beat us without being superior in that area.

They need to combine Alonso's ability on the ball with defensively skill of a prime Cambiasso to even think of allowing Messi to run 1 v 1 with a single holding player.


Loool, well good thing that it will be very difficult for Real....

Some teams though do manage to make it harder for Messi and the team in general....examples Espanyol in the derby recently, Valencia, and occasionally teams who park the bus with a combo of pressing and precise quick counter attacks. In every case, they work out a formation where the midfield is also actively moving to structure so to limit the space for Messi to work with, or boss him off the ball as soon as he receives it...while not leaving acres of space for the others...it can be done, just very difficult and need Messi and co to have a bit of an off day...
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Post by Khaled Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:24 am

babun1024 wrote:
jiopsi wrote:Real Madrid's main problem when facing Barca(Barca fans only) Di-MHWK

Very Happy
First of all, Messi isn't the only reason we lost (one of the many). Lack of concentration at the back and pressing in midfield are some of them in previous clasicos.
Second, in your pic, Arbeloa lost Pedro on counterattack otherwise it wouldn't look so funny.
Third, Barca doesn't act any different towards CR7, Benz or Ozil whenever they get the ball in advantageous positions. In case of Ozil, two people double team him and one gets in front of him to make sure he can't pass. Proof?

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What did Ozil do in that pic? run towards Abidal & failed to dribble him.

Plus Its was very normal defending by Barca.. all players eye on the ball, each taking his normal position, very organized...

While in the above pic, Messi was surrounded by 3 players [Pepe, Ramos & Arbeloa] Lass & alonso behind him.. Which left Cesc, Pedro & Alexis Unmarked !! Messi with a great pass/assist for Pedro who scored the 1st Goal in the match!!

Comparing the 2 pics is a JOKE !

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